The lack of famous INFJs: demographics or misrepresentation?
- Thread starter Reon
- Start date
sometimes INFJs are forced to act as something else, too, so dont get credit as INFJs
In no terms to I claim fame, but I absolutely loath having to be super friendly to everyone in teh room, even people i don't know, and have to pretend to bring everyone together. BUT, fi I want to get to DJ, I have to play the part and so perhaps fall under "actress INFJ" lol
about adolf hitler, we all know what he did was very wrong. in his mind, though, he was probably meeting his own righteous ways and saw himself as a hero. according to "how to win friends and influence people" nobody likes to see themselves as bad
In no terms to I claim fame, but I absolutely loath having to be super friendly to everyone in teh room, even people i don't know, and have to pretend to bring everyone together. BUT, fi I want to get to DJ, I have to play the part and so perhaps fall under "actress INFJ" lol
about adolf hitler, we all know what he did was very wrong. in his mind, though, he was probably meeting his own righteous ways and saw himself as a hero. according to "how to win friends and influence people" nobody likes to see themselves as bad
had a good laugh about Hitler once
whilst in deep thought, contemplating humanity
I must admit, it was a psilocybin inspired revelation and
the laughter came along with a feeling of transcendence
felt like I learned something about the nature of existence in that moment
yeah... I thought a lot about Hitler and Jesus that night
concepts of morality versus reality and all of that stuff
was he infj?
maybe so
takes a truly committed individual to go through with the shit he did...
gotta be pretty cold, manipulative, know how to your set your feelings aside and take care of business
whilst in deep thought, contemplating humanity
I must admit, it was a psilocybin inspired revelation and
the laughter came along with a feeling of transcendence
felt like I learned something about the nature of existence in that moment
yeah... I thought a lot about Hitler and Jesus that night
concepts of morality versus reality and all of that stuff
was he infj?
maybe so
takes a truly committed individual to go through with the shit he did...
gotta be pretty cold, manipulative, know how to your set your feelings aside and take care of business
Adolf, the misunderstood young lad that defied his father's values and the traditional career choices imposed on him, and fled and got lost in Vienna pursuing his vocation as an artist painter in an insatiable search for beauty and purity unyielding to the multiple rejections from art institutes?
Sounds like an INFJ to me.
Sounds like an INFJ to me.
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[MENTION=3491]44sunsets[/MENTION] I'm wondering what makes you say that Hitler was not an intuitive? His ultimate goals and plans for working towards his percieved perfect future seem to possibly be intuitive to me. I'm curious as to how you're convinced there is no way he was an intuitive, but certain he was a sensor.
I think we don't *like* the idea of one of the most evil men in history to be INFJ, but it could be possible. To do so, however, you'd have to be - well - insane. But I could see it. He snapped somewhere, because he ultimately saw his "dream Germany" and he wasn't going to stop until he got there. Anyone or anything who wasn't part of that dream got literally killed.
I'm not sure, though, if Hitler was an INFJ. He could've been an NF depending on what his motives were, but maybe you'll have to read Mein Kampf to know why he did the things he did and what his motivations were. That might present a stronger picture. Not that I really want to read that book, but there ya go.
I'm not sure, though, if Hitler was an INFJ. He could've been an NF depending on what his motives were, but maybe you'll have to read Mein Kampf to know why he did the things he did and what his motivations were. That might present a stronger picture. Not that I really want to read that book, but there ya go.
It makes perfect sense that there does not appear to be many "famous" INFJs. Why? Because we're living in an 'S' world where mostly everyone is judged by 'S' standards (amount of money in the bank account, type of car driven, brand of clothing worn, physical appearance/beauty, athletic prowess, etc.).
If we were living in a world where everyone is judged by by idealism converted into action (INFJ standards), there would be a lot of "famous" philanthropists, NPO founders/organizers, etc. Think about it, instead of baseball trading cards, there would be martyrs and saints trading cards. Instead of companies reporting profits gained, they would be reporting on disadvantaged communities they turned around. Instead of men bragging about how many women they bedded, they would be boasting how many orphaned children they sponsored... and they would be praised for it. You get the picture anyway.
Most famous people are douchebags. So are the ones who live in multimillion dollar mansions and "give to the poor". Show me a famous person that gave up all of their bank accounts and worldly possessions in order to help people, and I'll say he/she is more than just a famous individual, but a hero.
