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Too Fat to Graduate

What I mean is I can eat whatever and do little exercise and still have a lower BMI than someone that is using every bit of their concious control to lose their weight.

Everyone has issues, no?
Of course, but our expectations of others should always be realistic and we should acknowledge difficulty when it's apparent.
It is difficult to lose weight, should that be a deterrent for an obese person to lose weight? I think most people are realistic for the stereotypical cases. I don't remember the story very well, but I doubt that the school requires the fat person to get within a certain weight class to graduate, theoretically it should have been a step off towards a healthy life.

Edit: Spastic internet for the win!
 
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Healthy is lurking anywhere between 15 and 30 BMI, but includes a reasonable amount of athletic performance. For example, a healthy adult should be able to walk 4 miles at a fair pace (like 4 mph) without taking a break and bench press at least half their body weight ten times in a row. If you can't do these things, you should consider getting in a little better shape, but it's your choice. People who can perform at these levels or better have markedly less risk for a great deal of illnesses.

Ideally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 6 mph and bench press their body weight ten times. Optimally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 8 mph and bench press their weight and a half ten times. If you're doing more than that, you're in amazing health.
 
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Healthy is lurking anywhere between 15 and 30 BMI, but includes a reasonable amount of athletic performance. For example, a healthy adult should be able to walk 4 miles at a fair pace (like 4 mph) without taking a break and bench press at least half their body weight ten times in a row. If you can't do these things, you should consider getting in a little better shape, but it's your choice. People who can perform at these levels or better have markedly less risk for a great deal of illnesses.

Ideally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 6 mph and bench press their body weight ten times. Optimally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 8 mph and bench press their weight and a half ten times. If you're doing more than that, you're in amazing health.

Hmm*goes to see a doctor*...I get tired to easily and my BMI is 17.4 if Im not mistaken.
 
Do you work out at all? If not, you might want to start before you go see a doctor.

well not really, the only work out I actually do is when I listen to some music sometimes I would go around, jumping like crazy..ohh and if you count the huge stairs I have to take in school at several times..I don't think it's that I don't work out, it might be my lack of sleep..I been sleeping around 2 hours only lately.
 
well not really, the only work out I actually do is when I listen to some music sometimes I would go around, jumping like crazy..ohh and if you count the huge stairs I have to take in school at several times..I don't think it's that I don't work out, it might be my lack of sleep..I been sleeping around 2 hours only lately.

You need to be getting at least 4 hours a night!

As for working out, if you're interested, I can help you develop a program. However, the simplest method is to just start light. Go for a moderately slow paced walk for as long as you feel comfortable every day until you can hit the four mile mark, then slowly increase your pace. They key here is actually going light and staying comfortable.

I would be willing to bet that some regular exercise will help you sleep.
 
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You need to be getting at least 4 hours a night!

As for working out, if you're interested, I can help you develop a program. However, the simplest method is to just start light. Go for a moderately slow paced walk for as long as you feel comfortable every day until you can hit the four mile mark, then slowly increase your pace. I would be willing to be that some regular exercise will help you sleep.

Yep, I think exercise would help, I been very stressed/worried lately about different things(Im a junior in HS right now), I also suffer from some sort of insomnia and my mind can never stay at rest, like it always needs to do something.
 
Everyone has issues, no?

Yes everyone is fighting their own battles and should be recognised as such.

It is difficult to lose weight, should that be a deterrent for an obese person to lose weight?

It depends, I think they should definitely try to lose weight but if they fail time and time again and start resorting to increasingly damaging and drastic measures I would probably say that the person should be aiming for more practical and acheivable goals like lower blood pressure, lower blood sugar and cholesterol levels, higher levels of cardio fitness, increased muscle strength etc. these other (some would say more direct)measures of health have proven to be realistically acheivable by almost everyone that tries. I would tell them to eat in moderation and get as much exercise as possible but not to stress too much about their weight as stress itself is very unhealthy.

The people that do manage to go from obese to normal weight (and maintained that weight for > 5 years) are a statistically very tiny group of people, what they have acheived is an extraordinarily rare and difficult feat.

I think most people are realistic for the stereotypical cases. I don't remember the story very well, but I doubt that the school requires the fat person to get within a certain weight class to graduate, theoretically it should have been a step off towards a healthy life.

I think that they had to reduce their BMI to under 30.
 
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I also suffer from some sort of insomnia and my mind can never stay at rest, like it always needs to do something.

That's a very common side effect of Ni dominance. I've never been able to "turn my brain off" and go to sleep. I always have to trick myself into sleep with a combination of exhaustion and boredom.
 
