Is everyone racist? *thread split*

[dylan]

America isn't the democracy it claims to be.

Exactly... part of the pretense. And following out of that - doesn't it then fall to us, we the citizens, to reform our government and create a better democracy? I mean, we (the citizens) certainly can't get rid of the pretense and present ourselves honestly, because we don't have the power. The "image" of the US is controlled, as you say, by "those who run the major corporations," who just happen to be bedfellows with those who run our government.

This is teetering on the brink of a conversation about mass media that I'm not really ready to get into right now...

I think I could create a better strategy for a more worthwhile goal.

I'm sure you could! (What's the goal?)

... We are not all bad, and we should not consent to be lumped together with the worst of our countrymen, especially by those who may embrace a hatred of America and Americans which is based on only a partial understanding of how this country came into being, and how incredibly diverse the population is.

ZC, I totally agree with you, on all that (even the part I didn't quote). And I don't really feel bad personally.

In my travels outside of the US, on more than one occasion I have met people and had great conversations and experiences with them, and only after we've bonded does it come up that I'm American. For some reason or other they don't pick up on the American accent, and think I'm either from the UK or Australia, and they are shocked to find out I'm American.

I love being that emissary, dispelling stereotypes. But I still feel embarrassed by the actions of the "worst of our countrymen," in the way you feel embarrassed when you're in a group of people and someone puts their foot in their mouth. You didn't say it, yet you still feel a little awkward. Especially if you are associated in some way with the person who put their foot in their mouth.

 

[Shai Gar]

I'm sure you could! (What's the goal?

To create an empire that has universal health care, infrastructure (including repair), universal sufferage, Malem In Se, Prohibitum separated justice systems, Education and an International Dominating Trade system.

 

[arbygil]

In my travels outside of the US, on more than one occasion I have met people and had great conversations and experiences with them, and only after we've bonded does it come up that I'm American. For some reason or other they don't pick up on the American accent, and think I'm either from the UK or Australia, and they are shocked to find out I'm American.

I love being that emissary, dispelling stereotypes. But I still feel embarrassed by the actions of the "worst of our countrymen," in the way you feel embarrassed when you're in a group of people and someone puts their foot in their mouth. You didn't say it, yet you still feel a little awkward. Especially if you are associated in some way with the person who put their foot in their mouth.

Me too, Dylan. I love to travel, although I've mostly traveled in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and the UK. But I also loved the conversations I had. But this was all pre-911, and so much has changed since then. I'd still like to go back, though. Maybe I'll visit Japan, Africa, and the Middle East.

I had more interesting questions, though - about my identity as a black woman in the US. It was funny; people seemed to accept me more because I *was* an American who happened to be black. But that's another story.

I wonder if Obama will help change the perceptions people have of us?

 

[dylan]

Maybe I'll visit Japan, Africa, and the Middle East.

Do it! Do it! I've been to Japan (and it rocks! Nihon ichiban!), but I'd looove to check out many parts of Africa. And the Middle East, but maybe I'll wait for certain things to cool down before I head there...

I had more interesting questions, though - about my identity as a black woman in the US. It was funny; people seemed to accept me more because I *was* an American who happened to be black. But that's another story.

What do you mean exactly by you had more interesting questions? Questions came up in your own mind, or other people had questions for you? Because yeah, that is a whole other thing - the issue of race/ethnicity on top of, or intertwined with, the issue of nationality, especially because of the multi-ethnic composition of the US population, and the history of how some of those ethnicities came to be present in the US. There's a lot there, it's big.

Hey, we got any grad students in here? I got years of work for ya...

I wonder if Obama will help change the perceptions people have of us?

I certainly hope so. He alluded to such in some of the comments he made during the debates. In some ways I think he already has, or rather we have, by electing him...

 

[TheLastMohican]

What I'm talking about is thoughts like, "People who move to America should learn to speak English." That's very racist.

No it isn't. People of all races move to America, and saying that they should learn to speak English is saying nothing about their races or countries of origin. It is a simple statement of what is best. If a person moves here and never speaks to a citizen, then I guess it's fine to know no English, but if one plans to rely on verbal communication, then one should not expect the citizens of whatever country to speak one's own language if it is different from the standard language of said country.

Perhaps what you are inferring from the statement is that we think less of those who did not learn English earlier, but that is not the case. Native language is irrelevant. What matters is the practicality of functioning in a country without knowing the native language, and too often people expect American citizens to go to great pains to accommodate a foreign language, unfairly so IMO. This matters most when it comes to the government, which is responsible for communicating important information to citizens, and cannot be expected to translate everything to all the languages spoken by various immigrants.

