1 in 6 Americans in poverty?

[Pristinegirl]

This is an understandable position. The question lies in how accurately it depicts those in need of help. Maybe people are laying on the couch playing expensive video games and expecting money and they go without food because of this. I would need to see some kind of proof that this is the nature of the problem of poverty. That's probably happens, and in most cases parents end up financially supporting them, but that has nothing to do with actual poverty from a larger social standpoint. Correcting that problem will not solve the problem of poverty. It is a tangential issue.

There can be issues of lack of motivation in extreme poverty, but it isn't always because the person is lazy, and it is rarely because they are playing with expensive toys. It can happen because they are nutritionally deprived, lacking medical attention, and ending up in depression because of physical and psychological deprivation. If you live in a ghetto and every person you know is in poverty, then there are some who work double and triple shifts at minimum wage jobs, others who lay around waiting for welfare checks, others who get involved with drugs or prostitution. In each case, the problem of poverty is not satisfactorily solved. That is damned depressing. When entire populations exhibit certain problems, then it is not an individual issue. It is a sociological issue, and one can certainly blame the individuals, but the problem will not be solved in that manner. There are factors powerful enough to produce the same outcome in an entire strata of society. These external factors must be diagnosed and addressed in order for progress to occur. Individual blame is meaningless in such a discussion.

I fully agree. See I'm not claiming that actual poor people live like that, but rather that "poor" ones, playing video games, relying on social welfare, having all kinds of luxuries, shouldnt be able to get it!!! Actual poverty is a real problem!! The truly poor person is most likely NOT lazy at all just incapable, for several reasons like you mentiones, of climbing to the first branch on the tree where things are eased. I admire all of those brave parents who work those double tripple shifts, and never surrender for the sake of their children. They are true inspirations!!

 

[Pristinegirl]

...

Seriously, what?

Yea what I meant was if only everyone felt like that, we would live in the ideal.

 

[testing]

Well, Rupert frikking Murdoch owns Fox news.
LOL! Loving the irony.

I did not know that, never watch it, didn't care.

 

[Julia]

I fully agree. See I'm not claiming that actual poor people live like that, but rather that "poor" ones, playing video games, relying on social welfare, having all kinds of luxuries, shouldnt be able to get it!!! Actual poverty is a real problem!! The truly poor person is most likely NOT lazy at all just incapable, for several reasons like you mentiones, of climbing to the first branch on the tree where things are eased. I admire all of those brave parents who work those double tripple shifts, and never surrender for the sake of their children. They are true inspirations!!

That is true. It is a complex issue that can be approached from many vantage points, but in the end I think people typically agree on the principles. People desire actual poverty be solved and that people contribute to society with their full ability. Most conflict arises in the methods in which the problem is solved. The problem is that providing some support isn't enough. In this way social welfare can help short-term, but if it doesn't address the underlying causes, it doesn't solve anything. In a worst case scenario it could pull everyone down towards poverty rather than lifting up the impoverished.

Human beings are both a resource and a cost in a society. The impoverished are essentially an unused resource. They have potential, intelligence and good ideas that go unused by society. Helping the poor is best approached when it is problem solving to bring out their full potential which will in the end contribute back to those who invested in their help.

Two approaches could focus on lifting people out of poverty. The first is increasing access to education. The second is creating more financial rewards for working. It is a complex problem, and likely no solution that is entirely effective, but there needs to be tangible rewards for making an effort.

 

[Pristinegirl]

That is true. It is a complex issue that can be approached from many vantage points, but in the end I think people typically agree on the principles. People desire actual poverty be solved and that people contribute to society with their full ability. Most conflict arises in the methods in which the problem is solved. The problem is that providing some support isn't enough. In this way social welfare can help short-term, but if it doesn't address the underlying causes, it doesn't solve anything. In a worst case scenario it could pull everyone down towards poverty rather than lifting up the impoverished.

Human beings are both a resource and a cost in a society. The impoverished are essentially an unused resource. They have potential, intelligence and good ideas that go unused by society. Helping the poor is best approached when it is problem solving to bring out their full potential which will in the end contribute back to those who invested in their help.

Two approaches could focus on lifting people out of poverty. The first is increasing access to education. The second is creating more financial rewards for working. It is a complex problem, and likely no solution that is entirely effective, but there needs to be tangible rewards for making an effort.

So wise and well said Julia I couldn't agree more!! It only serves as a temporary alleviation, long term the underlying causes have to be adressed in order to make change. I think this serves as a reminder that each and every human has potential and far to often it is lost because society gives up on them. I think it is easy to forget that while someone is riding a success, somewhere else someone does not get a chance because they are on the downside of advantage.

