Ok, so i've narrowed it down to 3 - 4w6, 5w6, or 6w7. I included 5 because TDHT provided a description of 5s in my type me thread, and the description seemed to fit.
Deeper understanding of the Enneagram & Triads
- Thread starter arbygil
- Start date
Ok, so i've narrowed it down to 3 - 4w6, 5w6, or 6w7. I included 5 because TDHT provided a description of 5s in my type me thread, and the description seemed to fit.
It would actually be 4w5, 5w4, or 6w7 - but to be perfectly honest, you don't strike me as a 6w7 at all. 6w7s are pretty high strung folks. Not in a bad way, just generally far more extroverted. You don't strike me as such.
If I had to guess, you seem much more like a 5w4...or, if you share a majority of 6 traits you'd be more 5w6.
Here's the list of them. Highlight the qualities you feel you're most like, and try it on for size:
4w5 - Seeking Identity and Knowledge
Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.
5w4 - Seeking Knowledge and Identity
The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Clich
If I had to guess, you seem much more like a 5w4...or, if you share a majority of 6 traits you'd be more 5w6.
Here's the list of them. Highlight the qualities you feel you're most like, and try it on for size:
4w5 - Seeking Identity and Knowledge
Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total. When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.
5w4 - Seeking Knowledge and Identity
The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Clich
This may sound more like me than any of the other descriptions, minus a few key points. Could you explain how sx/so would overlay on this type? The description of 4 sx/so seems very different from this description of 4w5, and I'm curious how they would mesh in your opinion.
Also, thanks for being so patient about my curiosity with my obsession of the week.
I've read that 4 is the most common type for INFJs, and from what I understand 4w5 is very common for INFJs.
6 is equally common between INFJs and INTJs, but INTJs are rarely ever 4s. This is yet another proof that you're an INFJ if you're torn between the two.
Here's the most common Enneagram types for each MBTI type in text format.
ESTJ= 1 or 8
ESFJ= 2 or 6
ISTJ= 1
ISFJ= 1, 2, or 6
ESTP= 7
ESFP= 7
ISTP= 7
ISFP= 9
ENTJ= 3, 6, or 8
ENTP= 7
INTJ= 1, 5, or 8
INTP= 5
ENFJ= 2 or 3
ENFP= 2 or 7
INFJ= 4
INFP= 4 or 9
Last edited:
Same here. I just thought I'd offer that tidbit because you'd been curious at other points in the past. I personally can't decide if 1w2, 1w9, or 4w5 fits me best, though 4w5 seems to be winning at the moment... and from what I can see it's extremely common with INFJs. The sx/so component...
... would also explain why I come up so much like an ENFJ or an INFP sometimes.
MBTI is based on cognition. Enneagram is based on inherent motivations. Clearly these two things have some overlap but are mutually exclusive. The mix between these two systems are starting to prove themselves to be a pretty good explanation of the differences within each type.
I have done this before and 6w5 fits me, it hurts. *rolls down and curls*
*sigh*
@VH: could you explain more about so/sx/sp and its effect to MBTI?
About enneagram and MBTI, A friend of mine gave excellent explanation (that's pretty similar with @VH
that Enneagram focuses more about our desire and intentions, while MBTI is about how we processed and achieves those intentions.... Is this the case?.....So it's even broader than MBTI, but at the same time more universal and hence, easier to understand in essence? Now I became confused. :>
Last edited:
I have done this before and 6w5 fits me, it hurts. *rolls down and curls*
*sigh*
@VH: could you explain more about so/sx/sp and its effect to MBTI?
About enneagram and MBTI, A friend of mine gave excellent explanation (that's pretty similar with @VH
.....So it's even broader than MBTI, but at the same time more universal and hence, easier to understand in essence? Now I became confused. :>
I'm really not that well versed in Enneagram, but this thread is where I learned what I know about sx/so/sp... a subject that eluded me for a long time.
Once you figure out your stacking, this is the link that describes them. The stackings are in the menu on the left.
I recently found this Enneagram stuff fascinating, now that I'm seeing the connection with myself. (I kept mistyping until very recently, and therefore I found it to be not especially effective) Now that I am zeroing in on my type and how it relates to me, I'm starting to see how all the other types relate to everyone else. It's not as bad of a system as I had previously assumed. (Granted, it's not especially scientific, but there's something to it, considering that people do have fears and motivations, therefore patterns will emerge).
And yes, I really believe that these are two different systems (Enneagram and MBTI), despite having a degree of overlap, which I think is cause and effect, not a relationship, are based on Enneagram - our fears and motivations and how we adapt to them vs. MBTI - how our mind operates on its base level and our aptitudes because of that.
I'm pretty sure I'm a 4w3.
But I always get confused on these tests, because I over-analyze myself.
But I always get confused on these tests, because I over-analyze myself.
And here is yet another massive installment of VH self discovery posted in the interest of helping others understand the systems and possibly themselves if they're similar...
I think I've finally figured out my Enneagram, and it was a real puzzle to unravel. Thanks Arby for providing the resources and most importantly the missing link of the 1-7-4 triad.
