Deeper understanding of the Enneagram & Triads | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

Deeper understanding of the Enneagram & Triads

@Raccoon Love: I think you might be trying to explain too much with theories. I just don't think our understanding of personality is developed enough for that yet.

Also, I don't find the triads very useful. I score really high on 4&5, but really low on 2, 7, and 8 (consistently).
 
@Raccoon Love:

I think the triads only goes on the matter of 'flow' or development. Someone can be very possible to have several 'unconnected' intentions, which is what your case seems to be, but a good point to start is finding the most ...personally correct and most developed intentions. Perhaps start from the basic idea (The Holy Ideas, the Virtues, etc?)

Enneagram by nature is more fluid, especially with addition to MBTI (i.e, my 6w5 ness multiplies my INFJ/X's skepticism and fear of trouble a lot, but also multiplies the loyalty and trust), of course to others it'll change the variable a lot too. Enneagram is far, far, FAR more fluid in terms of how it's affected, and how it affects people. :D

@VH: I think you're right on yourself. A friend described an INFJ 2w1 as "focused a lot on helping others, but has her own life messed up", and you're very careful on arranging your inner life, so definitely not a 2. 4 and 7........... 7 for me sounds like someone who's very interested and enthusiastic about life, while I don't know much about 4. I'm agreeing with your choice here. :)
 
Res said:
Question to Enneagram experts:

Is the Enneagram based on the idea that you are a type despite any environment or social influences? In other words, does the Enneagram type describe someone as the same type throughout their life, or does it change with age or personality development?
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It depends on who you ask, Res - I think you can change, because your core motivations can change (which will change you). It doesn't happen very often, but it can. It cal also change if something traumatic happened to you at a young age and you haven't grown out of that "mask." Or, you could be in integration or disintegration when taking the test.

Since the Enneagram more or less deals with fears and motivations, if those change for you, then yes - your Enneagram could change.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Ugh, now this is confusing. I was reading into the stackings of an eight..



And possible misstypes:



This just confuses me even more. :/

It looks like 9w8, 6w5 (especially counter-phobic sixes) and 4w3 may have similar "flavours." How do you decide which?
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Stackings are tough, and they can really influence who we are and why we do the things we do. But you have to get to the basics: Who are you, when you're "normal" and not doing anything. When you're in your PJs in your bunny slippers after a rough day at work, or when you first wake up in the morning - who are you? Who are you, without the stess of the day influencing your decisions?

That person is your Ennegram.

When you wake up in the morning, you're thinking something: What are your first thoughts?
 
I've read both 7w8 and 8w9 and they're both very accurate, but there're lines in the 8w9 that clicks with me more than the other.

8w9
Healthy Eights with a 9 wing often have an aura of preternatural calm, like they haven't had a self-doubt in decades.

May have an aura of implicit, simmering anger rather like a sleeping volcano. Slow to erupt but when they do it's sudden and explosive.

When entranced, the 9 wing brings an Eight a kind of callous numbness. They can be oblivious to the force of their anger until after they've hurt someone. Calmly dominating, colder; may have an indifference to softer emotions.

May be the group's protector or provider. Emphasis on cooperation.

When healthy, they are aggressively blustery but will back down and apologize when they've been unfair.
More able to say the Three Little Words -"I was wrong."

Hostility directed towards outside forces who threatens the group's welfare.

7w8
Tend to be exceptionally loyal to their friends, especially when social subtype.

Generally have a strong self-confidence for worldly matters and getting what they want.

Talent for making something out of nothing - entrepreneurial.

Usually share what they have when healthy, want everyone to enjoy their sense of bounty and wide range of interests.

When more entranced, they may be demanding, displaying a selfish impatience and a self-justifying narcissism.

May want what they want right now. Aggressive, hasty drive to acquire money and material options and recognition.

Can demand that the people in their lives say only what the Seven wants to hear - sugarcoated truth. Lash out angrily if reality doesn't meet their expectations; sometimes vengeful. - MOST DEFINITELY NOT! I prefer someone with brutal and ballsy honest to sychophantic weaklings.
 
Shai Gar said:
I've read both 7w8 and 8w9 and they're both very accurate, but there're lines in the 8w9 that clicks with me more than the other.
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7 and 8 are very different types. 7 is a head type while 8 is a gut type.

Do you want to control people so that you are not being controlled?

:typing:
 
Tulip said:
7 and 8 are very different types. 7 is a head type while 8 is a gut type.

Do you want to control people so that you are not being controlled?

:typing:
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Really, you say this from your years studying psychologicial temperament theory?
 
Psychology has not been my field of study.
I look into the Enneagram only out of interest.

Would you mind answering my question?
 
