That makes sense. It actually took me a couple months before I felt comfortable enough to really dive into the forum. Even now, there are still some things I don't really divulge. I don't think that's so much the forum, though, as the nature of INFJ
Forum Representation of INFJ Type
- Thread starter jn56uytrx
- Start date
Too infrequent, tovlo. Life does not always offer the idealistic means of self expression. My wife is throwing for the dogs with the TV on as I am writing this....they are barking.....same room. Life is full of opportunities and challenges....right now you have offered the opportunity and I am dealing with challenges...so life goes. I like to be mentally challenged to express self, though not through noise and other obstacles. When I started typing, I had so much to say. The distractions of life have had my heart run into a wall of frustration. Frustration shows a vulnerable part of my self.
What is going on in my living room has nothing to do with my heart and mind, so I cannot offer what I wanted to offer here and now. I have special times alone undisturbed when I feel I can better express self, but wanted to share the difficulties at least I am faced with when starting something I cannot finish at the time. My lack of communication is somewhat temporal right now, but it was a great opportunity to say hello and how much I enjoy your posts.
Sorry for my abandonment of this thread. Some personal things came up late last weekend that have kept me away.
arbygil - loved your description of the forum as a family reunion complete with crazy uncles and all.
anica - I very much relate to your comments about withholding to some degree and fear of not being able to defend your positions. I also relate to that.
I don't have much of a circle of intimates right now. I think that part of me hoped to find that among common infj souls. I do tend to withhold, but I tend to do it with those I sense will not be receptive rather than with those more distant vs. more intimate. I can pretty comfortably share a great deal of myself with a virtual stranger if I sense common ground and receptivity. On the other hand I have co-workers who I suspect know little about me even after a year of working 40 hrs/wk side by side because I sense who I am would not be received well.
I guess I had hoped this would be an environment where I'd sense the resonance and feel the flow. I sense my style of communication is different from what I predominately experience here and so I feel the reserve of doubt about whether my expression fits and would be well-received. I do wonder if it isn't in part the medium. Perhaps if I were sitting face-to-face with some of you and could read the non-verbal signals I'd get a very different sense and would feel more secure in my expression.
At any rate, may I stay at the reunion? I may not be a really entrenched part of the family, more a distant relative who just hangs around the edges, but I am glad you haven't asked me to leave yet. Hope you won't mind if I keep hanging around the edges and throwing in a thought here or there.
arbygil - loved your description of the forum as a family reunion complete with crazy uncles and all.
anica - I very much relate to your comments about withholding to some degree and fear of not being able to defend your positions. I also relate to that.
I don't have much of a circle of intimates right now. I think that part of me hoped to find that among common infj souls. I do tend to withhold, but I tend to do it with those I sense will not be receptive rather than with those more distant vs. more intimate. I can pretty comfortably share a great deal of myself with a virtual stranger if I sense common ground and receptivity. On the other hand I have co-workers who I suspect know little about me even after a year of working 40 hrs/wk side by side because I sense who I am would not be received well.
I guess I had hoped this would be an environment where I'd sense the resonance and feel the flow. I sense my style of communication is different from what I predominately experience here and so I feel the reserve of doubt about whether my expression fits and would be well-received. I do wonder if it isn't in part the medium. Perhaps if I were sitting face-to-face with some of you and could read the non-verbal signals I'd get a very different sense and would feel more secure in my expression.
At any rate, may I stay at the reunion? I may not be a really entrenched part of the family, more a distant relative who just hangs around the edges, but I am glad you haven't asked me to leave yet.
Hope you won't mind if I keep hanging around the edges and throwing in a thought here or there.
Sorry for my abandonment of this thread. Some personal things came up late last weekend that have kept me away.
arbygil - loved your description of the forum as a family reunion complete with crazy uncles and all.
anica - I very much relate to your comments about withholding to some degree and fear of not being able to defend your positions. I also relate to that.
I don't have much of a circle of intimates right now. I think that part of me hoped to find that among common infj souls. I do tend to withhold, but I tend to do it with those I sense will not be receptive rather than with those more distant vs. more intimate. I can pretty comfortably share a great deal of myself with a virtual stranger if I sense common ground and receptivity. On the other hand I have co-workers who I suspect know little about me even after a year of working 40 hrs/wk side by side because I sense who I am would not be received well.
