My case that America is not the greatest country on earth...

[Solongo]

I am very well aware of that. However there is a correlation, it shows that those who 'fail' are more inclined to disslike their country.


Haha theres also Oprah Winfrey! But he is a great symbol yes, I would think that he does a hell of a good job in making others hopeful and appreciative too.



That makes sense! Here it is native born as well although specifically Muslims are not allowed.



Yes but haven't you learned ? Take the good with bad, and smile when you're sad

America is not built on appreciation. Its built on greed and doubt and slavery.Obama is just a poster child. So is Oprah. Having only two decent african americans as role models is sad example.

Republicans tried to discredit Obama as being born in Hawaii...

Smiling when you're miserable is non-INFJ-ish

 

[Kavalan]

I want to make a general observation...

Since when did disagreeing with the government or how things are run become unpatriotic? I'm American and I'm damn well proud of it. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else and I'd die for this nation if I thought the fight was justified. My America is not land of the 'sheep people'. I refuse to blindly follow what I disagree with and expect other people to do the same. If you agree with what ever, good for you. Other people don't and they have every right not to. That's what makes this nation great. We're fucking free to think and speak on our own behalf. We are a nation of people that was built for the people. Our voices should never be silent.

when the parties voices became the main voice... and when people stopped listening to both sides of the argument... and in recent times the voices of the crazy corner in each party got the main mic and stated blathering became our biggest problem...

 

[Solongo]

I don't know but I was comparing to Sweden, where a Muslim prime minister is not allowed (we don't have a president).


But those are not the same to what America is to the world in this time. I think America is a hopeful to the world, either loved or hated.

America is a sly predator in the world scene. You don't become the best by being nice and giving out cookies.

 

[Stu]

I voted in Tuesdays election even though there was only one issue and a representative at large office on the school board to be decided. I love to vote. Those who do not exersize that right at every opportunity SUCK

 

[TheLastMohican]

America is not built on appreciation. Its built on greed and doubt and slavery.Obama is just a poster child. So is Oprah. Having only two decent african americans as role models is sad example.

Where did you get the idea that Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey are the only "decent African Americans" in the public eye?

Republicans tried to discredit Obama as being born in Hawaii...

You mean Kenya?

 

[NeverAmI]

when the parties voices became the main voice... and when people stopped listening to both sides of the argument... and in recent times the voices of the crazy corner in each party got the main mic and stated blathering became our biggest problem...

Kav you are always an excellent voice of reason, glad to have ya on these forums!

 

[Stu]

America is a sly predator in the world scene. You don't become the best by being nice and giving out cookies.

unless your and ambitious and seductive and you give out cookies in bed.

 

[Solongo]

Where did you get the idea that Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey are the only "decent African Americans" in the public eye?


Please name decent African American figures that made a difference to the country at large. If you can name ten. Then I'll shut up. And they have to be people we all know.

 

[bamf]

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Harriet Tubman
Sojourner Truth
Frederick Douglass
Maclom X
Jackie Robinson
Richard Wright
Colin Powell
Thurgood Marshall

hell...even

Tyra Banks

 

[Solongo]

Colin Powell? Didn't he get us into war then quit later?

Definitely not Tyra Banks. Plus mixed African Americans count?

Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Harriet Tubman
Sojourner Truth
Frederick Douglass
Maclom X
Jackie Robinson
Richard Wright
Colin Powell
Thurgood Marshall

hell...even

Tyra Banks

 

[Pristinegirl]

America is not built on appreciation. Its built on greed and doubt and slavery.Obama is just a poster child. So is Oprah. Having only two decent african americans as role models is sad example.

Republicans tried to discredit Obama as being born in Hawaii...

Smiling when you're miserable is non-INFJ-ish

America was founded on great things like liberty and 'in god we trust'. However, contradictory to liberty there is a very unfortunate history of slavery. Though I really don't think we should hold the generation of today responsible for something horrible their ancestors did. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that it is built on doubt?

There are not only two, those were two examples. Who are you to judge that they are poster children anyway? Is it so hard to believe that they could in fact appreciate their country?

