[PUG] Unhealthy INFJs Cannot Freely Tolerate Public Opinion

[InvisibleJim]

So... does that mean we don't have a right to question/discuss the opinions of others?

Sorry, this thread confuses me.

What I'm looking for opinions on is if some Fe users would be inclined to try to 'cut off' viewpoints that are against their social view.

1) Fe lives with Ti in a packet.
2) The Fe is objective, the Ti is subjective.
3) Fe is all about having a 'shared community' and draws objective meaning from it.
4) Ti does not have access to all of the available data.
5) Fe fills in the gaps by drawing the externalized assumptions 'this man is not a friend, this man is'
6) Ti accepts the externalized assumptions of Fe and fills in it's own blanks to justify what is required.
7) Individual who has voiced negative opinion regarding their friend is a target for the individual.

I'm also inclined to wonder if this kind of behaviour is more prominent in the dominant or parent (secondary) position.

Note, I'm not declaring Te-Fi any better; simply different; more prone to acidic outburst and much more socially stubborn coupled with demands for competence in order to recognize authority. Individuals who are viewed to have busted their word are simply not to be trusted in any setting: and such.

It's an interesting condundrum because Fe and Te can dance very well; when the two users are close then there is respect for the value in the Fe user and respect for the ethics of the Te user. However they can clash when the Fe group is different and the Te is markedly strong and against the 'group position'.

 

[gps]

I have noted that is a tendancy for some of the INFJs I know to be unable to accept that people both have a right to their own opinion and a right to voice that as they so choose.

Is this Fe run wild or just some other unhealthy INFJ behaviour from an unhealthy INFJ?



The mind does boggle.

As opposed to unhealthy inTjs?
I wouldn't allow either to hold a position requiring moderate responses to the expressed-through-text-via-vBulletin-groups opinions of others.
Especially one in which the unhealthy INxJ is allowed to use arbitrary, capricious pretexts to assess `insult' beyond acceptance of the sort you're mentioning here ... then (mis)use a position of more-equal power to `infract' the expressor of opinion in an attempt to limit the would-be freedom of speech required to express the personal opinion of which you write.
You're treading on thin ice HERE, dude.
You might want to take it back to where you can rig the game to manifest the very sort of thing you spot in `unhealthy INFJs' ... but don't got, no way no how.

 

[Detective Conan]

What I'm looking for opinions on is if some Fe users would be inclined to try to 'cut off' viewpoints that are against their social view.

1) Fe lives with Ti in a packet.
2) The Fe is objective, the Ti is subjective.
3) Fe is all about having a 'shared community' and draws objective meaning from it.
4) Ti does not have access to all of the available data.
5) Fe fills in the gaps by drawing the externalized assumptions 'this man is not a friend, this man is'
6) Ti accepts the externalized assumptions of Fe and fills in it's own blanks to justify what is required.
7) Individual who has voiced negative opinion regarding their friend is a target for the individual.

I'm also inclined to wonder if this kind of behaviour is more prominent in the dominant or parent (secondary) position.

Note, I'm not declaring Te-Fi any better; simply different; more prone to acidic outburst and much more socially stubborn coupled with demands for competence in order to recognize authority. Individuals who are viewed to have busted their word are simply not to be trusted in any setting: and such.

It's an interesting condundrum because Fe and Te can dance very well; when the two users are close then there is respect for the value in the Fe user and respect for the ethics of the Te user. However they can clash when the Fe group is different and the Te is markedly strong and against the 'group position'.

Oh okay, that makes more sense. I was originally going to say that I don't find the kind of behavior your described particularly exclusive to INFJs. I really don't have much to say on the subject past my personal experiences, more or less because I haven't really had a chance to read up on the implications cognitive functions have on one's behavior, aside from my own to help myself better understand... er... myself. I see this behavior a lot in many different settings, including my classrooms, clubs, and workplace, and I doubt that all those people are INFJs.

As for my personal experience, I find that I'm open to hearing different opinions; however, if said opinions can't be justified logically as being superior than my own, if I do indeed hold opinions on whatever subject arises, then I tend to mentally disregard them. In that respect, I can 'cut off' other views, but only after hearing and being unsatisfied with the reasoning behind those views. On the other side of that coin, if the reasoning seems sound, I'd probably look deeper into the matter and might end up changing my opinion (there's a 50/50 chance of that occurring). For the most part, I tend not to care so much about opinions relating to smaller things, such as personal taste in food or soft drinks. I only feel a need to vest any serious time into a discussion of opinions/beliefs when those values can harm the person and others around them.

Unfortunately, aside from what I know of myself and the people around me, I can't say anything else on the subject.

 

[Chessie]

I...mmm...this is complicated.