 

[Shai Gar]

Fox news? l'm not sure, but it is almost entirely sensation and exaggeration. Most of the 24 hour news networks here have turned to sensation over reporting. How else will they keep viewers? Unfortunately they really upset a lot of people.

Rupert Murdoch. An Australian.

When his family came to Australia, it was the family of a Presbyterian Reverend. They made their way from poverty in Scotland, to International Wealth and Power in Australia.

He only went for American Citizenship because of their nationalistic approach to business, where ONLY AN AMERICAN CITIZEN could own an American television station.

 

[arbygil]

To reiterate: I don't think anyone is saying America is horrific and evil, but we are talking about the truth, about what poverty is like in the United States. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people sit at home eating twinkies, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people have big screen TVs and play video games, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that the poor or impoverished live like bums on the street, then you're mistaken.

There are poor and impoverished in every nation on earth - some have more than their fair share - but saying that the solution is telling people to "Try harder" and "stop doing X" is not going to solve the problem. Sometimes it's lack of education, sometimes it's a teen mother, sometimes it's going jobless for too long or having a temp job that falls flat, sometimes it's as little as a car breakdown and having no money to fix it. A person can become poor or impoverished at any time or any place. It is flat out wrong to assume that they all fit in one category, or even the majority fits in one category.

Stop listening to commentators about what poor is and start getting the facts. I'm tired of people's assumptions of poor being ghettoized Blacks when the truth is there are far more Whites who are impoverished. I'm tired of folks saying the US is the land of opportunity when we have people living in our country with no running water and no heat during winter. I'm tired of people saying the US is perfect. No, it's not. Sure, it's better than many countries - maybe than most - but that really, really depends on who you are and on what level you're living. Don't paint this country with high ideals. Let's look at reality, and then let's try to help those who are in trouble so we're deserving of our praise.

 

[Julia]

To reiterate: I don't think anyone is saying America is horrific and evil, but we are talking about the truth, about what poverty is like in the United States. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people sit at home eating twinkies, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people have big screen TVs and play video games, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that the poor or impoverished live like bums on the street, then you're mistaken.

There are poor and impoverished in every nation on earth - some have more than their fair share - but saying that the solution is telling people to "Try harder" and "stop doing X" is not going to solve the problem. Sometimes it's lack of education, sometimes it's a teen mother, sometimes it's going jobless for too long or having a temp job that falls flat, sometimes it's as little as a car breakdown and having no money to fix it. A person can become poor or impoverished at any time or any place. It is flat out wrong to assume that they all fit in one category, or even the majority fits in one category.

Stop listening to commentators about what poor is and start getting the facts. I'm tired of people's assumptions of poor being ghettoized Blacks when the truth is there are far more Whites who are impoverished. I'm tired of folks saying the US is the land of opportunity when we have people living in our country with no running water and no heat during winter. I'm tired of people saying the US is perfect. No, it's not. Sure, it's better than many countries - maybe than most - but that really, really depends on who you are and on what level you're living. Don't paint this country with high ideals. Let's look at reality, and then let's try to help those who are in trouble so we're deserving of our praise.

Well said.

I tried to give you a rep comment, but it said I had to spread the love around first.


(Does that mean you can't give two in a row? It surprised me somehow)

 

[Pristinegirl]

To reiterate: I don't think anyone is saying America is horrific and evil, but we are talking about the truth, about what poverty is like in the United States. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people sit at home eating twinkies, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that all poor or impoverished people have big screen TVs and play video games, then you're mistaken. If you have the impression that the poor or impoverished live like bums on the street, then you're mistaken.

I fully agree!! Also, I'm wondering would someone who is financed completely by the state be considered poor?

There are poor and impoverished in every nation on earth - some have more than their fair share - but saying that the solution is telling people to "Try harder" and "stop doing X" is not going to solve the problem. Sometimes it's lack of education, sometimes it's a teen mother, sometimes it's going jobless for too long or having a temp job that falls flat, sometimes it's as little as a car breakdown and having no money to fix it. A person can become poor or impoverished at any time or any place. It is flat out wrong to assume that they all fit in one category, or even the majority fits in one category.

I'm tired of folks saying the US is the land of opportunity when we have people living in our country with no running water and no heat during winter. I'm tired of people saying the US is perfect. No, it's not. Sure, it's better than many countries - maybe than most - but that really, really depends on who you are and on what level you're living. Don't paint this country with high ideals. Let's look at reality, and then let's try to help those who are in trouble so we're deserving of our praise.

