Drug Bust at Columbia University

IndigoSensor

IndigoSensor

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Factoring in an incident that recently occured in my personal life, I still can't really get over this. I am amazed because one of the students arrested, sat next to me in AP biology (as well as having other classes together), and graduated number 2 in my class out of 900 students. The guy is brilliant.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/columbia-university-students-nailed-york-drug-bust/story?id=12335634

To take a quick excerpt from the article:

Five students at prestigious Columbia University in New York City have been arrested for allegedly selling drugs out of fraternity houses and dorms. The arrests follow a five month investigation known as "Operation Ivy League." The students, all undergraduates, are accused of selling a "variety of drugs, including cocaine, marijuana, ectasty, Adderall and LSD," according to a statement released by Special Narcotics Prosecutor Bridget Brennan.
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This has really gotten me thinking about drug laws in general. To me this seems like a victimless crime, and it pains me to see that these students have been arrested. Their lives are completely over, done, fineto. I wouldn't be surprised if each of them ends up in jail for a decade or more. This really begs the question, did they actually do anything wrong? To me I don't understand why certain drugs are illegal, to me they shouldn't be. If they are done in the right setting with care and focus, they are more safe then something like alcohol, which causes many deaths every year. Yet, these substances are viewed in such a negative light because of the crime (not the drug law violations themselves) associated with them. I personally believe it is the illegality of these substances that makes things worse. I really honestly truly feel bad for these students, including the one I knew personally.

Discuss.
 
Schedule I(total ban): Marijuana
Schedule II(medical use): amphetamines

We're insane

/thread
 
I agree with your views for the most part Indigo. BTW, were any of them actually manufacturing, or just dealing? It wouldn't really change my views, I'm just curious.

It is unfortunate that they were busted, but at the same time dealing directly to college kids is playing with fire. You never know who might end up getting caught under the influence and wilting under the scrutiny of the police or an angry parent, aside from the possibility of getting caught by a narc. Aside from this, I wonder what their motivation was. Due to the array of substances sold, I can't help but to guess it was strictly for money, and in that case, that's just part of the game.
 
Sloe Djinn said:
Aside from this, I wonder what their motivation was. Due to the array of substances sold, I can't help but to guess it was strictly for money, and in that case, that's just part of the game.
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It probably was for money, but to me personally it doesn't make a difference. The people buying were knowing adults, and things like this happen on college campuses around the world. Lock away these guys, and five more will take their place. It's a business, and it does have the potential to harm people, but look at our own government. We make a literal killing in arms sales. Not that the two are the same, but it makes me wonder where the motives of the government as a whole lay. Locking up small time drug dealers is a waste of money.
 
Yeah, the drug laws really go overboard in persecuting people, especially for something like pot or ecstasy. Hell the latter just makes you happy and dehydrated. I knew a girl who use to go to raves and take E and the worst it did to her was probably the hearing loss from the music. She seems perfectly fine otherwise, and better emotionally and physically than everyone else I knew at the time.
The worst thing is, the tighter the restrictions, the more the black market makes selling drugs. If it were all de-criminalized the price would plummet. Black market would move on.
 
IndigoSensor said:
Factoring in an incident that recently occured in my personal life, I still can't really get over this. I am amazed because one of the students arrested, sat next to me in AP biology (as well as having other classes together), and graduated number 2 in my class out of 900 students. The guy is brilliant.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/columbia-university-students-nailed-york-drug-bust/story?id=12335634

To take a quick excerpt from the article:



This has really gotten me thinking about drug laws in general. To me this seems like a victimless crime, and it pains me to see that these students have been arrested. Their lives are completely over, done, fineto. I wouldn't be surprised if each of them ends up in jail for a decade or more. This really begs the question, did they actually do anything wrong? To me I don't understand why certain drugs are illegal, to me they shouldn't be. If they are done in the right setting with care and focus, they are more safe then something like alcohol, which causes many deaths every year. Yet, these substances are viewed in such a negative light because of the crime (not the drug law violations themselves) associated with them. I personally believe it is the illegality of these substances that makes things worse. I really honestly truly feel bad for these students, including the one I knew personally.

