So....... Does anyone feel energies | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

So....... Does anyone feel energies

sprinkles said:
Why does the moon pass between the sun and the earth? Gravity and centrifugal force, and the balance of the entire solar system. If you don't have that, it doesn't happen.

So no, it is really not "just the moon passing between the sun and the earth". That is a consequence, not the reason it happens.
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I agree that an eclipse is a consequence of various forces - but our knowledge of these forces is a consequence of observation. This knowledge is verifiable by the making of very accurate predictions.

Now, all this stuff about forces, vibrations, energy, etc. adopts some concepts from physics and asserts that these forces can be observed/experienced in a way that runs contrary to how knowledge of forces, energy, etc. is derived: from simple observation of phenomena and a mathematical description of that phenomena. Ie. we can observe the moon, but it is physics that mathematically describes and reveals the forces at play.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that people take the name of a mathematical description and claim that they can feel this "entity"? It is like saying "I can feel the Pi ratio emanating from circles and spheres"; or "the cosine relationship in triangles feels like electric sparks coming to me when I walk up a ramp".

The misuse of scientific terms, to give some sort of intelligent/scientific gravity to vague feelings/emotions/subjective responses is repellent.

It baffles me why someone, who has an intuitive ability to read (and probably experience) the emotions of others; or has a lively and sensitive response to nature (animate, or inanimate), would want to randomly pick some term out of one of the mathematical sciences and equate their intuition with the conclusions of Pythagoras, Newton, Einstein, Plank, etc.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
I agree that an eclipse is a consequence of various forces - but our knowledge of these forces is a consequence of observation. This knowledge is verifiable by the making of very accurate predictions.

Now, all this stuff about forces, vibrations, energy, etc. adopts some concepts from physics and asserts that these forces can be observed/experienced in a way that runs contrary to how knowledge of forces, energy, etc. is derived: from simple observation of phenomena and a mathematical description of that phenomena. Ie. we can observe the moon, but it is physics that mathematically describes and reveals the forces at play.

Doesn't it seem strange to you that people take the name of a mathematical description and claim that they can feel this "entity"? It is like saying "I can feel the Pi ratio emanating from circles and spheres"; or "the cosine relationship in triangles feels like electric sparks coming to me when I walk up a ramp".

The misuse of scientific terms, to give some sort of intelligent/scientific gravity to vague feelings/emotions/subjective responses is repellent.

It baffles me why someone, who has an intuitive ability to read (and probably experience) the emotions of others; or has a lively and sensitive response to nature (animate, or inanimate), would want to randomly pick some term out of one of the mathematical sciences and equate their intuition with the conclusions of Pythagoras, Newton, Einstein, Plank, etc.
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Well I'm not saying that at all.

All is physics and energy.

Do you deny that there is a state of being owing to configurations of aggregates? All the chemicals and cells and atoms and soforth which lead to an emotional state?

You seem to be claiming that there is nothing to sense, which cannot be the case because energy gives rise to your very thoughts right now, and your brain can perceive it. It is there since you yourself are able to feel it. So if you do not refute that, then it must be that you believe such an energy is not at all detectable by someone else.

Also, the butterfly effect. Consider that city roads heating up will alter weather patterns for example, making it rain in Grosse Ile instead of elsewhere if the roads were not present. One is capable of observing nonlinear reactions.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
Agreed. These forces are very accurately described by physics.

But to describe an eclipse in terms of "feeling forces and vibrations" is hogwash, because feelings cannot predict eclipses, rather visual observation of the Moon's orbit and of eclipses allows one to deduce the nature of the unseen forces.

Likewise, observing/being aware of one's own subjective response and more especially, the physical and verbal cues of others makes us aware of their interior emotional states. If the hogwash about vibrations and energies were true, then one could deduce a person's emotional state from a fresh tissue, or blood sample. Or perhaps, through blindfolds in silence.
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Watch this, little grasshopper.
May you grow and prosper.
[video=youtube;TWAuc9GIvFo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWAuc9GIvFo[/video]
 
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION]

Ever noticed music (and just about any loud enough sound) makes a vibration in physical material, such as sofas, walls, tables, and our own body?

In fact, each time you speak, your body vibrates. Put your hand on the chest and say "truth" and check it out ^_^

My point being is that every sound has a vibration.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION]

Ever noticed music (and just about any loud enough sound) makes a vibration in physical material, such as sofas, walls, tables, and our own body?

In fact, each time you speak, your body vibrates. Put your hand on the chest and say "truth" and check it out ^_^

My point being is that every sound has a vibration.
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Yes. My monitor makes a vibration too, among other things. I can hear it and feel it, especially when playing a game or something where the screen transitions, especially from black. It goes from a barely perceptible hum to a high pitched squeal. I know when the screen changes even with my eyes closed. My Nintendo DS does the same thing.
 
Funny how this has evolved into the question on whether energy exists rather than the more subjective "feel" part. The real question being, does the interpretation of the "feeling" mirror the experience of the Other or the actual situation at hand? Does your ability to "feel" energy even make you unique? It would seem that the defining benefit of "feeling" energy would be to have the ability to "interpret" it accurately. No? One who would argue so passionately against another is bound up inside their own set of right or wrong rather than what is. Our perceptions are fraught with our own blind assumptions. The path one should always follow in finding "truth" is that one should be open to Seeing It, no matter what its form. Merely arguing to prove oneself right doesn't honor the Other or give you the insight that helps one catalogue the variations of the human experience and broaden one's horizons or ability to "feel".
 