I guess I had hoped this would be an environment where I'd sense the resonance and feel the flow. I sense my style of communication is different from what I predominately experience here and so I feel the reserve of doubt about whether my expression fits and would be well-received. I do wonder if it isn't in part the medium. Perhaps if I were sitting face-to-face with some of you and could read the non-verbal signals I'd get a very different sense and would feel more secure in my expression.
At any rate, may I stay at the reunion? I may not be a really entrenched part of the family, more a distant relative who just hangs around the edges, but I am glad you haven't asked me to leave yet.
You're always welcome, tovlo - and look, I saved you a seat at the picnic table!
You're always welcome, tovlo - and look, I saved you a seat at the picnic table!
Ahh, that made me smile. Thank you!
I've been thinking about this thread for a while and have been trying to muster an opinion on the matter. I do not believe that this forum really represents a whole view of what it means to be an INFJ. Part of the inconsistency for me is the questionable basis of most of the younger members self evaluation on being an INFJ. I think it's very easy to take a test and score INFJ and run with it. Some members are so flippant in their regards to what MBTI types they are, it's clear that they don't have a decent grasp of the concept.
The emphasis on banter and quick fire remarks over deep exploration and genuine discussions is frustrating. It feels hard to crack the surface. Some members fit right in, other skirt the borders, though, their post counts and sincerity suggest they long to be included. I don't know about anyone else, but this behaviour mirrors the everyday life of the typical INFJ social alienation and seclusion. So, the constant insistence that we are somehow special, or the rarest type makes me want to vomit, because sometimes I feel the so called "INFJ environment" here acts the same way most other social circles do in the everyday world- there is no difference to me.
I know I am one of the "young ones" and I probably contribute to the above issues. But I feel there are many people on here that I would love to converse with, especially the older and more mature members, I tend to get on with older people anyway. I don't know how to engage them. If there are people on here that feel that meaningful discussions are being neglected, I'm sorry to here that, because that's what I would prefer, to be honest. But at the same time I'm not sure whether my behaviour is even conducive to that.
The issue of withholidng is something I have an opposite problem with. I tend to over extend my emotional reach, meaning, I release too much in order connect with people. I don't know if that comes across as gushy or worse, emotionally immature. It's really just an attempt to really delve in and show what's on offer. If people interpret that emotional forwardness as immaturity or as "undeveloped" INFJ traits, it's a shame. Maybe it is, I really don't know.
The emphasis on banter and quick fire remarks over deep exploration and genuine discussions is frustrating. It feels hard to crack the surface. Some members fit right in, other skirt the borders, though, their post counts and sincerity suggest they long to be included. I don't know about anyone else, but this behaviour mirrors the everyday life of the typical INFJ social alienation and seclusion. So, the constant insistence that we are somehow special, or the rarest type makes me want to vomit, because sometimes I feel the so called "INFJ environment" here acts the same way most other social circles do in the everyday world- there is no difference to me.
I know I am one of the "young ones" and I probably contribute to the above issues. But I feel there are many people on here that I would love to converse with, especially the older and more mature members, I tend to get on with older people anyway. I don't know how to engage them. If there are people on here that feel that meaningful discussions are being neglected, I'm sorry to here that, because that's what I would prefer, to be honest. But at the same time I'm not sure whether my behaviour is even conducive to that.
The issue of withholidng is something I have an opposite problem with. I tend to over extend my emotional reach, meaning, I release too much in order connect with people. I don't know if that comes across as gushy or worse, emotionally immature. It's really just an attempt to really delve in and show what's on offer. If people interpret that emotional forwardness as immaturity or as "undeveloped" INFJ traits, it's a shame. Maybe it is, I really don't know.
Is there anything particularly wrong with that? Most INFJs long to be an integral part of the regular model of socializing, but often feel left out because what they think and feel is too hard to explain or comprehend for other types. This is a social environment that is a lot more inclusive than most.
For instance, in most social environments I can't just air my random thoughts on stuff. If I do, I get odd looks at best. I almost certainly won't find anyone really agreeing with me or continuing my thoughts to any logical conclusions. Here I can do that, and that's great, I think.
For me it's not so much about being heard or even about having deep conversations (although some of the more mindless derailing bugs me a little :tongue
but just knowing there's a place for me where I can socialize without fear of being considered odd, and even have people agree with me, understand or even respect my insights.
