[PUG] Unhealthy INFJs Cannot Freely Tolerate Public Opinion

[InvisibleJim]

I didn't take it that way and I usually take offense to everything. I just thought the word unhealthy was a poor choice of words and just added confusion to the question.

What can I say. I can but try but I can't please everyone.

@InvisibleJim Any type or person can be unhealthy. Why are you asking?

I'm merely investigating if this is either a quandary of the Fe archetype in the dominant position or in the parent position. I've seen it occur with a few INFJs online. I have thought before that this would be a quandary of Fe in the dominant role; however after consideration I pondered that it may be an Fe parent screening and protecting the Ni dominant.

I considered therefore that a generalised inquiry would assist me in discovering more.

It also is an important realisation when considering the role of Te in the xTJ types.

The mind boggles and the minds of us self declared introverts are more boggling than most.

 

[Jana]

Let's face it - we all like to be right. Being able to accept different views is sign of maturity,no matter what type we are...

 

[Gaze]

Let's face it - we all like to be right. Being able to accept different views is sign of maturity,no matter what type we are...

And even if we don't accept them, the ability to recognize and understand different views is a good thing.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I accpet rantional or reasonable different views. But I can't respect others when they have views that make no sense, are hurtful toward others or are just wrong. IE extremists, those who lack empathy, bigoets and haters, those who refuse to live in anything but the past /present , and those who are excessively ethnocentric. I refuse to be cultrual realtvie. There is a wrong and right answer. I rally don't care if I'm right, I just want to know the right answer.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

INFJs are definitely capable of being intolerant. A lot of times, INFJs can end up being moral elitists, if they don't check themselves (I would say when they're unhealthy, but apparently that's controversial vocab right now :B )

It is a little Fe, which is very much if-you-don't-have-something-nice-to-say-then-shut-up, and Ni, which "knows" it's right at times, and Ti, which challenges and questions.

I know in some of my less positive times, I've been incredibly impatient with ignorance, bigotry, and general stupidity. The problem is, when you're in a cynical place, almost everything sounds ignorant, bigoted, or stupid.

 

[Trifoilum]

I have noted that is a tendancy for some of the INFJs I know to be unable to accept that people both have a right to their own opinion and a right to voice that as they so choose.

Is this Fe run wild or just some other unhealthy INFJ behaviour from an unhealthy INFJ?



The mind does boggle.

I agreed, it's very possible that this might not be limited to INFJs (in every sense). If talking about INFJs....I think the case is more complicated...

being unhealthy is the quickest answer; most common, most believable, most PC.
Other than that,
there's a matter of belief. (Does every human have the same level of voice? Does common sense matters? Does emotion matters?) Of aggression (and everything relating to them), there's also a matter of viewpoint; how the particular INFJ sees humanity as a whole by itself. Then how the particular INFJ sees the people they're associating on themselves. If they sees humanity as a whole as gullible, unknowing sheeps as a whole, then sees the people they're associating as nothing special.....then yeaaaah, it could went that way.

Then there's the matter of 'subject'. What kind of subject? I would say expertise also counts here; not to mention interest, intensity, and importance.

The function? Probably Fe and Ti, working together to protect Ni. Depending on the level of aggression, the person could actively do what you're talking about, or just...passively. That inability to accept other people's voice can be voiced...or not.(read; holier / smarter / better-than-thou, or determined obstinacy)

 

[Saru Inc]

"I have noted that is a tendancy for some of the INFJs I know to be unable to accept that people both have a right to their own opinion and a right to voice that as they so choose.

Is this Fe run wild or just some other unhealthy INFJ behaviour from an unhealthy INFJ?



The mind does boggle."


This can be a bit of a conundrum. The INFJ as a personality is, as well all know, secondarily controlled by Fe. So INFJs do have a tendency to want to quiet the individual people who are in a sense going against the grain of the group. The difference is, (where Ni comes in), what are their motives? Is the group being unreasonable, and the person coming across harsher than they mean? Is the person just causing trouble just because they want to? I think this is where the notion of INFJs being "complex" come in, when really most of us aren't that complex at all, just how we appear. Our Fe, what we show to the external world, will make us want to shut out the dissenting opinions, taking away their right to speak, and in some cases their right to their opinions. ("shut up! You're wrong and an idiot, and thats that!") But then, you have the dominant Ni that seeks to understand all that is, so if the Ni dictates that someone does hold a valid opinion, perhaps one it either finds kinship in, it will then say "let them speak!" So here we have a person who half the time is shutting people up, the other half allowing them to speak at the weirdest times. INFJs HATE it when people are put into boxes, not in an INFP sense, but in the sense of people are afraid to speak their mind, due to the consequences placed upon the act of speaking out. Ni wants the truth to be held, and the Fe to spread to the people. Can an INFJ act immaturely and say "you have no right to that opinion!" (or in a literal sense) "you have no right to voice that!" ? Yes. However, I'm more likely to place my chips on the XSFJ type to speak that, partly because an NiFe person is always going to understand where someone comes from, so they are going to let more people speak out, even if its against what the INFJ believes in, then most.

 

[arbygil]

It may depend on the Enneagram too, though. Folks can be far less tolerant with a different Enneagram classification. Or, they may be far less tolerant if they happen to be stronger judgers (or if they grew up in a home of primarily judgmental people).

