Who are the haters?

[Satya]

The culture war on gay marriage is always confusing.

Recently, Argentina passed gay marriage despite a Cardinal of the Catholic Church declaring it, "the devil's handiwork" and opposing the legislation on grounds that it was "a move by the Father of Lies who aims to confuse and deceive the children of God." So apparently by seeking to obtain marriage for same sex couples, gay marriage advocates are perpetuating a "[...] destructive pretension against the plan of God." And allowing gay couples to adopt children is discriminatory towards children because they are "being deprived of the human growth that God wanted to be given through a father and a mother.”

http://ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=6105&MediaType=1&Category=24

In America, the National Organization of Marriage has been on a bus tour to promote against gay marriage. Brian Brown, the new LDS leader of the organization has declared that the anti-gay marriage movement is now a "civil rights movement". After a heated exchange with gay marriage protesters, Brown asserted that the protesters were "crazy" and "disgraceful". NOM has since released this video...

[youtube]Ny10_M1nDEk[/youtube]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-wolfson/freedom-to-marry-to-nom-t_b_655414.html

The former leader, Maggie Gallagher, recently spoke in Ohio, calling gay marriage supporters, "haters" and declared “We live in a world where people tell us good is bad and bad is good … [But] truth and love will triumph over lies and hatred.”

However, NOM has not been pulling in big rally crowds since New Jersey and even had filmers removed by the police when it became apparant that crowds like these...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/couragecampaign/4815999206/

...might not reflect well on the organization.

So who are the haters? Is it the people who claim that gay marriage supporters are doing the work of the devil and doing bad? Is it the gay marriage supporters who are angrily confronting the anti gay marriage people? Is it all a trap?

 

[BostonAndy]

I think that the movement needs to address the people less and the policy more.

Some People will always hate what they do not understand. this doesn't realy alleviate the fact that american human rights are inalienable, by definition and as such, are not open to a popular vote.

I think gay activists need to take the arguement away from the people who will never agree with them, no matter what, and move it to the larger picture of what american civil rights really are and how these states votes are unconstitutional.

the next wave of gains for gay rights will have to occcur in the courts, and feeding the monster of these people's hate does nothing but justify them showing up the next time to bully the next crowd.

I may be an Extrovert not an Intorvert, but I am selective about confrontation in that if it leads to nowhere, I simply think it is a waste of time.

Many of these protests are just justifying the "god hates Fags" crowd.

so engaging them is most definitely a trap and it distracts from where we should be working.

I am all for lgnoring idiots and having revenge on them by just letting them waste their life in said ignorance.

thanks for this thread!!!

 

[athenian200]

Honestly? I think that ALL the protesters who go around making a scene, and getting in other people's faces like that are full of hate.

I think the decent people on either side are the quieter ones, who have their beliefs, but don't try to parade them in front of people, criticize those who disagree, and make a major fuss about them.

I personally think there should be no straight marriage, and that marriage shouldn't even be a legal status. People can have the ceremony, but I don't think they deserve tax breaks and special joint ownership status just because they're two people who want to have a relationship (and potentially children). It's an arbitrary concept, supported solely by tradition. If people want to have a ceremonial marriage in a church, fine... but the government should stay completely out of it. It violates the principle of separation of church and state, IMO.

 

[IndigoSensor]

You know? I just don't care anymore. These people can bitch and moan all they want. I know their arguments are invalid and that times are changing. It's just a matter of time before the dinosaurs are dead. So, why waste my energy?

 

[Raccoon Love]

You know? I just don't care anymore. These people can bitch and moan all they want. I know their arguments are invalid and that times are changing. It's just a matter of time before the dinosaurs are dead. So, why waste my energy?

I just fear justice might take longer to take in effect..I still hear plenty of homophobic comments in my daily life, though that strongly also depends on the area. Even if I had this rights soon, I can't stand seeing injustice elsewhere...I believe in voicing my opinions in favor of gay rights, though like Athenian said I shuld try to do so in a respectful and peaceful manner..this doesn't mean I should not care anymore though..my mind just works like that

 

[sassafras]

Yep. All the hot fuss is ridiculous. There are people who are part of catholic communities who really don't give a shit about who marries who as long as they love each other. I think the exclusive focus on the most demonstrative idiots is casting a very skewed perception of the group as a whole.

As for gay marriage, it's going to happen and it has a right to happen and there's nothing devilish or evil about it (unless you're of the mindset that anything you don't understand = Satan).

 

[Silently Honest]

Personally, I think marriage of any kind is wrong.

 

[Detective Conan]

To be honest, I've always had trouble understanding the "why" behind gay marriage protests. I mean, I do understand it, but I think, at this point, I'm incapable of honestly relating to the protestors.