Discuss.
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Your perspective on it its pretty much mine Indy, I am very liberal when it comes to this sorts of issues. This should not be illegal, and it royally sucks that their lives got screwed over when they could have done something worst. We live in a irrational society, where silly crimes like this one are penalized more than they should be and are compared to offenses that are much worst. Personally knowing the risks(legal not health as I am aware that they tend to be even less harmful than alcohol under appropriate conditions) I would be very cautious on selling/using drugs but this is an issue that needs to be resolved, to charge so much is simply ludicrous.
 
I mean, I don't need anymore negative rep. So I'll leave this topic alone.
 
Urtehnoes said:
I mean, I don't need anymore negative rep. So I'll leave this topic alone.
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I'm curious to hear a pro drug enforcement( i assume since you fear neg reps and no one has taken the pro side)
 
mf said:
It probably was for money, but to me personally it doesn't make a difference. The people buying were knowing adults, and things like this happen on college campuses around the world. Lock away these guys, and five more will take their place. It's a business, and it does have the potential to harm people, but look at our own government. We make a literal killing in arms sales. Not that the two are the same, but it makes me wonder where the motives of the government as a whole lay. Locking up small time drug dealers is a waste of money.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, and I agree that the idea of locking up the dealers is futile in the context of the "wawr awn drugz an turr." I was coming at it from a different angle though, that being: considering how things are currently, as smart as these guys may have been with academia, they were sloppy if they were dealing point blank with their clients. It's a dangerous game to be playing, and the utmost precautions need to be taken if that is the game one chooses to play. It's easy to overlook the countless ways in which you can get busted, just like it's easy to overlook the countless circumstances that can get you hooked on something hard.

It's sad that good people sometimes throw their lives away on drugs, but it's also sad that good people end up locked up for a dime or more because they didn't realize how dangerously they were living by supplying.

I do have mixed feelings about total legalization, especially of hard drugs, but I don't see all users as junkies, and I don't see all dealers as monsters.
 
I am very anti-drug in many ways. I feel that if you know the laws then you know what the consequences are if you get caught. I don't care how brilliant someone is, if you're going to take the risk then it's your own fault if your life is ruined because of it.

That being said, I think your drug laws down in the USA are insane. I don't think that selling drugs should be punished as severely as it is. I don't think that selling drugs should necessarily be illegal, but I also don't think that it should ruin someone's life because of the punishment laid down against it.

I feel like I would rather go out and get a real job as opposed to risking my future to make some fast cash. But I like to play it safe and to the right thing and probably couldn't live with myself if I was caught doing something I knew was against the law.

Again, if you know the consequences of your actions and you do them anyway you automatically put yourself at risk. But people who take drugs and deal drugs are treated like the absolute scum of the earth and that is something that I don't quite understand.

I think that even if substances were made legal by the government that people buying them would still be looked down upon for "substance abuse." If it's legal, the government knows you're doing it. If it's not, then you can keep it to yourself and people will be none the wiser.
 
USA has the highest prison population per capita for a reason and they're certainly not going to let that go.
 
sandra_b said:
I think that even if substances were made legal by the government that people buying them would still be looked down upon for "substance abuse." If it's legal, the government knows you're doing it. If it's not, then you can keep it to yourself and people will be none the wiser.
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It's not cool to smoke in Amsterdam.
 
I'm strongly supporting legalisation of drugs because I don't think that governments do have any control over use of drugs the way they are handling it now.

But legalisation in itself is not enough, people need to be educated and to be aware what they are taking, because you can't just say that because you know someone who takes E and haven't really had any serious consequences besides dehydration, that it's a safe drug. Dehydration is a serious thing, and many of those people who take E on raves are taking it with energy drinks which can be a lethal combination. So besides just legalising, people need to have a strong education about what might be the consequences of their acts.