 

[Ender612]

Hey, we got any grad students in here? I got years of work for ya...

I don't need anymore years of work, but thanks, really...because grad students aren't abused enough.

 

[dylan]

To create an empire that has universal health care, infrastructure (including repair), universal sufferage, Malem In Se, Prohibitum separated justice systems, Education and an International Dominating Trade system.

Rocking! Except I cringe at words like "empire" and "dominating"...

 

[dylan]

I don't need anymore years of work, but thanks, really...because grad students aren't abused enough.

No, I meant, you know, for someone who hadn't yet figured out what they were going to spend years working on...

 

[arbygil]

Do it! Do it! I've been to Japan (and it rocks! Nihon ichiban!), but I'd looove to check out many parts of Africa. And the Middle East, but maybe I'll wait for certain things to cool down before I head there...

Lol! Yeah, I was thinking about that too. And I might have to wear a burkha or other similar clothing for some areas, but I'm totally interested in visiting the culture. I don't think the fervor will ever completely die down, but there are probably some places safer than others. Going to Afghanistan? Probably not. But Saudi Arabia or the UAE? Sure!

I'll probably have to put off traveling for the future, though. I'm currently poor as a churchmouse.

What do you mean exactly by you had more interesting questions? Questions came up in your own mind, or other people had questions for you? Because yeah, that is a whole other thing - the issue of race/ethnicity on top of, or intertwined with, the issue of nationality, especially because of the multi-ethnic composition of the US population, and the history of how some of those ethnicities came to be present in the US. There's a lot there, it's big.

Hey, we got any grad students in here? I got years of work for ya...

Lol! You just about covered it. Just about every pub I visited in Ireland and Scotland (now, this was back in the early and mid 90s, and things have drastically changed since then), people were enthralled with either my hair (I had braids back then) or my cultural history. I was asked questions about slavery, about reparations, and the 1960s. Many of the Irish strongly identified with the African American civil rights movement in the 60s - and one book I read implied that both cultures borrowed from each other to create their civil movements (African American culture borrowed from the 1930s Irish Rebellion, and the Irish Nationals borrowed from the 1960s...etc). I really enjoyed the conversations. Man, I really wanted to marry me an Irish man back then.

Still do.

Ahem. Eeeenny, way...

I certainly hope so. He alluded to such in some of the comments he made during the debates. In some ways I think he already has, or rather we have, by electing him...

I think the strides will be far more positive, in any case. People around the world were celebrating when he won. I think we would've had outright riots - both at home and abroad - if he'd lost.

 

[Shaz]

On a side note, I think ignorance is as big a crime as racism. When someone assumes something about a culture based on media, family, peer, (mis)education or what have you, and they voice that assumption, they can be viewed as racists when in reality they're just stupid.

YES!!! Thank you for saying that!!

Of course education is an issue as well. It costs money and time to educate, and in a lot of places it is still a luxury. But if everybody could be somewhat educated (not by propaganda) people would be so much more respectful of each other. I don't know. Hatred is something that will sprout in an uneducated mind so easily. People simplify everything, it's so tempting. It's so much easier to blame others.

It's true you guys have such a huge country it is a completely different story... I know it's not about America, it's about imperialism, we've had the same in our old days. And self righteousness was dominant too. (where is the throwing up monkey????!!)

on a side note : both current directors of the IMF AND WTO are French guys (both left wingers, though it surprises me that the WTO director would be a socialist, how can that work?)

 

[moonbabyam]

<~~~~Sociology (BA working on MA) Major. WE ARE ALL RACIST. Read "White Privilige" It is the best book ever. As a multiethnic woman...I will once again say we are all racist and those of who you don't admit to it are not admitting to the privilige that you do have and don't pay attention to. ESPECIALLY if you are a white male. I don't mean to come off preachy but that is just the way it is.

 

[Lurker]

Experiencing privilege or lack of bigotry because you are part of the majority race of an area does not mean you are racist against others.

Are people using a different definition of racism?

• The prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.
• Discriminatory or abusive behaviour towards members of another race.
• Racism, by its simplest definition, is discrimination based on the racial groups to which people belong. People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups. 

The following things are not racist; Noticing differences, racial stereotypes, treating different people differently, being part of the majority race UNLESS any of these result in someone discriminating against, acting superior to, or hating others because their race is different.


Are people discriminated against because of their race? Yes, every day. Does this mean everyone is racist? No.

