[PUG] Unhealthy INFJs Cannot Freely Tolerate Public Opinion

[Detective Conan]

I have noted that is a tendancy for some of the INFJs I know to be unable to accept that people both have a right to their own opinion and a right to voice that as they so choose.

Is this Fe run wild or just some other unhealthy INFJ behaviour from an unhealthy INFJ?



The mind does boggle.

So... does that mean we don't have a right to question/discuss the opinions of others?

Sorry, this thread confuses me.

 

[Nixie]

[MENTION=3671]ultrauber[/MENTION];
What makes you think this isn't calm? Or are you exercising Fe? The debate seems rather healthy all things considered since their were allusions to some kind of conflict with Indy and whispers of "watchers".

 

[uuu]

[MENTION=3671]ultrauber[/MENTION];
What makes you think this isn't calm? Or are you exercising Fe? The debate seems rather healthy all things considered since their were allusions to some kind of conflict with Indy and whispers of "watchers".

I was going to get out of this thread but I got sucked back in...
I'm not sure what you mean by "exercising Fe" but that's the vibe I'm getting. Healthy discussion or not, I'm getting out of here.

 

[InvisibleJim]

So... does that mean we don't have a right to question/discuss the opinions of others?

Sorry, this thread confuses me.

As stated earlier the wording is intentional ambiguous to encourage open discussion and scintillating debate; I think it best if you interpret it as is; it tends to lead to lots of different and interesting ideas floating about.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

The funny thing is, INFJs often do feel as if they shouldn't question people at all.

Really, one of the worst places an INFJ can be is when they can't tolerate others but they won't say anything -- in other words, the ever-popular passive-aggressive 'martyr' syndrome

 

[shafishstix]

Might I also add a thank you to the 8 individuals who have offered me supportive reputation in this thread. Alas I have not had the time to reply to you all in depth - however, you should know that your kind words have proven quite the motivational treat to keep it going and to continue my inquiry.

Gawd... and what about those who dont agree or partially agree? Im definitely out of this one.

 

[Zero Angel]

The voicing of an opinion by a person that does not match the 'group'.

So IJ. It appears as if this thread seems to do the following.

1) Discuss the silencing of voices of dissent, minority opinion
2) Equate it to unhealthy behavior within the individual (possibly as indiscriminately unhealthy behavior)
3) Tie it in with Fe somehow.

Am I on the ball here?

I know your intended discussion is important. I'm just curious about the actual reasons that brought this up since they seem relevant to your discussions on PerN and elsewhere. Given that you're obviously hiding something, what with all the cloak and daggery and purposefully vague wording, I would just like you to come out and say what reasons prompt you to this discussion to remove any suspicions anyone may have about your motivations.

 

[bickelz]

The funny thing is, INFJs often do feel as if they shouldn't question people at all.

Really? I don't figure that to be true at all. We can be people pleasers but I think you would find a consensus here that the infjs on this forum do question people a lot. One of the greatest interests of the infj is to understand what motivates other people. I would say that we inherently question people all of the time.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I know your intended discussion is important. I'm just curious about the actual reasons that brought this up since they seem relevant to your discussions on PerN and elsewhere. Given that you're obviously hiding something, what with all the cloak and daggery and purposefully vague wording, I would just like you to come out and say what reasons prompt you to this discussion to remove any suspicions anyone may have about your motivations.

I have already said this posts ago, your accusation is near slander and [MENTION=453]Zero Angel[/MENTION] by accusing me of cloak and daggery and it is continually derailing the discussion.

I'm merely investigating if this is either a quandary of the Fe archetype in the dominant position or in the parent position. I've seen it occur with a few INFJs online. I have thought before that this would be a quandary of Fe in the dominant role; however after consideration I pondered that it may be an Fe parent screening and protecting the Ni dominant.

I considered therefore that a generalised inquiry would assist me in discovering more.

It also is an important realisation when considering the role of Te in the xTJ types.

The mind boggles and the minds of us self declared introverts are more boggling than most.

It is simply rude to ignore my earlier posts to generate imaginary dragons as a casus belli to stir up trouble.

The discussion is what it is - as I have said, if you do not appreciate it, then I recommend that you simply do not contribute.

 

[bickelz]

I think the disconnect between a strong Thinker and an INFJ Feeler is that the Thinker doesn't understand the seeminly irrational stance (against public opinion) while the INFJ is confused because their natural tendencies (Fe) are telling them that the argument (public opinion) isn't in the best interest of the group.

[MENTION=3096]Sonyab[/MENTION]

Do you think that this idea is somewhat paradoxical or at least ironic? I agree but here is what I am getting at...

1. Start with a problem that has to do with Public Opinion (health care, taxes, abortion, ect.)

2. The thinker uses logic/rationality to work through the problem and comes to a conclusion that way

3. The feeler uses, well, their feelings to tell them what is right for the group

So, what if they come to different conclusions? One conclusion has to be better for the people right? Wouldn't it be ironic that irrational thinking would come to a better conclusion than rational thinking (assuming it happens)?

And in these certain situations, would it be a paradox that the most rational form of thinking gives you the least rational answer?

Idk my bff Jill but I could be wrong here. Pry making massive generalizations too but I don't remember what this conversation was about.

 

[Zero Angel]

I have already said this posts ago, your accusation is near slander and @Zero Angel by accusing me of cloak and daggery and it is continually derailing the discussion.

I think that at 5 pages in, we have already breached the meat of the subject.

Fact is, I *am* accusing you of the following things:

1) Discussing the silencing of voices of dissent, minority opinion
2) Equating it to unhealthy behavior within the individual (possibly as indiscriminately unhealthy behavior)
3) Tieing it in with Fe somehow.