Just for clarification:

I am not implying (nor do I think that university is implying) that a BMI lower than 30 means that the person is healthy. That is a false assumption. Some people do not gain easily.
However, with a BMI over 30, typically a person is more likely to have enough extra weight to constitute a high risk of possible health problems. Also, there tends to be a trend that, after college, if a person does not change their lifestyle, their BMI will more likely increase than decrease.

There are exceptions. Body builders often have high BMIs due to their muscle mass. Some people have higher BMIs while still being healthy due to genetics or weight distribution. However, more often than not, for a BMI of 30 or higher, a person is generally moving out of the healthy zone.

And I'm being objective here. I myself have horrible issues with weight loss due to predisposition; however, I eat somewhat healthy, I do exercise, I have a good heart rate, etc. My weight is gained mostly around my hips, which is more healthy than the stomach and allows me to have a higher healthy BMI due to my body type.
However, if someone told me my BMI was too high and that I needed to take another class, I probably wouldn't complain much. I am okay at the health thing, but I could be better; I think everyone could benefit from some health education and physical training.
 
However, if someone told me my BMI was too high and that I needed to take another class, I probably wouldn't complain much. I am okay at the health thing, but I could be better; I think everyone could benefit from some health education and physical training.

But you are an obviously attractive, normal looking young woman, if you were genuinely fat I think it's likely you'd be a bit more sensitive to that kind of judgement.

If someone called me a n****r I wouldn't be offended at all.
 
Racoon Love, people often get more easily tired when they live in places with bad air. That is also directly related with sleep problems. If possible, you may try more often to get to mountains/forests where the air is better; but most of all always keep fresh air at home and minimize any usage of heating/air-condition. Meanwhile, exercise can do wonders quickly in such situation.
 
But you are an obviously attractive, normal looking young woman, if you were genuinely fat I think it's likely you'd be a bit more sensitive to that kind of judgement.

If someone called me a n****r I wouldn't be offended at all.

Well, I'm going to put my Fe on the back-burner and say that there's some point where someone's sensitivity shouldn't stop them from doing what's good for them. Denial never solved anything. And they aren't saying, "You're fat" -- they're evaluating them on an actual measurement for their height/weight, so it's not as personally stabbing (although I could see how someone would be sensitive about that).

It's not a judgment thing. It's not that they don't like it that people are "fat." There are very real health problems that come with it, and it's a real problem facing many people right now.
 
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Healthy is lurking anywhere between 15 and 30 BMI, but includes a reasonable amount of athletic performance. For example, a healthy adult should be able to walk 4 miles at a fair pace (like 4 mph) without taking a break and bench press at least half their body weight ten times in a row. If you can't do these things, you should consider getting in a little better shape, but it's your choice. People who can perform at these levels or better have markedly less risk for a great deal of illnesses.

Ideally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 6 mph and bench press their body weight ten times. Optimally, an adult should be able to run 4 miles at 8 mph and bench press their weight and a half ten times. If you're doing more than that, you're in amazing health.


Bench press is a poor indicator of health.
 
Well, I'm going to put my Fe on the back-burner and say that there's some point where someone's sensitivity shouldn't stop them from doing what's good for them.

You seem to be working from the assumption that they haven't tried "whats good for them" over and over again already, you also seem to be working from the assumption that you know better than them "what's good for them".

Denial never solved anything.

Like they somehow haven't realised that they're fat and they don't already know fat is OMGZ death sentence? Yeah right.

And they aren't saying, "You're fat" -- they're evaluating them on an actual measurement for their height/weight, so it's not as personally stabbing (although I could see how someone would be sensitive about that).

Calling someone fat isn't even an insult, making assumptions about said fat person's lifestyle when you have no clue about them is an insult IMO.

It's not a judgment thing. It's not that they don't like it that people are "fat." There are very real health problems that come with it, and it's a real problem facing many people right now.

It is a judgment about their lifestyle and knowledge that is based entirely on faulty and unscientific assumptions.

Where does it end?

Young black males are more at risk of commiting crimes, compulsory law class for them!

Short people earn less than tall people, compulsory financial management class for them!

Women generally have more problems with overspending than men, compulsory financial management class for them too!

Redheads are angrier on average than the rest of the population, compulsory anger management class for them!

Homosexuals are at a greater risk for suicide, compulsory self esteem course for them!

It's a stupid policy that is based on false assumptions about lifestyle, doesn't mean it should be illegal or anything, but it is stupid.
 
