Is everyone racist? *thread split*

[Ender612]

I think that as humans, we instinctively divide the world into circles. There is "us" and "them". Our inner circles are closest to "us" and the concentric circles move ever outward into more "them." Whatever divides us and them could be anything. Where we grew up, what music we like, our MBTI personality, skin color, physical appearance, languages we speak or don't speak. It is within our human nature to see and note such differences. However, we can also learn to expand our circle of "us" due to things we learn that we have in common.

I'm not sure if that^ makes sense to anyone, but I think that because it's in our nature to divide between "us" and "them" everyone is prejudiced to some degree. We have natural proclivities, but how we act is (and should be) more than what we are naturally inclined to do, and we can learn to overcome and even change our proclivities.

I think racism's source is in the boundaries of those circles of us and them. Depending on the way you look at, we're all racist to some degree, and as we eradicate the overt forms of racism, we see the less overt forms...As you tear down mountains, the hills look so much bigger. I think we've made progress, but there is always progress to be made.

People still do make unconscious (or subconscious) judgments based on race, and stereotypes (both good and bad), and a lot of these are influenced by the media, and some are based on distorted facts.

If you look in most any person's physical heart, there are small plaques and obstructions (they start when you're a kid), if you look in any person's body over the course of their life there are little microtumors. But, there is a difference between small plaques and microtumors that the body can deal with and heart-attack causing lesions, and cancerous malignant tumors.

That was all over the place, I hope it makes some sense.

 

[arbygil]

*Agrees with Zen Cat*

I think we need to back off of the "power words" too. "Racist" is a very, very strong word that very few people will accept. Even on stormwatch.org people will claim not to be racist, when all definitions would point to the opposite.

I think "preference" is the word you're looking for. Do we have preferences? Sure we do. In my dating pool, I have a preference for White men. I'd rather date White men than Black men (I am Black, BTW). That's my preference. Would I date a Black man if he was everything I ever wanted? Sure I would! But my first inclination isn't to look in that direction.

Words can be extremely volatile, and sometimes softening what we say can bring about the truth more than a harsh word or harsh definition.

 

[Poetic Justice]

I think that as humans, we instinctively divide the world into circles. There is "us" and "them". Our inner circles are closest to "us" and the concentric circles move ever outward into more "them." Whatever divides us and them could be anything. Where we grew up, what music we like, our MBTI personality, skin color, physical appearance, languages we speak or don't speak. It is within our human nature to see and note such differences. However, we can also learn to expand our circle of "us" due to things we learn that we have in common.

This is exactly what I am talking about. I know this happens but my "us" has never been anything to do with any culture, race or anything like that. My "us" is moral people. I have always been confused by people who's "us" is anything other than this. I assumed that this was an INFJ trait but now I see that it is not.

And I gurantee you there are other people who take an even stronger stance on this than me. So not everyone is racist.

 

[ZenCat]

I think arbygil's appeal for us to be cognizant of the "power words" we use was incredibly valuable. I hope everyone reads it.

The word "Racist" can not be construed to be anything other than derogatory (see dictionary/thesaurus references below). Telling someone they are in denial because they refuse to accept someone's attempt to label them in a derogatory way with a derogatory term is adding insult to injury. Perhaps it would be useful to consider other possibilities.

If you read the definitions for what constitutes a Racist or Racism below, you can clearly see why many of us decline to be labeled as Racist.

For instance... I think; therefore I am. Racism is wrong. I will not be a racist, and I will never behave in a way that could be construed as supportive of racism; therefore I am not a racist. I do not make racist remarks. I have never discriminated against anyone based on their skin color or national origin. I have never once considered myself superior to anyone else based on skin color or national origin. I have never supported or fostered the belief that my race is superior and have in fact spoken out against the fostering of this belief when it occurred around me since I was a child.

I have no hatred or intolerance of any race.

How, then, am I a racist?

From Dictionary.com

racist
adjective1. based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2. discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion
noun1. a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others

rac·ism (rā'sĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

rac⋅ism

   /ˈreɪ

sɪz

əm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uh

m] Show IPA Pronunciation
—noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

From Thesaurus.com

Main Entry: racist Part of Speech: adjective Definition: bigoted Synonyms: anti-Semitic, biased, illiberal, intolerant, narrow-minded, opinionated, partial, prejudiced, sectarian, small-minded, xenophobic

Main Entry: racist Part of Speech: noun Definition: bigot Synonyms: anti-Semite, black supremacist, chauvinist, diehard, doctrinaire, fanatic, klansperson, opinionated person, prejudiced person, sectarian, segregationist, sexist person, white supremacist, xenophobe

 

[Poetic Justice]

The problem is that this thread is called "is everyone racist". So by definition it is accusing people of racism. I think it might be for the best if we agree to disagree and lock this thread.

 

[alcyone]

This is another occasion where the erosion of the language has caused problems in our interactions.

