[INFJ] Hello everyone

[meowzician]

The congregation is not even a year old. AFAIK, they don't plan on stopping being a congregation, if that is what you are asking. We have a building.

Well, I wish the very best to you. The place of meeting is a big deal. It means creating the kind of atmosphere your unique group of people feels will bring them into a spirit of worship.

The Messiah.

Okay, this gives me a good idea where you are at in your understanding. Thank you for sharing that.

I'm going to share something, and it is not meant to invalidate you. The messiah is central to YOUR faith. I'm fine with that, and have no intention of messing with you.

In Judaism, the messiah is peripheral. The Jewish concept of the messiah is also quite different from that of Christians.

What is central? Rabbi Hillel said, "What is hateful to you don't do to others. This is the whole Torah. All the rest is commentary." Where Christianity says, "You are broken and Jesus will save you," Judaism says, "The world is broken, and it's your responsibility to fix it."

IDK why you say "real." But I've never been to what you describe.

That's fine.

The reason I keep using the word "real" is because one of the problems we have with Messianic Jews is that they claim their churches are synagogues, when they are not. A synagogue is a house of worship for those practicing Judaism. Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity.

Since you say you love Judaism, I would like to invite you to visit a synagogue. NOT because I'm trying to convert you, heaven forbid. There is no need of that. But because a person cannot understand Jews and Judaism without hanging out with Jews and experiencing Judaism in practice. Do you think it would be interesting to you to see how Jesus worshiped?

One of my most treasured memories is when I was still Christian and visited a NYC Jewish family I had met on BBS forum much like this one. I had a chance to go through an Orthodox Shabbat from the lighting of the candles to attending shul, to having a beautiful Shabbat table with brisket, to having a discussion about why they pre-tear toilet paper all the way to Havdalah, the closing of Shabbat. It was amazing to me, and beautiful, and remains among my most precious memories. I had no idea such a thing existed.

The pastor talks about the Exodus and Jesus, so make of that what you will.

Perhaps one day you will have the good fortune of having a Jewish friend invite you to a seder.

"On the first day of the week, we assembled to break bread." Acts 20:7

Oh, I think you completely misunderstood. I'm not telling you what to do. If you want to be a Christian and meet on Sunday, more power to you. I would never ever tell you not to do that. Please forgive me if I gave you that impression.

My comment was only that this is not something done in Messianic Judaism. Even missionary churches like Chosen People Ministry plants meet on the Shabbat, not Sunday. That's why I was shocked. I did NOT see that one coming! LOL

No tradition. Just refrain from working. The Sabbath is for man to rest, not for rules and regulations, as it was from the beginning.

In your mind, what is work? Again, no wrong answer here. I am just trying to get to know you. And I do support you in this. Having a day of rest is good for a great many reasons.

You may be interested in learning that the word in the Torah used in those verses is melakah, refers to a specific kind of work: creative work. It doesn't mean the kind of work that takes effort, that is another word.

Well, he sure seems to think he was healed by God.

I'm sure he does.


So, in your mind, what do YOU see as Messianic Judaism? And what is it about your congregation that makes you see it as MJ?

Tis late, and the little eyelids are getting heavy. I look forward to continuing this but for now I must say laila tov, goodnight.

 

[QuickTwist]

In Judaism, the messiah is peripheral.

Which kind of Judaism?

But because a person cannot understand Jews and Judaism without hanging out with Jews and experiencing Judaism in practice.

My pastor is Jewish and I get together with him sometimes.

Perhaps one day you will have the good fortune of having a Jewish friend invite you to a seder.

I already told you I have already gone to a Seder...

My comment was only that this is not something done in Messianic Judaism.

It was done by the Apostles, who were the very first Messianic Jews.

You may be interested in learning that the word in the Torah used in those verses is melakah, refers to a specific kind of work: creative work.

Please quote a verse where this is used.

So, in your mind, what do YOU see as Messianic Judaism? And what is it about your congregation that makes you see it as MJ?

I simply see it as an effort to get to the Jewish roots of following Jesus. My congregation does just that. Not tradition for the sake of tradition, but instead, trying to understand the Bible in the way Yeshua saw it.

 

[QuickTwist]

@meowzician,

In "Judaism" as you describe it, saying Messianic Judaism is not real Judaism, people are "not that bad." Like, "I haven't murdered anyone. I keep the Law. I just don't do anything that bad." That is a very big error. What did Isaiah say when he saw the "Lord of Armies"? What did Job say when he came face to fact with God? How did Moses act when YHWH spoke to him?

All of these people were utterly undone by their sin when they came face to face with God. It is only those who see God who realize how sinful they really are.

"When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’s knees and said, 'Go away from me, because I’m a sinful man, Lord!'" Luke 5:8