For me it's not so much about being heard or even about having deep conversations (although some of the more mindless derailing bugs me a little :tongue
Yes, I understand what you are saying Eniko and I agree. I guess I should be more grateful for this place.
I think, since I'm new to posting (not new to reading though), that I tend towards more flip banter type responses. It takes me a while to trust people, especially those people behind my computer screen. There are some things I would never divulge here, same as in real life.
However, I get a sense from every post and every person that makes me feel like I'm not so different after all. Well, I'm different from most of the people in the world, but not from most of the people here. I feel that in the bantering as well as in the deeper discussions.
I do feel that 90% of the population here is at least 20 years younger than me and it may be hard for me to relate to some of the situations.
There is a topic that I'd like to start but I'm still a bit fearful, especially after reading in this thread that some people have started threads that have gone nowhere. So for now I'm a responder, but I'm enjoying mostly all of the topics.
I think this community is representative of INFJs, although I do not have any friends that are INFJ, so it's hard to say. I'm the only one I know. Why do other types join this forum?
However, I get a sense from every post and every person that makes me feel like I'm not so different after all. Well, I'm different from most of the people in the world, but not from most of the people here. I feel that in the bantering as well as in the deeper discussions.
I do feel that 90% of the population here is at least 20 years younger than me and it may be hard for me to relate to some of the situations.
There is a topic that I'd like to start but I'm still a bit fearful, especially after reading in this thread that some people have started threads that have gone nowhere. So for now I'm a responder, but I'm enjoying mostly all of the topics.
I think this community is representative of INFJs, although I do not have any friends that are INFJ, so it's hard to say. I'm the only one I know. Why do other types join this forum?
That's something I grapple with a lot. Starting a thread about something and being fearful that people will either ignore it or just not "get it". Chances are though, people will.
- Nov 12, 2008
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Who cares? I have started many a thread that were misunderstood or died rather quickly, the point is for you to get the idea out there. You won't know until you actually try.
I agree. Perhaps you could be making some sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy of being misunderstood or being unaccessible to the medium through which others speak? That is not me saying, "GRR! YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE PEOPLE HERE!11" but I am thinking that by thinking of something as hopeless or a lost cause we end up making it -just- that.
S
Shai Gar
I've started threads that were just meant to be fluff, and they took off in a big way.
You've got to post the thread if you want anyone to look at it.
You've got to post the thread if you want anyone to look at it.
I care. After years of getting ideas "out there" and being, at best, misunderstood, and at worst, ridiculed, I'm hesitant to put any ideas out there. I have no self-esteem left.
Ah, to be 20 again.
It's okay to care about stuff that you think other people probably won't.
This sounds more like a trust/ self-esteem issue. You don't know whether or not to trust us and don't want the blow to your self-esteem if your crusades don't spark something from other.
Really, you should face this fear, and what better place than here?
Lots of us have things, opinions, and stances that others here won't agree with. Some of us have opinions that are down right offensive to tender NF sensibilities.
Tell ya what. PM me with your idea and I'll post the thread.
That way if it fails it's my fault!
Well, that's probably where the INFJ personality representation problem partly comes from :
A lot of use are afraid to write about things that are very private/personal/deep and hard to explain, afraid that something so important to them is going to be overlooked for other "easier" threads. So people might just not try, in case it should "fail" (whatever that can mean). And in the end everybody misses out on a topic that might have hit it right on the nail.
I think Tolvo you're not the only one who has this issue - but the kind of INFJs who have this issue in general won't write about it.
You are right : this is a forum, and therefore functions as a forum. It is always easier to answer lighter threads. Answering more complicated (and more important) threads requires time, time to think, to phrase. A lot of us probably don't have that much time to spend here (at least I know I struggle to keep up with everything) and so they might pick the easy option. A long answer takes me a long time - thirty minutes, more (besides I'm not English native so it's even worse)This is a big place. Maybe it would be easier if it was smaller, but then you would have less chances of people giving you the answer you're looking for.
The other thing to take into account is also the fact that a fair amount of us are probably looking for some kind of community in which they feel more at ease than in the external world, and therefore spend more time socialising (in quicker threads).
I know a few INFJs in real life (three or four, apart from myself) and it's true I don't get the impression they are quite like people here. But that's real life, and this is a forum. Introverts on forums don't have the same communication/social problems than in the outside world, and sometimes probably let loose. To me this cannot be an accurate representation of the INFJ type because the forum is a social tool, a language tool.