Racist, racism

Discriminatory, discriminate

prejudiced, prejudge

stereotypical, stereotype

preferential, perference

All of these terms come from the same family grouping so to speak. But all of them alude to a different level of intensity. As well as assoicated differing behaviors and reactions.

Is it correct to say everyone is a little bit racist? NO! Read the provided definitions of racism. That definition will not fit everyone as it refers to overt actions and responses. Racism implies some sort of physical malevolence towards that which is resented.

Discriminatory? No. Again, this involves actual action. Choices made to exclude another based on some characteristic we find distasteful.

Stereotypical and prejudging. This comes closer to something we all do internally and on an instinctual level. I am not saying that is it right, however it is natural and it is not wrong. It is an instinctual behavior likely developed to aid primitive man to quickly identify when he is in a dangerous situation and stimulate the fight/flight response. Fact is, this is an internal physical process. Curbing the fight/flight is what our higher brain functions are for. To check these impulses until we can objectively and rationally respond to whatever stimulus is initiating it. As there is so much more 'danger' that we've created for ourselves, the impulses are still there, but not refined in such a manner that they can process exactly what is a threat and what isn't.

 

[arbygil]

I vote not to close the thread, Poetic Justice, only because this is still a learning opportunity for all. Is the title inflammatory? Yes. But does it make the topic any less worthy for discussion? I don't think so. The question "is everyone racist" is being answered, albeit in different ways.

The words may have been a little harsh, but I think we're handling it like adults.

Aren't we?

 

[ZenCat]

I think it's being handled very well by the majority of the participants :thumb:

 

[alcyone]

Of course...there can always be a disiplinary session called in the Tree House Rub Room....

 

[ZenCat]

Of course...there can always be a disiplinary session called in the Tree House Rub Room....

I confess! I confess! I'm... I'm... whatever you say! Just please PLEASE don't make me go to the Rub Room! PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME GO!

*hang onto doorframe for dear life* *gibber* *void bladder*

 

[moonbabyam]

I just know that by me myself, claiming my own inherent unconscious brainwashed racism that I have been able to be more open. It is all a matter of linguistics and who thinks what about what word. My reference point is a book that changed my life about how all beings are inherently racist because there are differences in our physical and mental entities that often confuse us and keep us from full understanding of one another. Call it "preference" but even there someone gets hurt, if you turn down someone because they arnt the color you "prefer" that person is still hurt, and chances are probably considers it racist even if you don't.
I appreciate the metaphorical doobie, and will always be greatful but unfortunatly a great part of my life has been burdened by others stigmas conscious and unconscious, and my OPINION (which I consider deeply educated) will still remain that until no one cares until what another person looks like, and until everyone can be treated the same no matter what their skin color or other "difference" im still going to believe everyone to be inherently and with out question burdened with racism as an element of their identities.
And Ill also stand behind my influence. Read the book. It CHANGED my life.

 

[Poetic Justice]

until no one cares until what another person looks like, and until everyone can be treated the same no matter what their skin color or other "difference" im still going to believe everyone to be inherently and with out question burdened with racism as an element of their identities.

What you describe here is what is needed for racism to not exist at all. It undoubtably exists, but some people don't care what people look like, Some people do treat everyone the same.

You say until no one does this you will believe that everyone does this. Does this not sound like a contradiction?

 

[arbygil]

Moonbaby, I respect what you've placed, and I know what you're saying. Really, I do. If it's the same author I'm thinking of (Tim Wise), I may have followed along with his blog for some time, though I haven't read his book. And to be perfectly honest? I appreciate that he's speaking up about it, but he's speaking to a specific class of folks who have never considered what race really means, at the core.

Being black, I *do* have assumptions about people based on my experiences with them, but I always put those assumptions on the back burner and choose to see each person as an individual until they prove me wrong. The book touched something deep inside you, and that's both commendable and respectful. Your experience was mindblowing and completely eye-opening.

BUT.

You cannot assume that all people are less enlightened than you are. You cannot make judgments on all men, based on the writing of one man. I love Tim Wise, and I love what he's declaring and saying. But you can't assume everyone is either A)at the place where you are in your learning development of race and racism or B)People are all bigoted and are ignoring what you're saying.

What I'd like you to do, if you can, is to look at this in a bigger sense. The fight has been going on for centuries. If people are bigoted and racist, one book is not going to change their minds. If people have softened hearts and have learned much and are already healing, this book will only have them going, "yes and amen."

The truly ignorant, those who have never looked at other cultures or sought to understand them, should probably be your target audience. I can't be certain, but I feel that this forum isn't your target audience. I feel you, I really do. And I understand what you're trying to do. But instead of opening eyes to truth, you're shutting them to your words.