You seem to be working from the assumption that they haven't tried "whats good for them" over and over again already, you also seem to be working from the assumption that you know better than them "what's good for them".

Not quite. Considering that university students have tight schedules, a large unavailability of healthy foods, and frequent weight gain during those years, it's not hard to imagine that people loose track of what's "good for them." However, I'm not saying they probably haven't tried to fix it -- I'm saying if they've been trying "over and over" and not been successful, maybe some actual real education would be good for them. There are studies, classes, entire majors and careers focusing on health and fitness -- those people probably do know what's good for them.

Like they somehow haven't realised that they're fat and they don't already know fat is OMGZ death sentence? Yeah right.

Psychologically, many people choose to ignore a problem until it poses an imminent threat. Unfortunately, by that time it's often too late and much too difficult to "fix" the problem. I've watched friends and family ignore their weight until they've passed a point where their health is absolutely terrible.

It is a judgment about their lifestyle and knowledge that is based entirely on faulty and unscientific assumptions.

Where does it end?

Young black males are more at risk of commiting crimes, compulsory law class for them!

Short people earn less than tall people, compulsory financial management class for them!

Women generally have more problems with overspending than men, compulsory financial management class for them too!

Redheads are angrier on average than the rest of the population, compulsory anger management class for them!

Homosexuals are at a greater risk for suicide, compulsory self esteem course for them!

It's a stupid policy that is based on false assumptions about lifestyle, doesn't mean it should be illegal or anything, but it is stupid.

See, I kind of believe that everyone should have a personal finance class, but that's just me.

The thing is, obesity is considered the greatest health risk in the US right now because it is increasing and it is directly related with numerous health issues. That's why they're addressing that over a redhead's possible anger issues. And when it is shown that anger issues are a real problem in anyone, they are often recommended or assigned an anger management course. So, when a problem exists, steps are often taken to remedy it. They aren't assigning classes to people that have a probability of having a certain BMI -- they are assigning it to people that actually exhibit it.

Furthermore, I'd like to see you prove that it's based on "faulty and unscientific assumptions" that people with a BMI of 30 and over are more likely to have greater health risks and be obese. That's pretty strongly backed, from what I've ever encountered.
 
Also, Quin... As a New Zealander your nation doesn't really know what Obesity is. Not like this.

Sure NZ is full of fat bastards, but that's mostly because you drink more than the Irish and Germans together.




... Understandable really, I'd drink to obesity too if I wasn't as cool as Australia.
 
Also, Quin... As a New Zealander your nation doesn't really know what Obesity is. Not like this.

Sure NZ is full of fat bastards, but that's mostly because you drink more than the Irish and Germans together.




... Understandable really, I'd drink to obesity too if I wasn't as cool as Australia.

Another reason why college students gain weight :D If there will be anything that will send me to obesity, it would be that.
 
Not quite. Considering that university students have tight schedules, a large unavailability of healthy foods, and frequent weight gain during those years, it's not hard to imagine that people loose track of what's "good for them."

It doesn't matter, it's not for someone else to decide IMO.

However, I'm not saying they probably haven't tried to fix it -- I'm saying if they've been trying "over and over" and not been successful, maybe some actual real education would be good for them. There are studies, classes, entire majors and careers focusing on health and fitness -- those people probably do know what's good for them.

I will accept that it's a good idea when I see evidence of an obesity intervention that proves to be successful (especially in the long term), as yet I haven't seen one. If you actually told them the scientific facts about weight loss in this course you'd be telling them that less than .0009% of obese people that try and become normal weight fail to do so in the long term, that twin and adoption studies show that by far the most powerful determinant of body size is your genes. It would tell them that science doesn't actually have empirically proven methods for safe, lasting and significant weight loss and that these people are basically on their own and got to figure it out themselves.

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/51/6/1426

When you wage a war on obesity and 95% of them fail to acheive weight loss (and science can't even tell them how to anyway), then ultimately you're just waging a war on the obese.

Psychologically, many people choose to ignore a problem until it poses an imminent threat. Unfortunately, by that time it's often too late and much too difficult to "fix" the problem. I've watched friends and family ignore their weight until they've passed a point where their health is absolutely terrible.

I've seen skinny friends and family destroy their health too, it's not something exclusive to fat people.

See, I kind of believe that everyone should have a personal finance class, but that's just me.

Well I believe as adults it should be a choice.