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HeartLess said:
Funny how this has evolved into the question on whether energy exists rather than the more subjective "feel" part. The real question being, does the interpretation of the "feeling" mirror the experience of the Other or the actual situation at hand? Does your ability to "feel" energy even make you unique? It would seem that the defining benefit of "feeling" energy would be to have the ability to "interpret" it accurately. No? One who would argue so passionately against another is bound up inside their own set of right or wrong rather than what is. Our perceptions are fraught with our own blind assumptions. The path one should always follow in finding "truth" is that one should be open to Seeing It, no matter what its form. Merely arguing to prove oneself right doesn't honor the Other or give you the insight that helps one catalogue the variations of the human experience and broaden one's horizons.
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Perception and interpretation are in fact separate, and as far as I'm concerned 'truth' is not an issue because one can be both right and wrong depending on how the situation is framed. Just like you can see a language even if you can't comprehend it.

As I said earlier, what we think is reality is a hologram. Nobody has complete veracity, just their interpreted approximation.

Personally I'd not speak to accurate interpretations. I'm just aware of a general sense. Just like when my monitor makes noise, I can't tell you what is on the screen if I'm not looking, but I have a good idea of how bright it is regardless. The frequency of the vibration carries with it some deducible information such as brightness but the actual display content is indiscernible to me unless I look.
 
HeartLess said:
Funny how this has evolved into the question on whether energy exists rather than the more subjective "feel" part. The real question being, does the interpretation of the "feeling" mirror the experience of the Other or the actual situation at hand? Does your ability to "feel" energy even make you unique? It would seem that the defining benefit of "feeling" energy would be to have the ability to "interpret" it accurately. No? One who would argue so passionately against another is bound up inside their own set of right or wrong rather than what is. Our perceptions are fraught with our own blind assumptions. The path one should always follow in finding "truth" is that one should be open to Seeing It, no matter what its form. Merely arguing to prove oneself right doesn't honor the Other or give you the insight that helps one catalogue the variations of the human experience and broaden one's horizons or ability to "feel".
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1. Everyone can feel it.
2. Anyone can interpret things wrong, including vibes they feel.
3. I am honoring the people in this thread who do not believe energies can be felt. I am honoring them by making them argue with me, and thus inspect my arguments, and hopefully be more curious.
 
In fact eh? :m096:Whatever makes you happy.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
1. Everyone can feel it.
2. Anyone can interpret things wrong, including vibes they feel.
3. I am honoring the people in this thread who do not believe energies can be felt. I am honoring them by making them argue with me, and thus inspect my arguments, and hopefully be more curious.
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Honoring eh? :m096:
 
HeartLess said:
In fact eh? :m096:Whatever makes you happy.
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In fact indeed. This is easy to prove because if perception also necessarily came with correct interpretation then you'd get everything right the very first time.

Do you?
 
sprinkles said:
In fact indeed. This is easy to prove because if perception also necessarily came with correct interpretation then you'd get everything right the very first time.

Do you?
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I don't recall anything about "correct" but I do see that I said that the ability to "feel" energy wasn't much of a benefit unless the individual was able to "interpret" it correctly to fit the Other's experience. And to your question...do I? Yes, absolutely, we all do. For ourselves we all have the ability to correctly interpret our perceptions. Whether that translates to the Other is the biggest stumbling block both on an internal and an external level. Which is why I am always deeply, deeply amused by those who fail to see the flaw in their own assumptions about the truth and how the world is, myself included.
 
HeartLess said:
I don't recall anything about "correct" but I do see that I said that the ability to "feel" energy wasn't much of a benefit unless the individual was able to "interpret" it correctly to fit the Other's experience. And to your question...do I? Yes, absolutely, we all do. For ourselves we all have the ability to correctly interpret our perceptions. Whether that translates to the Other is the biggest stumbling block both on an internal and an external level. Which is why I am always deeply, deeply amused by those who fail to see the flaw in their own assumptions about the truth and how the world is, myself included.
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Yes.

Maybe you weren't addressing me specifically, but I specifically am talking about whether something happens or not.

I have not mentioned benefits, perceived truths of the sensations, interpretations, or any such subjective concepts. I'm just saying that in my experience this does occur without giving it such value judgments as to what is beneficial or true for me or the other. I find that irrelevant to the initial question.

Do I feel it? Answer: Yes. No adjectives, no verbs, no quantifiers or qualifiers or propositional relationships other than 'yes'.
 
And on that note, the way I feel it is just like the way I feel sunshine or a breeze, or cold, or humidity, or my feet on the ground, or my butt on my chair. It's just input, sensory feedback.

Some times it is pleasant, some times it isn't. It might be alarming. It might be comforting. Some times it tells me something. Some times I just don't care and ignore it and it gets phased out due to my focusing on something else.
 
sprinkles said:
And on that note, the way I feel it is just like the way I feel sunshine or a breeze, or cold, or humidity, or my feet on the ground, or my butt on my chair. It's just input, sensory feedback.

Some times it is pleasant, some times it isn't. It might be alarming. It might be comforting. Some times it tells me something. Some times I just don't care and ignore it and it gets phased out due to my focusing on something else.
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I relate to this very much.
[MENTION=3096]HeartLess[/MENTION] By the way you should get your heart back.
 
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Only with pets and people, growing in towns or noisy places throughout life...Something I have never really been able to define (besides noting how I grew up as an eye aversive INFJ Aspie) is learning to 'sense' feelings or energies based upon non verbal or unspoken communication (upon reflection I feel the cause of my eye aversive traits was fearing the ever-changing degrees of emotionality others convey unconsciously, then again it did require therapy, greater understanding of human motivations and talking time to realise how strong my empathic side has always been; albeit suppressed for a long time).
 
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