Recently CNN did a heros campaign where one could vote for their favorite hero (there were 10 nominations or something like that). The one I voted for, Anuradha Koirala, is working to prevent trafficking and sexual exploitation of girls in Nepal. She is on the ground, working with a meager budget, making a difference, but she is hardly what one would call "famous" (did you recognize the name?). She is worth more than 100 Michael Jordans or Michael Jacksons or Bill Gates' or whatever.
BTW, Hitler was a nutjob. You can't type nutjobs...
If we were living in a world where everyone is judged by by idealism converted into action (INFJ standards), there would be a lot of "famous" philanthropists, NPO founders/organizers, etc. Think about it, instead of baseball trading cards, there would be martyrs and saints trading cards. Instead of companies reporting profits gained, they would be reporting on disadvantaged communities they turned around. Instead of men bragging about how many women they bedded, they would be boasting how many orphaned children they sponsored... and they would be praised for it. You get the picture anyway.
Most famous people are douchebags. So are the ones who live in multimillion dollar mansions and "give to the poor". Show me a famous person that gave up all of their bank accounts and worldly possessions in order to help people, and I'll say he/she is more than just a famous individual, but a hero.
Recently CNN did a heros campaign where one could vote for their favorite hero (there were 10 nominations or something like that). The one I voted for, Anuradha Koirala, is working to prevent trafficking and sexual exploitation of girls in Nepal. She is on the ground, working with a meager budget, making a difference, but she is hardly what one would call "famous" (did you recognize the name?). She is worth more than 100 Michael Jordans or Michael Jacksons or Bill Gates' or whatever.
BTW, Hitler was a nutjob. You can't type nutjobs...
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Boy I wish I were an INFJ... oh wait I am. -.- I can just feel the love (that isn't there.) My parents admire me, yay! My sister admires my brilliance and at the same time wonders why I'm so unsuccessful, miserable, and have no friends in life despite having all these great qualities. The simple answer is my atrocious personality. I'd literally roll a dice for a different personality, anything but an Ni dominant function please! I can't stand ISFJ's but INFJ is far worse in this world. Anyway, I'm done ranting... I agree that INFJ is an awesome personality that I'm gifted with, but if it is a gift, it was never one intended to benefit me.
As for the lack of famous INFJ's is that a famous INFJ would not act like an INFJ. If you made me president of the United States tomorrow, I'd get mistyped as an NT type. NF in INFJ is going to be most prevalent in family life. Also, NF is what we use behind the scenes in organizations, I agree. As soon as you put us into a position where we are famous, you can't fulfill that role as an INFJ being an INFJ. Luckily, us INFJ's can enter other modes of being, and while those modes may be straining on us, we can do it. (At least I can.
) INFJ's make good actors too, apparently, which just goes to prove my point about us being mistyped when we're famous.
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Say what?
There are lots of artists who are Sensing types -- in fact I'd say the majority of artists are Sensing types. There's a reason Keirsey calls the SPs "Artisans".
If you look at Adolf's art work, it's very realism-based -- there's no abstraction in there at all.
That's besides the fact that the guy wasn't a humanitarian or concerned with people's well-being -- he was a violent, authoritarian nutjob who was ruthless and cut people down in order to climb to the top.
If you ask me, my best guess would be some form of SJ, possibly ESTJ. Definitely domineering and a supervisor type. Good with rubbing shoulders with people, good with politics, good with backstabbing (metaphorical as well as literal). This is not to demonise ESTJs, of course -- Hitler was a nutjob.
I suggest people at least read the Wikipedia articles before claiming he could be an INFJ. It's blatantly obvious that he isn't, and I think it's even more obvious that he's not an iNtuitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf
Hitler's racist rhetoric is nothing new -- it's been used many times throughout history and continues to be used today. Think radio shock jocks, violent anti-immigration groups, etc. These are all heavily SJ-based: security, strength and "power" based on spreading fear, loathing and uncertainty. These are SJ figureheads appealing to the SJ types, which consist of the majority of the population. Manipulating people's beliefs by appealing to their base instincts and their need for "security".