VH said:
So, @Trifoilum: and @Tulip: what Enneatype do you think I am?
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You don't seem like a 4 to me from my impression based on this thread alone...I will let you know when I get a better feel of what your type is.
 
What about this?

Misidentifying Sevens and Eights

Sevens and Eights are both aggressive types (PT, 433-36) and can resemble each other in certain respects. Both are powerful personalities who are able to go after what they want in life, but what they want, and how they attempt to get it, are different.

Sevens are primarily interested in variety
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Would you say you are more in touch with your thinking or with your body?
 
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arbygil said:
Stackings are tough, and they can really influence who we are and why we do the things we do. But you have to get to the basics: Who are you, when you're "normal" and not doing anything. When you're in your PJs in your bunny slippers after a rough day at work, or when you first wake up in the morning - who are you? Who are you, without the stess of the day influencing your decisions?

That person is your Ennegram.

When you wake up in the morning, you're thinking something: What are your first thoughts?
Click to expand...

My first thoughts in the morning always debate punching the alarm clock for yet another five more minutes (impressively being fully aware that such an action holds the promise of an infinite loop) versus peeling myself off the mattress to get started on the day.

But generic jokings aside, I had a chance to really look into this 9 type business and this entire post made me drop my jaw. This too, in fact. Here are a few things that really resonate with me from my research.

We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves
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Stupid question, maybe, but where are you going to find these results; I've taken two enneagram tests since joining and they both gave different results neither of which were formatted in the way I'm reading in people's tags on this site. *continues looking* ... if there's one true sign of an INFJ, it's wanting to understand themselves.
 
Type 5. Agree especially with the descriptions below.

Fives usually cope with difficulties by retreating into their minds where they feel more confident and in control. But Fives cannot retreat indefinitely, and eventually they need stimulation and interaction. Fives also tend to be nervous and high-strung, so when there is no outlet for their nervous energy, it builds up, eventually expressing itself in restlessness and hyperactivity. (Fives can become literally "restless"
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Differences between MBTI and Enneagram.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with all of this information, but use it if it helps you get a better grasp of Enneagram vs MBTI. Note: This was taken from a predominantly pro-Enneagram website so there may be some incidents of favoritism.


Comparison Of Myers-Briggs and Enneagram Typologies (http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/flauttrichards.htm)

Origins
Myers-Briggs: Jung--1920's, Myers & Briggs 1940's, Instrument 1960's.
Enneagram: Gurdjieff, Ichazo, Naranjo--late 60's

Number of Types
Myers-Briggs: 16
Enneagram: 9

Describes
Myers-Briggs: Mostly conscious behavior--4 components--Extraversion/Introversion, Sensing/iNtuition, Thinking/Feeling, Judging/Perceiving.
Enneagram: Attitudes and Behavior-relating to three centers--mental, emotional and
instinctive

Character of Type Descriptions
Myers-Briggs:Mostly positive--stressing that each type has advantages and disadvantages which make each type of equal value.
Enneagram:Healthy & Unhealthy attitudes and behaviors, traditionally focus on personality defects

Internal structure of the Types
Myers-Briggs: Each type is composed of four sets of four bipolar choices.
Enneagram: Each Type can be related to one of three "intelligences", i.e. Head, Heart, Gut.

Instrument
Myers-Briggs:MBTI overwhelmingly used--validated by psychological test criteria
Enneagram: Several--none validated using psychological testing criteria.

How taught
Myers-Briggs: Theory, behavior descriptions, exercises, panels
Enneagram: Description of behavior (positive & negative), traits and motives; panels

Applications
Myers-Briggs:Personal understanding, career counseling, management training most developed. Spirituality less developed.
Enneagram:Personal understanding growth and spirituality most developed. Organizational and management training less developed

Growth path
Myers-Briggs: Growth path related to "balance" --development of less favored preferences
Enneagram:Specific growth path part of theory

Development issues
Myers-Briggs: Can work on preferences directly; development of less preferred functions
Enneagram: Suggestions based on healthy/unhealthy model, and going beyond personality

Degree of conscious control
Myers-Briggs:Mostly under conscious control, especially two favorite functions
Enneagram: Difficult to go "beyond personality" directly--to work on unconscious motives.

Spiritual issues
Myers-Briggs:Some guidance for different types of prayer and worship services. Not as clear about interior practices
Enneagram:Dealt with directly--model is based on "seven deadly sins" Meditation found to be useful for "going beyond personality".

Origin of the Types in a particular individual
Myers-Briggs: Primarily genetic--like handedness. The expression may be influenced by family and cultural environment
Enneagram: Primarily genetic, with "health" determined from early childhood relationships

Key Question
Myers-Briggs: How does a person behave?
Enneagram: Why does a person behave in a certain way ?
 
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