INFJ Political Pattern

[IndigoSensor]

Yeah, I think you might be right, but I do know that some of my beliefs are also from the conservatist's grab-bag. That's where I get confused. What's the tipping point between the right and left? Do certain ideals weigh more heavily then others, or is it a matter of adding up the points from either side and spitting out a conclusive label?

I have conservtive views as well. However, over all I am very liberal (less so though in an ecomonic sense). My over all theme is minimal control and maximum fairness possible while still caring for others' well being. In order to do that, I need some conserivtive views.

It really comes down to how everything is put together, not individual things.

 

[Koba]

I have conservtive views as well. However, over all I am very liberal (less so though in an ecomonic sense). My over all theme is minimal control and maximum fairness possible while still caring for others' well being. In order to do that, I need some conserivtive views.

It really comes down to how everything is put together, not individual things.

This is very true. Sometimes it's possible for people to get to the same place along different paths. Or, to use a biological allegory, sometimes different genotypes can lead to the same phenotype.

 

[Warrior Therapist]

I wouldn't know that type would determine political orientation, but I do have a fairly strong left-wing stance. I believe I qualified on the Political Compass Test as being Libertarian Left, which means I strongly favor social justice but do not necessarily want everything handled by the government. I am not, however, a friend of corporations, nor do I think that religion provides all the answers (despite being a devout Catholic).

According to their chart, I was only a few points off from the same position as Gandhi, so I guess I'd be something of a "voluntary regional collectivist" if that means anything.

 

[Eric86]

I'm middle-libertarian, and am VERY much against anything involving socialism.

 

[aeon]

My ideal is enlightened anarchy.

As it concerns economic systems, I have been a centrist - I value a balance of power between the State and the Market. That said, I tend to lean a little toward the Market.

As it concerns personal liberty, I value the autonomy of the individual to make their own choices. That is to say, I do not value authoritarianism, but I do very much value libertarianism.


cheers,
Ian

 

[Krumplenump]

I love the visions of Nazi Germany and the shimmering ranks of party mebers marching around - but I am certainly no Nazi I like the same from the USSR. My political standing sways a lot and swaps from country to country.

 

[Koba]

Most of the army was not a member of the party in either of those countries, and practically every country has military parades.

 

[acd]

I love the visions of Nazi Germany and the shimmering ranks of party mebers marching around - but I am certainly no Nazi I like the same from the USSR. My political standing sways a lot and swaps from country to country.

I don't understand this. What visions do you love of Nazi Germany that make you not a Nazi? And what about the USSR?

I'm missing something.

 

[bamf]

I don't understand this. What visions do you love of Nazi Germany that make you not a Nazi? And what about the USSR?

I'm missing something.

I think they meant the way people worked together in the system and the visual aspects of it, not the ideological aspects.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Yeah, I think it's the idea of very organized groups, and detailed order to things. I find stuff like that appealing, but only in games I play with friends and what not (When I play tag, I get WAY into it, and make it super complicated ).

 

[acd]

I think they meant the way people worked together in the system and the visual aspects of it, not the ideological aspects.

Still don't get it.

The only reason anyone worked together under the Nazi party was because they were glad to have scapegoats to make themselves feel superior to after an embarrassing end to WWI for Germany.

The conditions were prime for Hitler to be accepted and championed. The country was in shambles, people were desperate and losing hope, and felt themselves the losers of the world. Hitler stepped up in all his passion and made them feel powerful under his guidance. If anything, I'd say Nazi Germany just goes to show that under the worst conditions, the majority become ruthless spineless sheep.

As for visual aspects.. Yes. Those yellow Star of David patches were certainly fashionably worn in the streets. Went quite nicely with the smashed in windows of Jewish businesses as well.

Not to mention those cozy smoke arising from the concentration camps.

But those uniforms the SS wore were pretty sharp!

(forgive my sarcasm. But come on.)

I thought this was about ideology, anyway. I'm having a hard time separating the merits of the Nazi's organization from their ideology.

 

[bamf]

Still don't get it.

The only reason anyone worked together under the Nazi party was because they were glad to have scapegoats to make themselves feel superior to after an embarrassing end to WWI for Germany.