I think you missunderstood 'smile when you're sad', because the motif is that if you smile long enough when you are sad, the sadness eventually goes away!

 

[Quinlan]

Muhammad Ali

 

[bamf]

Colin Powell? Didn't he get us into war then quit later?

Definitely not Tyra Banks. Plus mixed African Americans count?

Um...what? Colin Powell quit because he didn't support the war.

And Tyra Banks definitely made a statement for the power of black women and that black can be just as beautiful as white. Why should it matter if she wasn't 100% black?

 

[Pristinegirl]

Everyone is forgetting Michael Jackson!!!!

 

[Lucifer]

BS, the American dream has ALWAYS been an individual dream per person. Pretending it isn't is asinine.

Not really the "American Dream" has always been a rather specific term referring to a specific set of ideals.

The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position. Epic of America James Tuslow Adams

That being said the American dream isn't disagreeable at all. What ticks me off is that people seem to think that America is uniquely able to achieve this dream, that it is the responsibility of Americans to guide backward peoples toward this dream, and that the American system is the only way to achieve this dream. It is simply odd to think that certain persons think this ideal is already manifest.

 

[Solongo]

America was founded on great things like liberty and 'in god we trust'. However, contradictory to liberty there is a very unfortunate history of slavery. Though I really don't think we should hold the generation of today responsible for something horrible their ancestors did. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that it is built on doubt?

There are not only two, those were two examples. Who are you to judge that they are poster children anyway? Is it so hard to believe that they could in fact appreciate their country?

I think you missunderstood 'smile when you're sad', because the motif is that if you smile long enough when you are sad, the sadness eventually goes away!

Doubt is questioning the status quo of things. The men who left england had the courage to doubt what was established in their native England and brought this amazing gift to America. Thats why I can sit in this foruma nd debate with you pristinegirl...there is no need to get edgy over this.

Slavery was not "unfortunate"..it was intentional because it created business for growing states, giving power and wealth to white men.

You have to understand your history to move forward.

I have the right to judge public figures...thats what public figures are for and they put themselves in the spotlight and in front of everyone.

They do appreciate their country. I never debated about their unappreciative attitude. In fact they appreciate America more because they it helped them get where they act. I don't know how relevant this is to what we were debating about.

 

[Entyqua]

BS, the American dream has ALWAYS been an individual dream per person. Pretending it isn't is asinine.

My individual dreams can be met anywhere...The American dream is just and NAI said...Propaganda...a fallacy...a way to bring more tax payers into this country to drain them dry...No...it is not the individuals dream...not anymore..

 

[testing]

Please name decent African American figures that made a difference to the country at large. If you can name ten. Then I'll shut up. And they have to be people we all know.

Are you serious? I can't promise you'll know all these people, but that's not really my fault, is it? They have all made significant contributions to the country at large, however. And they're sucessful, and this is just the tip of the iceberg:

1. Martin Luther King, Jr. (and lots of other Civil Rights leaders)
2. Colin Powell
3. Condoleeza Rice
4. Thurgood Marshall
5. Maya Angelou
6. Jesse Jackson
7. George Washington Carver (revolutionized agriculture)
8. Booker T. Washington (furthered African American businessmen0
9. Will Smith (and a number of other highly-compensated and powerful entertainers)
10. Tiger Woods

Plus there are plenty of "average" sucessful middle- and upper-middle class African Americans, who I know, who have succeeded and done well despite an admittedly unlevel playing field. It is a disservice to ignore these people and their hard work, and to claim that their success is unattainable. Why don't you just go and kick some little black kid in the shins while you're at it and tell him he'll never succeed? Same difference.

 

[Sithious]

You're all forgetting one thing

 

[Solongo]

Um...what? Colin Powell quit because he didn't support the war.

And Tyra Banks definitely made a statement for the power of black women and that black can be just as beautiful as white. Why should it matter if she wasn't 100% black?

Then Colin Powell stays. I just don't like Tyra's attitude and her condescending approach to her shows. but I guess she can be included if you take an overall look at her career which was successful.

100% Blackness has nothing to do with. I just wish they were more of them as public figures.

The ten list is done and approved. I shut up.