The thing is, obesity is considered the greatest health risk in the US right now because it is increasing and it is directly related with numerous health issues. That's why they're addressing that over a redhead's possible anger issues. And when it is shown that anger issues are a real problem in anyone, they are often recommended or assigned an anger management course. So, when a problem exists, steps are often taken to remedy it. They aren't assigning classes to people that have a probability of having a certain BMI -- they are assigning it to people that actually exhibit it.

BMI itself is only a probability, or more accurately a possibility of health problems, a slightly greater possibility than the possibility that skinny people will have health problems but still not a probability that they will have health problems.

Furthermore, I'd like to see you prove that it's based on "faulty and unscientific assumptions" that people with a BMI of 30 and over are more likely to have greater health risks and be obese. That's pretty strongly backed, from what I've ever encountered.

Yes they are at greater risk for some things, so are poor people, stressed people, very tall people and short people, so are minorities and people of low social status, that doesn't give us license to start trying to make decisions for them. The assumptions that bother me is that we assume that just because someone is fat then they're not eating well, not exercising and are uneducated about health. You can eat healthy and exercise often and still be fat. I think it's insulting to assume otherwise. After bariatric surgery an obese person can be eating only 700 calories a day and still be maintaining an obese body size, how low do you want these people to go?

Also, Quin... As a New Zealander your nation doesn't really know what Obesity is. Not like this.

Well statistically the obesity rates of NZ, OZ and USA are pretty much the same, all in the top ten I think. So any other conclusion is just confirmation bias.

Sure NZ is full of fat bastards, but that's mostly because you drink more than the Irish and Germans together.

NZ is full of fat people because we have a very high polynesian population and they have a very powerful genetic propensity to but on fat. Isolation, famine and disease have over time wiped all but those with the highest genetic set points from the population.
 
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I will accept that it's a good idea when I see evidence of an obesity intervention that proves to be successful (especially in the long term), as yet I haven't seen one. If you actually told them the scientific facts about weight loss in this course you'd be telling them that less than .0009% of obese people that try and become normal weight fail to do so in the long term, that twin and adoption studies show that by far the most powerful determinant of body size is your genes. It would tell them that science doesn't actually have empirically proven methods for safe, lasting and significant weight loss and that these people are basically on their own and got to figure it out themselves.

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/51/6/1426

When you wage a war on obesity and 95% of them fail to acheive weight loss (and science can't even tell them how to anyway), then ultimately you're just waging a war on the obese.

The problem with obesity is that, once you are obese, it's becomes EXTREMELY hard to lose it. In fact, prevention really is the only real great strategy. Once a body produces fat cells, those cells never go away again. If someone who is obese wants to become healthy again, they must make CONSISTENT lifestyle and diet changes, and maintain them. That's hugely difficult. But that's what people need to understand; that's where the education would be. It's better to do that at a BMI closer to 30 than over that, because once you start getting much higher than that it gets more and more difficult.

As for the genetic side of it -- there'd have to be some sort of mass genetic mutation to create such a strong insurgence of obesity in only one generation. Genetics do play a part, but they are not an excuse. There are those that literally can't help it; that's not the majority, though, and people do need to take responsibility for that. Genetics is a factor; it is not often the cause.

I've seen skinny friends and family destroy their health too, it's not something exclusive to fat people.

No, it's not. They should take care of themselves too. The problem at hand, though, is the much more wide-spread problem of obesity.

Well I believe as adults it should be a choice.

It is a choice. Lifestyle will be a choice before and after. However, if they are attending the university on their own free will, they are subject to its requirements. That, in itself, is a choice.

BMI itself is only a probability, or more accurately a possibility of health problems, a slightly greater possibility than the possibility that skinny people will have health problems but still not a probability that they will have health problems.

The greatest causes of death of people in the United States are heart disease, cancer, stroke, and in place 6, diabetes. Obesity greatly increases the risk for all or most of these.

Yes they are at greater risk for some things, so are poor people, stressed people, very tall people and short people, so are minorities and people of low social status, that doesn't give us license to start trying to make decisions for them. The assumptions that bother me is that we assume that just because someone is fat then they're not eating well, not exercising and are uneducated about health. You can eat healthy and exercise often and still be fat. I think it's insulting to assume otherwise. After bariatric surgery an obese person can be eating only 700 calories a day and still be maintaining an obese body size, how low do you want these people to go?

It's not common for someone who is eating well and exercising to become obese, unless there is a physiological disorder of some sort. If someone is a bit overweight or even moderately overweight, this might be the case. However, that is not normal for obese individuals, unless they started these programs after becoming obese. These things do increase the health of the individual, but risks are still present.

And most people do go down in size with such a surgery. Two of my aunts have done so successfully.