Looking at the descriptions of 1s, 2, 4s, and 7s (which are the types that I resonate most with), it has become pretty clear that the one that fits best me is 1w2 sx/so. It has the most connection to 2 and 4, but also the 7 side that I've clearly got. If my theory about wings and triads holds, then 1 connects to 4 when unhealthy and 7 when healthy the same way that 1w2 connects to 4w5 when unhealthy and 7w8 when healthy, and that clicks perfectly with me.
I'm an idealist and a perfectionist. How many times have I tried to refine and perfect and fine tune my self assessments and the various theories pertinent to cognitive psychology? This is a type 1 thing. How many times have I disturbed the peace to state the truth, especially when my idealism is offended? I'm pretty clearly a type 1. Most compelling evidence for me is my deep seeded anger. I always go to anger first when emotionally hurt. Depression only happens when I've been beaten down to the point that my idealism has failed. This is definitely a gut triad (8, 9 and 1) reaction.
I'm not tied to approval like a 2 but I do long for love and will happily put myself out to help others. My idealism urges me to do these things and I don't need approval for them, though I really like it when people love me and appreciate what I do for them. Now that I understand the 9 mentality, I've realized that really don't have it. While I am a fan of peace, I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice 'the peace' in order to care for someone. Like for instance, I'll reflexively disrupt the peace if someone has a need by standing up for them. I like peace, but to me peace is something that is part of my idealism and a side effect of people being happy. Most importantly, I'm not one to quietly go along with things that oppose my idealism for the good of 'the peace' if I'm forced to choose between them. My wing is clearly 2, not 9.
My 4 side only comes through when I'm unhealthy, depressed, and my idealism has taken a hit. I've been very depressed the past few years, and have been in a darker than usual spot. Looking back, the parts of 4 that describes me are most tied to the moments in my life when I was in dark phases. The 4 personality is based on envy, and I so don't care what other people have unless they have something they shouldn't, or don't have something that they should. In either case what someone else has is not something that has an affect on me. The four tendency to self indulge is also something that only seems to manifest in me by crawling deep into my imagination. I've never been one for most of the other methods that 4s self indulge. Don't get me wrong, 4 is definitely the worst parts of me but certainly not the better parts of me, and that's exactly a type 1 thing via the triad theory.
I'm an idealist to my core, but I'm at my best when I'm above my judgmentalness, free spirited, and accepting of others which is that 7w8 influence (even though I'm clearly not a 7w8). The good parts of 7s, especially 7w8s are the best parts of me, but the rest of 7s are really not me at all. Again, this lines up perfectly with 1s, especially 1w2s.
I most often test as INFJ, ENFJ, sometimes INTJ (though I'm convinced I'm not an INTJ, just posting this for reference for any mistypes from INFJs who think they're INTJs adding to the Type 1 numbers). All of these types are commonly type 1s.
As an INFJ, this explains why I keep shifting between self identifying as ENFJ and INFJ, even though my N is always higher than my F (INFJ pattern vs ENFJ pattern which is F over N). This also explains why I always have a low J score and sometimes even dip very slightly into a P score.
A very good description of me.
I think I've finally figured out my Enneagram, and it was a real puzzle to unravel. Thanks Arby for providing the resources and most importantly the missing link of the 1-7-4 triad.
Looking at the descriptions of 1s, 2, 4s, and 7s (which are the types that I resonate most with), it has become pretty clear that the one that fits best me is 1w2 sx/so. It has the most connection to 2 and 4, but also the 7 side that I've clearly got. If my theory about wings and triads holds, then 1 connects to 4 when unhealthy and 7 when healthy the same way that 1w2 connects to 4w5 when unhealthy and 7w8 when healthy, and that clicks perfectly with me.
I'm an idealist and a perfectionist. How many times have I tried to refine and perfect and fine tune my self assessments and the various theories pertinent to cognitive psychology? This is a type 1 thing. How many times have I disturbed the peace to state the truth, especially when my idealism is offended? I'm pretty clearly a type 1. Most compelling evidence for me is my deep seeded anger. I always go to anger first when emotionally hurt. Depression only happens when I've been beaten down to the point that my idealism has failed. This is definitely a gut triad (8, 9 and 1) reaction.
I'm not tied to approval like a 2 but I do long for love and will happily put myself out to help others. My idealism urges me to do these things and I don't need approval for them, though I really like it when people love me and appreciate what I do for them. Now that I understand the 9 mentality, I've realized that really don't have it. While I am a fan of peace, I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice 'the peace' in order to care for someone. Like for instance, I'll reflexively disrupt the peace if someone has a need by standing up for them. I like peace, but to me peace is something that is part of my idealism and a side effect of people being happy. Most importantly, I'm not one to quietly go along with things that oppose my idealism for the good of 'the peace' if I'm forced to choose between them. My wing is clearly 2, not 9.