You put it so well!! But I think that my Fi has me feeling that it is partially directed to me seeing as I hold USA high. Therefore I feel that I must say that the downsides are clear and visible, someone denying them would be nothing but ignorant. BUT the fact is that no other country has opportunities such as in the States. Although if we turn the coin, probably no other country lets their inhabitant fall as hard either. So basically you do or die, you fall or you fly.

 

[Billy]

Thats bull and you know it.

If you haven't been poor then you can't talk.

I'm sorry but this oh people aren't poor BS gets me so angry.

Wake the hell up people. America isn't the greatest place to live.


Poverty is a very real and very prevent problem in America. And tell people oh well just work harder doesn't work.



thats the problem. This countries so worried about everyone trampling over everyone else people forget to help others or simply don't want too.

Ive been poor, Im surprised you haven't noticed me saying it once before. I came from a pretty destitute background. And I am not poor any more. Guess how that happened?

 

[Billy]

I do not understand this phenemenom... how can they afford it? Even if it is all fast food? People always say fast food is cheaper... and it is... but still, it adds up fast too. Beans and rice are probably the cheapest.

Poverty is real but the poorer=fatter in America thing is a measurable statistic.

They can afford it because they have messed up priorities and they are LAZY. Anyone with initiative would build a food budget and shop in bulk with what money they did have to come up with the most nutritious meals for the best prices per weight. They don't though because they are lazy and or ignorant. So they get thier big screen tvs and xboxes and 6 big macs per week and live in a slum because they're too short sighted to overcome the situation with intelligence.

 

[Billy]

Wait, USA is the only country where you can work your way to the top?
hahahahahaha

Didn't say that, it's definitely the best place to do that though.

 

[acd]

Obviously, in order to work your way to the top, you've gotta be standing on the backs of others. If one's conscience is a-ok with that, then of course America would appear to be the best place to live..

I think it's funny that middle class people are so obsessed with working their way to the top and then chastising homeless or poor people for being lazy or stupid or irresponsible-- because the elite rich at the top feel the middle class are a bunch of schmucks. It's all a fallacy, this "working to the top."

 

[Satya]

HA So you don't think that someone defined as poor needs help?!? when someone who is impoversished is in fact poor..

What? Impoverished is just a different level of poor.

If Shai can talk about Australia, I can talk about Sweden

Do as you like. It's a free forum.

The article said a limit of 2 years. And it is strange because according to the statistics; as the federal assistance rose, the poverty rate went up and unemployment too...

I'm not sure what is up with the wiki article or the statistics it presents. The economy was booming through the 90s and that is largely what reduced the poverty gap for that period. (Correlation does not necessarily imply causation PG, consider other possible variables when reading correlating statistics) TANF has not had a very significant effect on decreasing poverty, but it did decrease unemployment. Of course this presented another problem. When unemployment goes down, inflation goes up. That means, even though more people were working, the value of the money they were earning was going down.

 

[Satya]

They can afford it because they have messed up priorities and they are LAZY. Anyone with initiative would build a food budget and shop in bulk with what money they did have to come up with the most nutritious meals for the best prices per weight. They don't though because they are lazy and or ignorant. So they get thier big screen tvs and xboxes and 6 big macs per week and live in a slum because they're too short sighted to overcome the situation with intelligence.

I've never seen such a clear case of fundamental attribution error in my life. The way you over-value personality based explanations for poverty and consumption behavior and undervalue the situational factors involved demonstrates that you have absolutely no awareness of your own metacognition. Are you not ashamed that you regard others as lazy and inept and ignore how the factors outside of their control (such as how they were raised, the early education they received, the influence of the culture in which they were born, the opportunities they have had, etc.) have come to affect them? I'm actually quite happy you presented this argument, because it demonstrates how little thought you have actually given to your own views.

Frankly, I see no sense in effectively casting pearls before swine by continuing to try to hold rational discussion with you in these kinds of topics when you lack even the ability to address your own cognitive bias.

 

[Billy]

I've never seen such a clear case of fundamental attribution error in my life. The way you over-value personality based explanations for poverty and consumption behavior and undervalue the situational factors involved demonstrates that you have absolutely no awareness of your own metacognition. Are you not ashamed that you regard others as lazy and inept and ignore how the factors outside of their control (such as how they were raised, the early education they received, the influence of the culture in which they were born, the opportunities they have had, etc.) have come to affect them? I'm actually quite happy you presented this argument, because it demonstrates how little thought you have actually given to your own views.

Frankly, I see no sense in effectively casting pearls before swine by continuing to try to hold rational discussion with you in these kinds of topics when you lack even the ability to address your own cognitive bias.

Taaadaaaaa Satyas here everybody!