We had a debate about gay marriage in our government class just a few months ago, and the only reason people against gay marriage had for their stance was their religion. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that stance, but I have trouble believing in an all-knowing and wise power (using the general western interpretation of God) wouldn't want the people of Earth to find happiness. Of course, when I said that, the shit hit the fan (in a seemingly "fanless" room).

Really, I think that this argument is very trivial and shouldn't be as prevalent in our society as it is today. I've noticed that gay marriage hits the news as an interesting bill or act of legislation is about to his the White House, but that might just be me over-analyzing things. It doesn't affect straight people/couples unless straights let it affect them (silly homophobes, no surprise buttsecks for you), so it seems stupid to me that they're so against this. It's not like the gay community plans on genocide via gay marriage (if that is indeed the case, then I'd like to see blueprints for said plan).

In the end, I say let the gays get married, pay taxes, and be miserable like the rest of the straight, married couples out there.

 

[Billy]

boring topic.

 

[middle1]

I don't understand why other people feel the need to tell others and judge others on how they live or were born etc. I don't care whether your gay or straight and if you get married and have babies. It makes no difference to me.

 

[IndigoSensor]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that stance,

Yes there is. They are trying to impose legal implications purely based off religious contexts, which is devoid of all logic. Therefore it has absolutely no base at all in the context of law. Therefore you can say there is a ton wrong with it. That is one thing I will debate people on is if they base it off religion; it has no base at all.

 

[DimensionX]

You know? I just don't care anymore. These people can bitch and moan all they want. I know their arguments are invalid and that times are changing. It's just a matter of time before the dinosaurs are dead. So, why waste my energy?

Yep. All the hot fuss is ridiculous. There are people who are part of catholic communities who really don't give a shit about who marries who as long as they love each other. I think the exclusive focus on the most demonstrative idiots is casting a very skewed perception of the group as a whole.

As for gay marriage, it's going to happen and it has a right to happen and there's nothing devilish or evil about it (unless you're of the mindset that anything you don't understand = Satan).

What they said ^

 

[IndigoSensor]

I just fear justice might take longer to take in effect..I still hear plenty of homophobic comments in my daily life, though that strongly also depends on the area. Even if I had this rights soon, I can't stand seeing injustice elsewhere...I believe in voicing my opinions in favor of gay rights, though like Athenian said I shuld try to do so in a respectful and peaceful manner..this doesn't mean I should not care anymore though..my mind just works like that

There are people out there who will do the dirty work, there always will be. As for me, I am just gonna move on with my life.

 

[54192&#cmy]

So A bunch of shin heads show up at a Jewish pride rally. Or a bunch of christians show up at a gay pride rally. If your showing up at a rally for something your against your only there looking for trouble. That's how wars start... I say if ya got nothing nice to say STFU!!!

 

[Detective Conan]

Yes there is. They are trying to impose legal implications purely based off religious contexts, which is devoid of all logic. Therefore it has absolutely no base at all in the context of law. Therefore you can say there is a ton wrong with it. That is one thing I will debate people on is if they base it off religion; it has no base at all.

I was only trying not to offend anyone who may hold that stance. Don't get your undies in a bunch.

 

[Kgal]

The reason why the religious fundamentalists are screaming about this issue is because their pastors/preachers/religious pulpit leaders are telling them to do this. The leaders are telling them to do this because they're getting paid to do so - by politicians who are voted in to office because the fundamentalists VOTE. The rest of us who are ambivalent need to vote...

Another thing that's going on in the West is the continuous "seemingly" erosion of the White dominant group's culture. They feel threatened by all the other culture's. And they assume it will influence their offspring.

The PEW report from 2008 on religion does indeed show a shift in movement from the typical Christian religions and heading towards a general belief in God - but not religion. They are losing ground - in the US (yay). http://pewresearch.org/pubs/743/united-states-religion


They are afraid.

And you know how powerful fear can be.

 

[Jack]

Who are the haters?

Yeah yeah, the Fundy religious nuts are the big bad guys, and we should all throw rocks at them.


Can we move on?

 

[Satya]

Yeah yeah, the Fundy religious nuts are the big bad guys, and we should all throw rocks at them.


Can we move on?

Actually, I was trying to present both sides of the debate.

 

[Satya]

Yes there is. They are trying to impose legal implications purely based off religious contexts, which is devoid of all logic. Therefore it has absolutely no base at all in the context of law. Therefore you can say there is a ton wrong with it. That is one thing I will debate people on is if they base it off religion; it has no base at all.

A secular case could be made against same sex marriage. They could argue that civil unions would better benefit society without endangering the traditions and gender roles that have long been affixed to marriage.

 

[IndigoSensor]

A secular case could be made against same sex marriage. They could argue that civil unions would better benefit society without endangering the traditions and gender roles that have long been affixed to marriage.

Then the nature of civil unions needs to be changed to have equal legal rights to marriege, or the laws of marriege needs to be change to match that of civil unions.

(i've done these debates before, these people just shut down or I walk away)