You can't see here every member's long moments of thoughts, of solitude, of connexion with the inner self. So much goes on inside my head every day, so much of it is not translatable into words, let alone to share with others. Sometimes I can't even grasp all that is going on beneath the surface... I would love to be able to get someone else's opinion on it, but it would require for the other person to know me as well as I know myself, and I know that's not going to happen.
I realise I'm not offering a solution to the problem... Wish I could!
A lot of use are afraid to write about things that are very private/personal/deep and hard to explain, afraid that something so important to them is going to be overlooked for other "easier" threads. So people might just not try, in case it should "fail" (whatever that can mean). And in the end everybody misses out on a topic that might have hit it right on the nail.
I think Tolvo you're not the only one who has this issue - but the kind of INFJs who have this issue in general won't write about it.
You are right : this is a forum, and therefore functions as a forum. It is always easier to answer lighter threads. Answering more complicated (and more important) threads requires time, time to think, to phrase. A lot of us probably don't have that much time to spend here (at least I know I struggle to keep up with everything) and so they might pick the easy option. A long answer takes me a long time - thirty minutes, more (besides I'm not English native so it's even worse
)This is a big place. Maybe it would be easier if it was smaller, but then you would have less chances of people giving you the answer you're looking for.The other thing to take into account is also the fact that a fair amount of us are probably looking for some kind of community in which they feel more at ease than in the external world, and therefore spend more time socialising (in quicker threads).
I know a few INFJs in real life (three or four, apart from myself) and it's true I don't get the impression they are quite like people here. But that's real life, and this is a forum. Introverts on forums don't have the same communication/social problems than in the outside world, and sometimes probably let loose. To me this cannot be an accurate representation of the INFJ type because the forum is a social tool, a language tool.
You can't see here every member's long moments of thoughts, of solitude, of connexion with the inner self. So much goes on inside my head every day, so much of it is not translatable into words, let alone to share with others. Sometimes I can't even grasp all that is going on beneath the surface... I would love to be able to get someone else's opinion on it, but it would require for the other person to know me as well as I know myself, and I know that's not going to happen.
I realise I'm not offering a solution to the problem... Wish I could!
I thrive on face to face contact/ I look for all sorts of visual clues to connect with people. Somethings that is pretty much impossible online. Its an odd INFj thing I think, to want inside of other people so bad, to connect on this transcendent level, but to be unwilling to share much of yourself. Its kind of unfair, when you think about it.
I'm a pretty complex person. People tend to see whatever side of me they're willing to see. And I like that. It would take years to know everything about me. And that's not a privledge I extend to most people because.. I don't know. I'm arrogant and haughty with my affections?
Personally tovlo, I really love your posts, the elegant and thoughtful way you communicate, and find ressonance with them frequently. Even though it wouldn't seem like it because I'm random and flip and brash. Defense mechanism on my part, not to be very serious because its easier to pretend to not care when you really care too much. I don't know.
Don't ask me...."We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing!" My life is pretty much a Coen Brothers movie with a little bit of David Lynch and Cronenberg tossed into the mix. I'm the last person who should be talking about perspective. Heh.
I'm a pretty complex person. People tend to see whatever side of me they're willing to see. And I like that. It would take years to know everything about me. And that's not a privledge I extend to most people because.. I don't know. I'm arrogant and haughty with my affections?
Personally tovlo, I really love your posts, the elegant and thoughtful way you communicate, and find ressonance with them frequently. Even though it wouldn't seem like it because I'm random and flip and brash. Defense mechanism on my part, not to be very serious because its easier to pretend to not care when you really care too much. I don't know.
Don't ask me...."We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing!" My life is pretty much a Coen Brothers movie with a little bit of David Lynch and Cronenberg tossed into the mix. I'm the last person who should be talking about perspective. Heh.
It's okay to care about stuff that you think other people probably won't.
This sounds more like a trust/ self-esteem issue. You don't know whether or not to trust us and don't want the blow to your self-esteem if your crusades don't spark something from other.
Really, you should face this fear, and what better place than here?
Lots of us have things, opinions, and stances that others here won't agree with. Some of us have opinions that are down right offensive to tender NF sensibilities.
Tell ya what. PM me with your idea and I'll post the thread.
Thanks, I might take you up on that.