 

[Freedom]

I think racism relates to race (white, black, asian, red, etc) and sometimes we tend to put every misconception in the same pot; i.e. tagging someone as racist, when there are other areas of misjudgement (sexism, religious misconceptions, geographic misjudgement and so and so). It seems like the thread is mixing everything in the "racism" room

 

[Poetic Justice]

yes, If you've read the whole thread you'll see that it is the American Government that has been discussed more than anything else. But I think the most recent evolution of this topic is in fact about black/white/asian etc

 

[Freedom]

Hi Poetic Justice, you're right, I didn't read the whoooole five pages thread, I just wanted to point out that racism is not the same as sexism, lack of world culture, religious inolerance, etc. I know, though, that some of us already did the job of informing people, including giving the dictionary meaning of race, racism and racist, which is awsome! I find though that the subject on race is much stronger debatable in the US than it is in other parts of the world. I'm not from the US, and I really find hard to understand the whole race thing that I see (mostly) in the Midia. I don't get to see much ado about race IRL, but I live in FL, so maybe people here are more opened minded? Just a guess, though...

 

[Lurker]

No, I am meaning racisit, as the book White Privilige does, to explain a broad approach to discrimination. It pertains not only to race, but gender, ethnicity, religion, sexuality, income, age and other society influenced norms that are deviated from. Everyone is racist, even in 3rd world countries where indigenous people form negative opinions of white men who come and f-up their land, those people are also racist even though they themselves are being oppressed. I only mention that Im a soc major b/c it is where my life is CONSUMED right now, I haven't read a book for fun in years and this is all I seem to be thinking about 24/7. The past 3 years of my life I have spent nights in tears thinking about this topic, how I've been brainwashed as well as everyone else. You can be mother flippin teresa and be a racist because you attain privilige due to your status and you don't turn it down. When we neglect to admit that when are all racist that is a problem. I don't do this whole "well not every one is..." because that is not the way it works. WE JUDGE PEOPLE. Every freaking day, WE ALL JUDGE PEOPLE. As americans we all help contribute to revolution (sometimes good or bad)
AND
UNCONSCIOUS FORMS OF OPPRESSION OF PEOPLE IN LOWER STATUSES OR OF DIFFERING GROUPS. If you don't admit to it, then you haven't embraced it, arn't ready to change it, and you can never really understand the stance of someone else. We have to embrace that in order to be an ally to others, we can't assume we know anything about the experience of someone else and when we try to put our conceptulization on it and then they get frustrated when you don't understand, well then...you see what I mean. AGAIN READ THE BOOK!!!!! I don't claim to know anything, but I do understand this and believe this. We are all racist, if you don't like the word think of something else, Im using the linguistic b/c it came from the book, and it's definition is bigger than the one is being put on it.

Honestly most of your post sounds the same as someone trying to convert non believers to a religion to me, as in

“If you don't admit to it, then you haven't embraced it, arn't ready to change it, and you can never really understand the stance of someone else”​

All that says to me is you are not prepared to hear other perspectives because you can justify any difference of opinion as ignorance.

What's more, people are responding directly to your posts and rather than addressing their points you're simply saying the same thing over and over again. I don’t want to read a book that claims everyone is racist. Privilege and judgement are not racism, read their definitions.

 

[Lurker]

We can discuss this as passionately as we want, but please try to refrain from saying things like...

"You're a racist"
"You're a sexist"

or other offensive judgments (which are clearly not in jest) directly to another member in the discussion. There are plenty of other ways to phrase your position and voice your feelings without getting personal.

This request comes as per the Forum Rules:

1. No Personal Attacks
This is when another member's character or circumstances is attacked rather than the statements they made. Ad hominem attacks and personal insults are not tolerated on this forum. Exceptions may be made for context and posts meant as lighthearted jokes. The decision of judging intent falls upon moderators and admins and their decisions are final. Personal attacks, harassment, name calling, and posts which serve no purpose other than to flame other members will not be tolerated. Do not troll, bait members, or purposefully cause annoyance and disharmony. This is a community that thrives on getting along.

Btw, anyone attacking others will be banned from the thread.

 

[moonbabyam]

Its hard to get back to these when reading is being done else where. See post in character section. Im in no way claiming I am perfect, better than anybody or anything that might entice some of you to believe I am trying to play a holier than thou role. Maybe Im coming off judgmental but somebody has to. I believe I have stated my point more than once. I don't see a need to do it again. (even though it looks like im gonna)
If you catch on to what I am trying to say, as uneloquent as it may be...great. If you don't well then I don't see any need to argue or post more posts annoying others on my personal, relatively educated opinion from a liberal arts college.
Part of the problem is that people are too afraid to hear the truth, or even admit to it. Beat around the bush all you want to but it isn't going to change anything.
Again, my apologies if I come off like a raving bitch, but this is something that is dear to my heart and until racisim ends, and people stop being hypocrites (which the wont, because if i havent...others havent) then I will drop my claim that every one is racist. But until then. I stand firm.
PS...Im not white. Not that, that should make a difference but if you are...then you want to understand why I feel so strongly then it is relative to the point. I've had my fair share of discrimination because I am a multiethnic female, please don't render my experiences- with individuals that claim "im not racist" and then pull passive racist bull shit-invisible. I've had it happen my whole life and so have many many many other people.
It's painful, It hurts, It's unconscious and it ruins individuals lives.

 

[Motor Jax]

In the Words of Foamy