 

[ZenCat]

I just don't understand the concept that EVERYONE can be racist. EVERYONE is a lot of people, since the dawn of mankind.

Take for example a young woman from a self-sustaining nomadic tribe somewhere. She's never had a TV or a radio. She's never read a newspaper, possibly has never read a novel. She spends the vast majority of her life with her family or extended family, who are also isolated from the sociologic cares of our modern world.

Is she racist?

Are those who are blind racist? Are those with Downs Syndrome or Autism racist?

Was Mother Teresa a racist? Is Thich Nhat Hahn a racist? Was Jesus?

 

[Lurker]

^ don't have to go that far Zen, I'm not isolated, blind, mentally disabled or any kind of saint and I am not racist. I do not treat people poorly based on their race, creed, gender or sexuality, nor do I consider myself better than anyone who is different to me simply because they are different. I treat people in accordance with their words and actions.

 

[TheLastMohican]

<~~~~Sociology (BA working on MA) Major. WE ARE ALL RACIST.
...
ESPECIALLY if you are a white male.

Now that sounds like a racist-sexist comment: assuming that white males are more racist than others. Given your bias, do you think you are qualified to judge the biases of others?



(BTW, I think Japan might be the most racist country on earth, due to the culture.)

 

[Ender612]

I'm a black male *gasp*. I'm not going to say every one is racist. I think everyone has the capacity for racism, but since I'm more of a flow with the go kind of person, I may call people on their overt ridiculous stereotypes and garbage, but some of the lesser stuff, the stuff that they may not even realize their doing, I'll prove them wrong gently.

In 5th grade someone once came up to me after the year was over and said, when I first saw you, I didn't think you'd be smart at all. I was wrong. Was that racism? Maybe. Does she think that way anymore? Not after my spelling bee performances .

To the idiot who followed my sister and I in the store because we looked suspicious...you're losing business, you're not helping people who need help and wasting time preventing a crime that would never happen. Good Job, I'm sure your boss was really happy that you stopped the two black preteens from making off with your crappy souvenirs.

To the idiot who thought my Ph.D. father was the parking attendant. Be very glad my dad is rational and calm, and he stopped me from showing you how stupid you are by using words you don't understand, and maybe following up with a shove or two that you might understand.

^ don't have to go that far Zen, I'm not isolated, blind, mentally disabled or any kind of saint and I am not racist. I do not treat people poorly based on their race, creed, gender or sexuality, nor do I consider myself better than anyone who is different to me simply because they are different. I treat people in accordance with their words and actions.

I think that's the way to go...treating people according to their words and actions, whether or not they fit into the stereotype.
Will every person do this all the time? Probably not, but if it's on your mind, and the urge comes up to start making assumptions based on skin color alone (not such things as body language and posture and words and actions, and carrying of weapons or textbooks), then you just have to stop and wait for the person to act before you go down that road any further.

 

[AntoniaDodge]

I'm a black male *gasp*.

You shouldn't gasp at the phrase 'black male'. You sound racist.

 

[Ender612]

You shouldn't gasp at the phrase 'black male'. You sound racist.

But, I'm not...my life would be really really hard if I were racist (against black males ). I'll remove the gasp if it'll make you feel more comfortable..but first my reasoning...

The gasp was because usually, I'm not in the majority, so it may come as a slight statistical surprise [alliteration woohoo!] (unless you've seen my picture)...and because I wanted everyone to know, that I'm not actually a marmoset.
The gasp was also a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor. Because I know the last thing that would happen on this form is "A black male *gasp* everybody run!!"


So that's my trident (my three-pronged reasoning) for gasping. I hope that clears it up a bit.

 

[AntoniaDodge]

"A black male *gasp* everybody run!!"

You did it again!

I think you need sensitivity classes.

 

[arbygil]

I think she was yankin' your chain, Ender!

It's an interesting argument - are we all racist, or is that a guilt-perpetuated motif? I think it's easier to say we all have preferences which can lead to prejudices.

For example, I prefer sharp cheddar cheese, and I have a preference for cheddar. But if it's a question of either having cheese on my sandwich that isn't cheddar, or no cheese at all, I'll take whatever's available. But I'm *prejudiced* against processed cheese food. I refuse to eat that stuff, and I'll avoid it at any cost because I think it's fake cheese. But my prejudice for processed cheese food changed when I found an organic processed cheese (American cheese) that I actually liked.

Heh. Take that as you will...but insert people for cheese, and you'll see where I'm going.

Except I don't know any processed cheese people. Everyone is sharp cheddar, or other.:hippie:

And now I'm hungry. Lunch time!