Anyway, this begs the question what an evil, malevolent nutjob INFJ might turn out like. My best guess would be this: a person who believes they're saving the world, who genuinely believes that the evil things they're doing are for the betterment of all humanity. Like an Angel of Mercy, but on a bigger and deadlier scale. An INFJ evil dictator mastermind wouldn't be going around executing people by firing squad: he/she would be more subtle and "humane" in their evil doings.
Think stuff like hypnosis, ordering mass suicides via cyanide, etc.
Think religious cult leader, but minus the blatantly violent stuff like guns and bombs (i.e. not a militia leader).
Hitler utterly fails the INFJ litmus test.
You can read lots of stories of NF priests and other religious leaders who heroically sacrificed themselves in order to save others during the Nazi reign of terror. Hitler couldn't be more diametrically opposed to NF Temperament and the INFJ personality.
If Hitler was an iNtuitive, he would've made far better long-term strategic decisions. I shudder to think that he might've conquered most of the Earth, if he were actually smart.
In my opinion, the ultimate evil dictator would be an ENTJ: think Eisenhower, think Erwin Rommel. Luckily for us, they tend to be honourable men. It is my considered opinion that the vast majority of evil dictators in the world are some form of Sensing type, usually SJ. Which makes sense, seeing as they consist the majority of the population in the first place.
In a nod to my INTJ friends, I think they would fare quite well too in the evil dictator stakes, but fortunately for us they have better things to do with their talents
There are plenty of famous people who are humanitarians. At the same time there are also plenty of famous people who are famous for more "superficial" reasons -- this is OK too, that's how the world works. Oprah for example is a famous TV personality and in my opinion she is an ENFJ, and she does a fair amount of humanitarian-type work. So you can even be both: be a humanitarian, as well as being a mass media star.
Bono from U2 (yet another ENFJ) is considered a douchebag by lots of people (I say it's just sour grapes), but I respect him for the work he does. Being rich and famous and a rockstar shouldn't prevent you from doing your bit to help humanity.
Typing famous people is always good fun. It's also hilarious to see all the bizarre types people who have little experience come up with.
Here's a few more of mine:
Barack Obama: ENTJ.
George W Bush: ESTP
Robin Williams: ENFP
Jesus: INFJ, yes the quintessential INFJ (it's interesting to see how many people argue that just because Hitler had the "messiah" complex, therefore he must be an INFJ... good for a laugh!)
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[MENTION=3491]44sunsets[/MENTION]
yeah, I've considered all those points
I still think it's tough to speculate
Was he a nutjob? He certainly wanted to be in control
and he took the necessary steps to establish control.
He did so in a subtle way at first...
ramped up the violence as he gained power.
He did slowly hypnotize the German people.
Mass manipulation like that does require a certain skill.
SJ you say? I don't know about that.
Who can really know?
It's a fun discussion anyway.
[MENTION=2495]88chaz88[/MENTION]
I also thought Genghis Kahn was INFJ
yeah, I've considered all those points
I still think it's tough to speculate
Was he a nutjob? He certainly wanted to be in control
and he took the necessary steps to establish control.
He did so in a subtle way at first...
ramped up the violence as he gained power.
He did slowly hypnotize the German people.
Mass manipulation like that does require a certain skill.
SJ you say? I don't know about that.
Who can really know?
It's a fun discussion anyway.
[MENTION=2495]88chaz88[/MENTION]
I also thought Genghis Kahn was INFJ
Say what?
There are lots of artists who are Sensing types -- in fact I'd say the majority of artists are Sensing types. There's a reason Keirsey calls the SPs "Artisans".
If you look at Adolf's art work, it's very realism-based -- there's no abstraction in there at all.
That's besides the fact that the guy wasn't a humanitarian or concerned with people's well-being -- he was a violent, authoritarian nutjob who was ruthless and cut people down in order to climb to the top.
If you ask me, my best guess would be some form of SJ, possibly ESTJ. Definitely domineering and a supervisor type. Good with rubbing shoulders with people, good with politics, good with backstabbing (metaphorical as well as literal). This is not to demonise ESTJs, of course -- Hitler was a nutjob.
I suggest people at least read the Wikipedia articles before claiming he could be an INFJ. It's blatantly obvious that he isn't, and I think it's even more obvious that he's not an iNtuitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf
Hitler's racist rhetoric is nothing new -- it's been used many times throughout history and continues to be used today. Think radio shock jocks, violent anti-immigration groups, etc. These are all heavily SJ-based: security, strength and "power" based on spreading fear, loathing and uncertainty. These are SJ figureheads appealing to the SJ types, which consist of the majority of the population. Manipulating people's beliefs by appealing to their base instincts and their need for "security".