It's hard to say it's INFJs in general. I'd say it's all probably due to environment, age (or maturity level), Enneagram, and level of health. These play a role in every life, though, and it doesn't necessarily apply to the INFJ life exclusively.

 

[myself]

'cannot freely tolerate public opinion'

perhaps this is a sign of great health.

public opinion can be ugly.
the public is not properly educated.
public opinion may be swayed by idiots.
the opinion of the masses is often fueled by propaganda.

how healthy is it to practice tolerance with the insane?
these people have mostly given up their ability to think for themselves.

i don't practice tolerance with a belligerent drunkard
i try to steer them in the best possible direction
the value of their opinion has been compromised
they are incoherent, they can not be trusted

public opinion is not necessarily something we should strive to accept or even tolerate

we can still love them, but we don't have to follow them
and we should not have to pretend if we don't approve of their actions/opinions

 

[Arsal]

'cannot freely tolerate public opinion'

perhaps this is a sign of great health.

public opinion can be ugly.
the public is not properly educated.
public opinion may be swayed by idiots.
the opinion of the masses is often fueled by propaganda.

how healthy is it to practice tolerance with the insane?
these people have mostly given up their ability to think for themselves.

i don't practice tolerance with a belligerent drunkard
i try to steer them in the best possible direction
the value of their opinion has been compromised
they are incoherent, they can not be trusted

public opinion is not necessarily something we should strive to accept or even tolerate

we can still love them, but we don't have to follow them
and we should not have to pretend if we don't approve of their actions/opinions

 

[aerosol]

most people are stupid, call me an elitist, but I trust would trust the opinion of one or a few qualified people over the public.

YEEESSS.

I love it everytime someone says "oh the majority thinks this so that makes it more likely to be true/right/whatever". Hahahaha. It makes the person look so naive.

 

[acd]

The worst sort of evil I've ever met were unstable INFJs.
Not being able to tolerate others opinions was just the very tippy top of the iceberg.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I don't think INFJs are particularly susceptible to being unable to tollerate other's views.

However, I think INFJs are especially adapt at psychologically suppressing other's views when they are bent on it.

 

[invisible]

give me your opinions, public. give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

 

[shafishstix]

To me i look at the agenda or intent behind peoples opinions. If "public opinion" is destructive in nature and the individual feels the need to voice their own opinion or to disagree, who is to say who is unhealthy?

Obviously as a minority they are viewed as being "unhealthy" and maladaptive, but who is to say they are wrong? After all they should be as entitled to think and feel liberally as much everyone else and to "not" feel pressured to hop on board with public opinion.

"Unhealthy" is a word used from the perspective of the majority.

 

[Zero Angel]

[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION] To be honest, this thread seems like a thinly veiled dig at IndigoSensor (an INFJ) because of his harsh opinion of you on PerN. Attaching the 'unhealthy INFJ' label seems like a fairly effective way to troll him and any other INFJs who may not happen to respect your opinion -- especially since it appears to be in the guise of genuine inquiry.

Good thread, nonetheless. However, it is made good due to people's responses to it.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Good thread, nonetheless. However, it is made good due to people's responses to it.

Now now Mr. Angel, Mr. Sensor is quite aware that I view him to be a particularly shallow individual who acts to stammer any sort of reasonable discussion based upon his lack of knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes and his trust in certain individuals; I'm also honest about that to anyone who asks or wishes to bring it up. If I wished to attack Mr. Sensor in his home it would not be a token gesture.

On some things we agree entirely, on others I find the man despicable, close minded and a manipulative busy body.

However, that is not the purpose of this thread and I'm disappointed you wish to suggest such hyperbole to derail the thread.

As you said 'it is a good thread', I would recommend that you add your opinion on the topic rather than hyperbole.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

@InvisibleJim To be honest, this thread seems like a thinly veiled dig at IndigoSensor (an INFJ) because of his harsh opinion of you on PerN. Attaching the 'unhealthy INFJ' label seems like a fairly effective way to troll him and any other INFJs who may not happen to respect your opinion -- especially since it appears to be in the guise of genuine inquiry.

Good thread, nonetheless. However, it is made good due to people's responses to it.

 

[InvisibleJim]

The worst sort of evil I've ever met were unstable INFJs.
Not being able to tolerate others opinions was just the very tippy top of the iceberg.

It's quite the conundrum to myself, the INTJ is viewed as 'unhealthy' when they express their opinions of what they think to the world by NF types. This is actually in direct contrast to MBTI where marked and expressed Fi tallies with functional development and is thus quite the opposite.

By contrast the INFJ is often viewed as 'healthy' when they act to 'create consensus' which is often misrepresented as 'enforce consensus'. This would imply a lack of Ti and individuality in the part of the INFJ and thus a lack of functional development.

The other query was regarding; could it simply be Fe dominance; the need to have enforced consensus is marked in the ExFJ types. Anyone who does not share the societal ethics require to serve penance and are a target.

Now, I'm not a great fan of the healthy/unhealthy labels at all, but I have noted the tendancy for NF types to appreciate them more than I; thus when I am in the NF domains I use those labels to optimize communication.

 

[Orion]

The worst sort of evil I've ever met were unstable INFJs.
Not being able to tolerate others opinions was just the very tippy top of the iceberg.

Two words: Inferior Te