The conditions were prime for Hitler to be accepted and championed. The country was in shambles, people were desperate and losing hope, and felt themselves the losers of the world. Hitler stepped up in all his passion and made them feel powerful under his guidance. If anything, I'd say Nazi Germany just goes to show that under the worst conditions, the majority become ruthless spineless sheep.

As for visual aspects.. Yes. Those yellow Star of David patches were certainly fashionably worn in the streets. Went quite nicely with the smashed in windows of Jewish businesses as well.

Not to mention those cozy smoke arising from the concentration camps.

But those uniforms the SS wore were pretty sharp!

(forgive my sarcasm. But come on.)

I thought this was about ideology, anyway. I'm having a hard time separating the merits of the Nazi's organization from their ideology.

They were highly organized and that has merit. I am in no way advocating Nazism but I'm trying to clarify how I understood the post. There can be admirable aspects in evil. The organization of the evil had merit, not what they stood for, just the simple observation that the organization worked (to achieve mass destruction and genocide).

 

[acd]

They were highly organized and that has merit. I am in no way advocating Nazism but I'm trying to clarify how I understood the post. There can be admirable aspects in evil. The organization of the evil had merit, not what they stood for, just the simple observation that the organization worked (to achieve mass destruction and genocide).

Yeah. I understand. I suck at seeing it objectively. I guess you could say, "It was good while it lasted."
(Ew. No. I can't say that.)

 

[bamf]

"It was good while it lasted."
(Ew. No. I can't say that.)

I definitely couldn't say that either

 

[Krumplenump]

Most of the army was not a member of the party in either of those countries, and practically every country has military parades.

Party ideology was to thank for the glittering columns and snazzy propaganda though. Because those parties were the only parties the traditions that came into practice during their reign were largely because of them.

 

[Krumplenump]

I don't understand this. What visions do you love of Nazi Germany that make you not a Nazi? And what about the USSR?

I'm missing something.

Well the sheer impressive show of force that they employed, like the Nuremberg rallies and the Red Square parades in Moscow. The huge disparity between those two ideologically shows I can't support both! (neither, actually)

As you said, the SS uniforms were pretty shrap

 

[acd]

Well the sheer impressive show of force that they employed, like the Nuremberg rallies and the Red Square parades in Moscow. The huge disparity between those two ideologically shows I can't support both! (neither, actually)

As you said, the SS uniforms were pretty shrap

I figured you're not actually a Nazi.

I just didn't understand how in a discussion about political ideology you would bring up

the visions of Nazi Germany and the shimmering ranks of party mebers marching around - but I am certainly no Nazi

When you're not a Nazi..
But I guess if you're interested in organization and efficiency more than ideology.

I have a hard time finding a movement that was founded (and yes, efficiently carried out for awhile there) on propaganda impressive or even worth commending at all. And that's just me. I was just perplexed by your post.

 

[Krumplenump]

Oh, I see. Maybe I just had Jack boots on the mind at the time of posting

 

[Azure_Knight]

While I have my leanings, I'm probably best described as apolitical. I don't think that government is the solution, but it certainly brings its fair share of problems. I have some serious reservations about the social contract as well; the rich and powerful don't seem to be affected too much by it as much as everyone else.

 

[Koba]

I am actually pretty impressed with alt ctrl del's reasoning. She is absolutely right that the organization itself cannot be separated, in practice, from the conditions that caused them to organize together, and from the ideological foundation that grew from the conditions. While it may be possible to subjectively like the idea of people in uniform for whatever psychological reason, and it's likely that Krumplenump was not trying to make a point beyond expressing these feelings, the two cannot be seperated objectively, nor will it ever be useful in practice to seperate them, except for people who wish to obscure things.

I have a hard time finding a movement that was founded (and yes, efficiently carried out for awhile there) on propaganda impressive or even worth commending at all.

This confuses me. Maybe you do not mean the same thing by propaganda that I do? I think of it in the sense that Lenin talked about. Lenin said that propaganda (communicating ideology to the people, to simplify) and agitation (calling and organizing the people to act in a concrete way) were two very important tasks for his party to tackle. I agree with this, and I think that it's absolutely necessary for progressive groups to communicate to people through the use of propaganda. The fact that reactionary groups can also use propaganda does not mean that propaganda itself is the problem, anymore than organization and working together is the problem.