Anyway, this begs the question what an evil, malevolent nutjob INFJ might turn out like. My best guess would be this: a person who believes they're saving the world, who genuinely believes that the evil things they're doing are for the betterment of all humanity. Like an Angel of Mercy, but on a bigger and deadlier scale. An INFJ evil dictator mastermind wouldn't be going around executing people by firing squad: he/she would be more subtle and "humane" in their evil doings.
Think stuff like hypnosis, ordering mass suicides via cyanide, etc.
Think religious cult leader, but minus the blatantly violent stuff like guns and bombs (i.e. not a militia leader).
Hitler utterly fails the INFJ litmus test.
You can read lots of stories of NF priests and other religious leaders who heroically sacrificed themselves in order to save others during the Nazi reign of terror. Hitler couldn't be more diametrically opposed to NF Temperament and the INFJ personality.
If Hitler was an iNtuitive, he would've made far better long-term strategic decisions. I shudder to think that he might've conquered most of the Earth, if he were actually smart.
In my opinion, the ultimate evil dictator would be an ENTJ: think Eisenhower, think Erwin Rommel. Luckily for us, they tend to be honourable men. It is my considered opinion that the vast majority of evil dictators in the world are some form of Sensing type, usually SJ. Which makes sense, seeing as they consist the majority of the population in the first place.
In a nod to my INTJ friends, I think they would fare quite well too in the evil dictator stakes, but fortunately for us they have better things to do with their talents
Yeah, I don't really think Hitler was an INFJ, though what I described his youth, and judging from that he does seem INFJ. Now, exceptional circumstances made him an exceptionally different person. And his reign is very ESTJ like.
It's also interesting to note that Goebbels was originally a novel author, playwright and poet whose work was also rejected as mediocre or terrible.
Both their initial career choices weren't SJ at all, so it begs the question whether one's type is guided by circumstances or if it guides them.
It's well known that stalin was originally a poet as well, just look as his starving artist face:
I have met lots of people who should be famous and aren't, and lots of people who are famous and shouldn't be. Maybe the problem isn't with INFJs, but with fame itself and what it takes to achieve it.
hitler is on the lists if infjs that various people have posted, btw, his campaigning was actually designed by psychologists, etc, so those were all poses, not really him
wow almost nobody can lose sight of "what he did" n focus on who he had to be to do it. cool!! also, maybe to him his love for "pure blood" or whatever was greater than his feelings about killing so many?
totally
he caught syphillus from a hoe " This STD in its later stages causes the victims to go increasingly mad. It also leaves some sort of evidence on their skeletons so they can later be identified as having it. "
to quote lily allen, "I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless, cuz everyone knows that's how you get famous" she cracks me up
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I was just thinking the other day about how many top actors are INFJ's, either confirmed or unconfirmed (but who I feel positive in my mind really ARE). Many have won Oscars, or have been nominated. Nicole Kidman, Jamie Foxx, Liv Tyler, Paul Rudd, Neve Campbell. Some actors/perfomers I truly believe are INFJ's are Michelle Pfeiffer, Michelle Williams, Naomi Watts and Joni Mitchell. No lack of famous people there, and I'm leaving out many. INFJ's express well, and also feel a need to get rid of their inner emotions via some form of expression, so it doesn't surprise me that many INFJ artists have risen to the top of their professions.
I'm too lazy to read through the rest of this waffle.
Hitler was mentally unwell, most likely psychotic. You can't type someone based on an illness like that. A severe mental illness is going to trump type no matter what...it's not something that can always be controlled. Debating and over analysing it to death isn't going to change anything.
Hitler was mentally unwell, most likely psychotic. You can't type someone based on an illness like that. A severe mental illness is going to trump type no matter what...it's not something that can always be controlled. Debating and over analysing it to death isn't going to change anything.
We'll never understand the "normal" Hitler's mind b/c he was on an ungodly amount of medication (including a derivative of rat poison) and used methamphetamines on a regular basis. Hitler's picture should be on the "faces of meth" and IBS billboards. Heil Master Farter!
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