I think you just don't have the balls to see the reality in the situation and you probably don't know very many poor people either, not real poor people. Which is why you have to cling to social science verbal poop sack memos. I've been there I know what I saw and how we lived and how my friends and their families lived. The reason they were poor and living in housing projects wasn't because of things out of their control, it was because they were getting welfare checks and free housing and using the money to buy drugs and other things they didn't need.

Case in point, my family didnt always have the best food or good clothes, but we had the best TV, and we had 100s of NES cartridges. Most of them we bought "hot" but still it was money not being spent on a proper budget. It was all impulse thats how we lived. Its how everyone lived there.

I doubt you even know what I am talking about... and as pathetic as our lives were back then we lived like Olympian GODS compared to the REAL poor I met in China in 2005 when I was staying there. But we cant talk about that poor because they are happy to be living in an egalitarian communist utopia. Meanwhile the people with no access to money starved to death in the streets literally.

 

[Satya]

Taaadaaaaa Satyas here everybody!

I think you just don't have the balls to see the reality in the situation and you probably don't know very many poor people either, not real poor people. Which is why you have to cling to social science verbal poop sack memos. I've been there I know what I saw and how we lived and how my friends and their families lived. The reason they were poor and living in housing projects wasn't because of things out of their control, it was because they were getting welfare checks and free housing and using the money to buy drugs and other things they didn't need.

Case in point, my family didnt always have the best food or good clothes, but we had the best TV, and we had 100s of NES cartridges. Most of them we bought "hot" but still it was money not being spent on a proper budget. It was all impulse thats how we lived. Its how everyone lived there.

I doubt you even know what I am talking about... and as pathetic as our lives were back then we lived like Olympian GODS compared to the REAL poor I met in China in 2005 when I was staying there. But we cant talk about that poor because they are happy to be living in an egalitarian communist utopia. Meanwhile the people with no access to money starved to death in the streets literally.

Meh, anyone can read your posts and see that you just like to call people lazy, ignorant, and inept rather than seriously consider the environmental factors that have contributed greatly to their problems. Of course, its amusing that you think the reason people are poor is because they are living in housing projects and getting welfare checks, and not that people are living in housing projects and getting welfare checks because they are poor. A fascinating inverse correlation that you have created and justified in your own mind.

You don't have to have a degree in social psychology to realize someone who simplifies things to the point of stereotyping poor people, probably doesn't have a very realistic view.

 

[Billy]

Meh, anyone can read your posts and see that you just like to call people lazy, ignorant, and inept rather than seriously consider the environmental factors that have contributed greatly to their problems. Of course, its amusing that you think the reason people are poor is because they are living in housing projects and getting welfare checks, and not that people are living in housing projects and getting welfare checks because they are poor. A fascinating inverse correlation that you have created and justified in your own mind.

You don't have to have a degree in social psychology to realize someone who simplifies things to the point of stereotyping poor people, probably doesn't have a very realistic view.

LOL my view point was born and bred from experience IN the conditions you have no idea about but seem to think you can understand it all. Why aren't you running for office again since you have all the answers without actually knowing the situation?

 

[Satya]

LOL my view point was born and bred from experience IN the conditions you have no idea about but seem to think you can understand it all. Why aren't you running for office again since you have all the answers without actually knowing the situation?

Ah, so you are a product of the conditions you have experienced, but others do not have that benefit.

For your information, I lived on the streets of Sacramento when I was 13. I was abandoned by my mother. Before that, my mother was a drug addict and alcoholic, who left me pretty much alone to raise my two younger brothers. I had more than my taste of poverty. I know very well how people can leech off the system, but I also know the factors in my mother's background that lead her to make many of the choices she made, and I know that isn't representative of most poor people.

The way you are using your personal experience to oversimply the world is irrelevant to the reality.

 

[muir]

looking the wrong way

I's amazing what a sleight of hand the rich manage to pull on the public.

They do it so well that people end up blaming the poor for the problems of a country. The wealth is being hoarded by a very small number of people.

Just how much money does one individual need exactly? Whilst people are being destracted the rich will continue to rob the middle and working classes and the poor. The taxes will not come from the super rich it will come from the middle and working classes. They are growing rich off the hard work and pain of EVERYONE else.

They will make us work longer hours, for less pay. They will take our pensions, our homes, our health and our dignity. The money is flowing upwards as the rich find new ways to disposses everyone else and accumulate the wealth. The gap between the rich and the poor (and the rest of society as well) will continue to grow. The rich will use their wealth to buffer themselves from the harsh world they will create.

But blame the poor, who have no real stake in society if you want.