My 4 side only comes through when I'm unhealthy, depressed, and my idealism has taken a hit. I've been very depressed the past few years, and have been in a darker than usual spot. Looking back, the parts of 4 that describes me are most tied to the moments in my life when I was in dark phases. The 4 personality is based on envy, and I so don't care what other people have unless they have something they shouldn't, or don't have something that they should. In either case what someone else has is not something that has an affect on me. The four tendency to self indulge is also something that only seems to manifest in me by crawling deep into my imagination. I've never been one for most of the other methods that 4s self indulge. Don't get me wrong, 4 is definitely the worst parts of me but certainly not the better parts of me, and that's exactly a type 1 thing via the triad theory.
I'm an idealist to my core, but I'm at my best when I'm above my judgmentalness, free spirited, and accepting of others which is that 7w8 influence (even though I'm clearly not a 7w8). The good parts of 7s, especially 7w8s are the best parts of me, but the rest of 7s are really not me at all. Again, this lines up perfectly with 1s, especially 1w2s.
I most often test as INFJ, ENFJ, sometimes INTJ (though I'm convinced I'm not an INTJ, just posting this for reference for any mistypes from INFJs who think they're INTJs adding to the Type 1 numbers). All of these types are commonly type 1s.
As an INFJ, this explains why I keep shifting between self identifying as ENFJ and INFJ, even though my N is always higher than my F (INFJ pattern vs ENFJ pattern which is F over N). This also explains why I always have a low J score and sometimes even dip very slightly into a P score.
A very good description of me.
To be honest, I'm less strong with the stacking theories. All I can tell you is, the stackings are your basest motivations. So you either people first, (social), yourself first (self-preservation), or sex first (sexual). How it plays out for 4s, I'm not exactly sure. But I did some research for the 6s. A social 6 has a lot of fear as their hotpoint (as a six), so a social 6 will have their buttons pushed if they disappoint someone (or people). So their goal is to please people as much as possible. A self-pres 6 has a lot of fear that they'll be taken advantage of in some way, so they'll be more cautious and skeptical, and more security conscious of the 6s. A sexual 6 is a funny beast. They're probably most likely to be counterphobic. They're the ones who want to look better, act better, and be better...especially in bed. Their goal is to be more sexually appealing, and their fear is if they aren't, they won't find their one true love. And they fear disappointing him or her.
It gets even deeper with the top two stackings, because an so/sx is not the same as an so/sp. Their second tier also come into play, and it changes how they respond, too.
Anyway...you can use the "hot buttons" of your own Enneagram, to expand the basics to a bigger world view. The stacking can paint a deeper picture of who you are and why you act the way you do.
ETA: Never mind! You found it out for yourself.
Gotta love it, eh? There's enough stuff to explore. The Enneagram can be pretty fun.
And this is why two people who share the same Enneagram can honestly be two different people: Because it depends on their motivations within their stackings/hot buttons. A 1w2 sx/so is not the same as a 1w2 sp/so.
BTW, the Enneagram chart is a guide, but it doesn't mean that if you *aren't* a 4 you can't be an INFJ - any more than saying if you *are* a 4 Enneagram it must mean you're an INFJ.
If you really want a psychological head trip on the academic side, I recommend reading this article: http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/page1b.html . It gets a little deep, but it's an interesting read on how both the MBTI and Enneagram may work with each other.
If you really want a psychological head trip on the academic side, I recommend reading this article: http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/page1b.html . It gets a little deep, but it's an interesting read on how both the MBTI and Enneagram may work with each other.
Hehe, yeah that's kind of a given... but, the website below listed type 4 as 1.83 instance and type 1 as 1.35 instance, clearly type 4 and type 1 are highly common for INFJs, and the logic behind it seems sound.
Wow, thanks for this link. It explained a lot on levels that I wanted explanations. As usual, you are teh awesomez Arby!
you do come across as a 9, very easy going for the most part
I think I'm a five. If not five, either 4 or 6.
S
Shai Gar
8w9 - Seeking Power and Peace
Healthy Eights with a 9 wing often have an aura of preternatural calm, like they haven't had a self-doubt in decades. Take their authority for granted - queen or king of all they survey. May be gentle, kind-hearted, quieter. Often nurturing, protective parents; steady, supportive friends. Informal and unpretentious, patient, laconic, generally somewhat introverted. Sometimes a dry or ironic sense of humor. May have an aura of implicit, simmering anger rather like a sleeping volcano. Slow to erupt but when they do it's sudden and explosive. When entranced, the 9 wing brings an Eight a kind of callous numbness. They can be oblivious to the force of their anger until after they've hurt someone. Calmly dominating, colder; may have an indifference to softer emotions. If very unhealthy, they can be mean without remorse or aggressive in the service of stupid ends. Paranoid plotting, muddled thinking, moral laziness. Can be vengeful in ill-conceived ways, abuse those they love, don't know when to quit.
THE CHALLENGER
Overview of Type Eight
Everyday language comments regularly on the reasons for which power is being pursued. If it is narrowly confined to the interest of an individual or group, one says it is being sought for selfish ends; if it reflects the interest or perception of a much larger number of people, those involved are thought inspired leaders or statesmen...
Much less appreciated is the extent to which the purpose of power is the exercise of power itself. In all societies, from the most primitive to the ostensibly most civilized, the exercise of power is profoundly enjoyed. Elaborate rituals of obeisance