I don't really feel sorry for the guys who got busted because they were old enough to know what the consequences are if they get busted, they had to now the rules of the game, and they took a risk anyway. If they are really brilliant, even when they get out of jail (if they end up there in the first place), they'll find a way to show that brilliance to the world, hopefully in a more productive manner.
 
Siamese cat said:
I don't really feel sorry for the guys who got busted because they were old enough to know what the consequences are if they get busted, they had to now the rules of the game, and they took a risk anyway. If they are really brilliant, even when they get out of jail (if they end up there in the first place), they'll find a way to show that brilliance to the world, hopefully in a more productive manner.
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So, you dont feel sorry for them because they took a risk and got caught...

Why root for big brother in this case,
especially when you favor drug legalization?

I feel sorry for anyone that goes to jail for something as petty as this. It's not like they were running a meth lab...

I'm pretty disgusted with our gov't.

All this energy focused on all the wrong things...

This is madness.

Someone, please come forth with a good reason why these kids should go to jail.
I won't neg rep you.
 
myself said:
So, you dont feel sorry for them because they took a risk and got caught...

Why root for big brother in this case,
especially when you favor drug legalization?
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One thing is to fight for the legalisation and completely another to break the law even when the law is not good in your opinion.

I really doubt that they sold drugs because it's their way of protesting against drug policies in their country, they did it for the profit probably.

There are ways battles should be lead for the cause and I'm not going to feel sorry for someone doing something illegal willingly just because I don't like the law.
 
sandra_b said:
I am very anti-drug in many ways. I feel that if you know the laws then you know what the consequences are if you get caught. I don't care how brilliant someone is, if you're going to take the risk then it's your own fault if your life is ruined because of it.

That being said, I think your drug laws down in the USA are insane. I don't think that selling drugs should be punished as severely as it is. I don't think that selling drugs should necessarily be illegal, but I also don't think that it should ruin someone's life because of the punishment laid down against it.

I feel like I would rather go out and get a real job as opposed to risking my future to make some fast cash. But I like to play it safe and to the right thing and probably couldn't live with myself if I was caught doing something I knew was against the law.

Again, if you know the consequences of your actions and you do them anyway you automatically put yourself at risk. But people who take drugs and deal drugs are treated like the absolute scum of the earth and that is something that I don't quite understand.

I think that even if substances were made legal by the government that people buying them would still be looked down upon for "substance abuse." If it's legal, the government knows you're doing it. If it's not, then you can keep it to yourself and people will be none the wiser.
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...+1, kinda. Especially to the bolded part.

I am quite flummoxed. To be honest I am anti-drug and won't use any. Granted, culture plays a huge part in this; I also dislikes alcohol albeit to a lesser degree, and I don't know how -not- dangerous they are, or how -actually- dangerous they are so I can't say much, but for me the usage of drugs itself sounds....bluntly speaking, escapism. Temporary. And...muh. Wasteful. Around here, there are stories where people destroyed their own life and others, and that kind of thing bottling and exploding out of addiction to drugs is really bad. Addiction is a bad thing, no matter on what. (But I suppose it's more me against addiction rather than drugs. Ah well)

I understand the reason (letting go of control and troubles, the sensation, or simply put having fun) but don't understand the reason. To each their own, however. As long as you stop at a point and don't destroy your life over this, I'm totally alright.

However, the stigma associated to ALL drug users, light or heavy, is kinda wrong too. It's like generalizing light drinkers together with heavy drinkers. Or a S&M practitioner with orgytastic incestuous pedophilic rapist. No. It's wrong.

And if watching drug usage (like alcohol) is what the government wants to do, control is better than prevention. Like distributing birth control pills to avoid abortion, as opposed to......abstinence. At least for a government like USA's. I don't think it reaches Big Brother level of control, but I certainly don't see it as freeing...or effective at this case.

For these kid-- ahem, seniors (...I forgot my position, sorry.), however.....there's simply this fact that distributing isn't as innocent as using. Especially if it's against the law. The law may be nonsense, but they are, as much as the user, complete adults who should -know- that the law exists.
 