You have not addressed whether I am right about those things or not. You just conveniently ignored that.

Furthermore, it *is* an important meta-discussion, and I would appreciate it if you would stop sidestepping it like a politician sidesteps an important point which has any potential of incriminating them. Seriously, it's like shining a light on cockroaches and watching them all scatter back into the darkness.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Furthermore, it *is* an important meta-discussion, and I would appreciate it if you would stop sidestepping it like a politician sidesteps an important point which has any potential of incriminating them. Seriously, it's like shining a light on cockroaches and watching them all scatter back into the darkness.

I have already explained the reason for the thread; yet you continue to ignore it and to derail discussion. The wording is ambiguous because the first phase of research is to cast a wide net and to monitor the response before considering if it is worth engaging in more concise discussions.

It is especially relevant to ask it on this forum because INFJs share introverted intuition in common with myself and use Fe as the parent function.

Notably I have not had this visceral reaction on the several other typology forums to general inquiry or indeed from most of the members of INFJs.

There is only one alternative factor in play in this forum. That is your own biases and assuming motives in my words which are not present. I have been entirely honest here putting forward why the thead was created and choosing to post a response to your query which I knew would be reprimanded before I did so in full acceptance of the consequences of that because it is not my intention to be dishonest.

Remember, I have stated explictly the purpose of this thread; I have brought my biases to the table; I have made entirely clear that I view the unhealthy label as false but I view it as useful for generating discussion. Members of the forum have chosen to contribute constructively and at face value because those are clear and obvious and INFJs have a finely tuned bullshit meter. Simply put, I'm not playing politics.

Now I believe I have a query for you: why do you feel it is necessary to intentionally target and derail a thread just because I am the OP?

 

[Zero Angel]

Really? I don't figure that to be true at all. We can be people pleasers but I think you would find a consensus here that the infjs on this forum do question people a lot. One of the greatest interests of the infj is to understand what motivates other people. I would say that we inherently question people all of the time.

I think that one of the basic things about Fe is to understand how people feel about various issues, and how these things have the potential to affect people. For an Fe type, its actually very difficult to ignore Fe, even when we *want* to; and even where we use (willingly, or unwillingly) it in a destructive capacity -- it is always there in the background affecting our thoughts and feelings. 'How we fit in' is always a consideration of any FJ, I think. It's why TPs often use humor to diffuse tense situations and why NFJs can actively work towards harmonizing people and themselves to a common purpose.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I think that one of the basic things about Fe is to understand how people feel about various issues, and how these things have the potential to affect people. For an Fe type, its actually very difficult to ignore Fe, even when we *want* to; and even where we use (willingly, or unwillingly) it in a destructive capacity -- it is always there in the background affecting our thoughts and feelings. 'How we fit in' is always a consideration of any FJ, I think. It's why TPs often use humor to diffuse tense situations and why NFJs can actively work towards harmonizing people and themselves to a common purpose.

Yes, the theory would argue that it is near impossible to ignore the parent function if you are engaging as the self; the parent being a choke to the self. I wonder if INFJs have a similar problem as I have with Te (some INTJs agree) in that the parent requires focus to use constructively, otherwise it meanders. The Ni is almost automatic, but you really need to use the parent function to 'use' it to its best.

 

[Zero Angel]

Notably I have not had this visceral reaction on the several other typology forums to general inquiry or indeed from most of the members of INFJs.

I am not being visceral, I am being firm.

Furthermore you are saying 'near-slander' in your previous post. What a laugh. If asking for someones motivations is near slander, then I must be one slanderous mofo.

There is only one alternative factor in play in this forum. That is your own biases and assuming motives in my words which are not present. I have been entirely honest here putting forward why the thead was created and choosing to post a response to your query which I knew would be reprimanded before I did so in full acceptance of the consequences of that because it is not my intention to be dishonest.

Remember, I have stated explictly the purpose of this thread; I have brought my biases to the table; I have made entirely clear that I view the unhealthy label as false but I view it as useful for generating discussion. Members of the forum have chosen to contribute constructively and at face value because those are clear and obvious and INFJs have a finely tuned bullshit meter. Simply put, I'm not playing politics.

Now I believe we have a query for you: why do you feel it is necessary to intentionally target and derail a thread just because I am the OP?

I don't. However in light of recent actions elsewhere < link > and some Ni type reflections over the past few days. I figure it would be a good idea to call you on your BS and bring things out into the open without engaging in rhetoric.

I actually did not have any strong feelings about trying to 'bring you down', at least at first. Because I have contributed to your threads in non-destructive and non-confrontational matters up until recently. However, I simply believe that you are trying to play mind games with the people who have scorned you (Limit, Indigosensor, etc) and I actually don't like it. It's passive-aggressive and dirty, and I am interested in protecting these people because I believe they have always been solid contributors to their communities, that is my bias. The only boon that I will give you is that it has spawned useful discussion, however I feel that you havent actually revealed your biases, hence why there is so much insinuation, allusion and other deliberately vague conversation tactics employed in this thread.

 

[TheLastMohican]

[mods]Please keep this thread on topic, and avoid disturbing the peace with inter-forum drama.[/mods]

 

[Zero Angel]

Noted. Sorry for the disruption my questioning has caused.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Unhealthy INFJs Cannot Handle Drama.

 

[invisible]

i can tolerate it, i swear.

 

[arbygil]

So it's like the opposite of pax? I was hoping it would be an excuse to get everyone to calm down....

Yep, the exact opposite. But, folks still need to abide by the main INFJ rules (no trolling, no personal attacks, please keep on topic, etc).