There seems to be more open discussion lately in US society about the logic behind our drug laws. Especially when it comes to Marijuana.
I am happy to see this.

The laws are so skewed.
Someone caught dealing a relatively small amount of drugs may get 10 years in prison. But if you kill someone while driving drunk you might get a year in the county workhouse or less.
I am afraid though that there are so many bureaucracies in our government dependent on the money that comes from the war on drugs that they will fight tooth and nail any attempted change in policy.

IMHO, alcohol is a far more dangerous substance and causes far more harm to society than mild drugs such as Marijuana.
All I can say is that on the few occasions I got in trouble with the law was when I was drinking.
Never when stoned, tripping, or amped out on Cocaine.

Really if given the choice, I would rather get stoned than have a drink any day.

The War on Drugs.
Just say "Yo! Thanks man!"
 
Government and Drug money

MindYourHead said:
There seems to be more open discussion lately in US society about the logic behind our drug laws. Especially when it comes to Marijuana.
I am happy to see this.

The laws are so skewed.
Someone caught dealing a relatively small amount of drugs may get 10 years in prison. But if you kill someone while driving drunk you might get a year in the county workhouse or less.
I am afraid though that there are so many bureaucracies in our government dependent on the money that comes from the war on drugs that they will fight tooth and nail any attempted change in policy.

IMHO, alcohol is a far more dangerous substance and causes far more harm to society than mild drugs such as Marijuana.
All I can say is that on the few occasions I got in trouble with the law was when I was drinking.
Never when stoned, tripping, or amped out on Cocaine.

Really if given the choice, I would rather get stoned than have a drink any day.

The War on Drugs.
Just say "Yo! Thanks man!"
Click to expand...

My best friends in the police force for 20 years always said - if there's no victim there's no crime.

IMO - people should have the right to do their drug(s) of choice as long as they are adults and realize what they're doing to their body/brain. On the other hand - I am very much against teenagers doing any kind of chemical where it inhibits the brain functioning. The long term affects can be life long.

One of my best friends was a Major in the National Guard down here for many years. He discovered evidence of a Marshall dealing and trafficing in drugs from Mexico back around 8 years ago. He presented the evidence to many of his superiors, all the while worrying there would be repercussions from this, at it took him a year of trying before anyone would listen to him and take some kind of action. In fact the General who finally did - asked him why did he take so long to come forward...My friend said - you are the first one to respond out of all 12 of the ones I went to.

I have other true stories that demonstrate anyone and everyone in a government position - from the DEA to the Judges - is being paid to lubricate that pipeline of drugs.

Here's a recent account from a summary I received from the "Semiannual Reports to Congress".
http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/ig/Pages/semiannual_reports_index.aspx

As a result of a joint investigation with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, a Treasury official was indicted, pled guilty, and sentenced in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia on two counts of unlawful distribution of methamphetamines.
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IMO methamphetimine is the worst drug ever made for it's addictive quality and destruction of the brain/body.
That official should be hung - in public. But we will never see this in the news I bet....

[MENTION=1355]MindYourHead[/MENTION] said it best. There is too much money to be made by the one's in control the flow of drugs through the US for them to let it go.

Let's face it - the "Good" political figures of this country really know what's best for us - right?????

Bah...

Those kids at Columbia should be made to go through 28 days of rehab and then let go. They'd see first hand the ramifications of doing drugs/alcohol. Maybe it would let them see the consequences of their actions on others.

I do not think they'll learn anything like that in jail. From what I've witnessed - Jail will teach them to be hard, bitter, and to hate...
 
Sloe Djinn said:
... they were sloppy if they were dealing point blank with their clients. ...
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Hmm, maybe they were the middle men? :( Poor guys if thats the case. They thought they were making easy money but they were just a buffer between the law and the distributer. I agree they should have known what they were getting into but I don't like people getting duped.
 
Im glad to see law breakers go to jail. Apperantly your friend isnt so brilliant.
 
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