The reason this does (yes, it does) happen to an INFJ during a stress period is that under normal circumstances we tend to gather up a lot of information from lots of different sources. Our brains assemble it into a very cohesive picture and in large part, when people are wrong about something, they don't want to be told they're wrong.

When an INFJ gets angry or upset, the tendency is to rely more heavily on the protective intuition but when we're under stress it alters our perceptions of things around us. We've got this big image of things and it's been changed because we're not percieving things in a perfectly clear way. It may still be accurate (in large part) but it is skewed both by our need to protect ourselves and by the stress itself which causes us to speak up more when we percieve a slight.

 

[This]

Yep, the exact opposite. But, folks still need to abide by the main INFJ rules (no trolling, no personal attacks, please keep on topic, etc).

I thought the topic itself was trolling. XD

 

[Arsal]

As opposed to unhealthy inTjs?
I wouldn't allow either to hold a position requiring moderate responses to the expressed-through-text-via-vBulletin-groups opinions of others.
Especially one in which the unhealthy INxJ is allowed to use arbitrary, capricious pretexts to assess `insult' beyond acceptance of the sort you're mentioning here ... then (mis)use a position of more-equal power to `infract' the expressor of opinion in an attempt to limit the would-be freedom of speech required to express the personal opinion of which you write.
You're treading on thin ice HERE, dude.
You might want to take it back to where you can rig the game to manifest the very sort of thing you spot in `unhealthy INFJs' ... but don't got, no way no how.

Unhealthy INFJs Cannot Freely Tolerate Public Opinion

Sweet irony.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Sweet irony.

Well, herein one has the condundrum as a Te-Fi type. One can either accept the rules as laid down by others and enforce them which is not liked by Ti-Fe types if they aren't part of the 'group' who decided them; or you can protest and attempt to change them and be attacked for acting outside of the boundaries of the group.

An interesting and irreconcilable problem hence why I have always found more comfort and stability on those with Fi-Te dynamics; set out the goal posts and base the rest on individuals and trust between individuals - don't base relations on how they behave with others unless it is abhorrent. It's just sensible business and relationship strategy.

 

[Spiritual Leo]

The implication is that you think INFJ's generally behave in this manner and the "unhealthy" tag is just clipped on there so that your statement is easier for this forum to swallow. (But I defiantly could be reading too much into it.)

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

 

[Zero Angel]

Well, herein one has the condundrum as a Te-Fi type. One can either accept the rules as laid down by others and enforce them which is not liked by Ti-Fe types if they aren't part of the 'group' who decided them; or you can protest and attempt to change them and be attacked for acting outside of the boundaries of the group.

An interesting and irreconcilable problem hence why I have always found more comfort and stability on those with Fi-Te dynamics; set out the goal posts and base the rest on individuals and trust between individuals - don't base relations on how they behave with others unless it is abhorrent. It's just sensible business and relationship strategy.

Actually, one who is opposed 'to the group' may be resisted for more than just the reason that opposing the group an Fe type has associated himself with somehow upsets Fe. The reasons could be many. For one, the person who is opposing the group might be doing so for selfish reasons wherein by his opposing he seeks to gain happiness which is less in-sum then the happiness lost or potentially losable by all members of the group. The person may also try to 'stir the pot' for reasons which do not net a positive sum for all involved. The person in question may also attack members of the group wherein a more diplomatic or light handed approach could be tried first. Or the person in question could just be a jerk, perhaps triggering insecurities in others intentionally.

One ESFJ that I met recently chewed out a random stranger on the street just for throwing away trash onto the side walk when there was a nearby garbage can within a few feet. Apparently his (the guy the EFJ chewed out) selfish action was especially selfish because it was easily avoidable and if that person had considered others he wouldve held on to that trash for a few more seconds and then threw it into the can he was on his way to. Everyone (not just a specific peer group) would have benefitted -- at least, I think thats what his reason was. At any rate, I was quite impressed that he would harass a guy like that just for having bad manners. Fe dom/aux types seem to be more concerned about manners than others.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Everyone (not just a specific peer group) would have benefitted -- at least, I think thats what his reason was. At any rate, I was quite impressed that he would harass a guy like that just for having bad manners. Fe dom/aux types seem to be more concerned about manners than others.

Well this is really a rather interesting point; I'll need to consider this and formulate some ideas from it; because I've seen both Te and Fe justifications being used for this.

 

[Zero Angel]

Good point. TJs seem to have an affinity for 'law' but for different reasons that FJs do.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Also, I think we should point out that comparing Fi-Te and Fe-Ti reactions may skew the discussion a bit -- they are fundamentally different. Both Fi-Te users and Fe-Ti users can become very self-absorbed and may react in destructive ways towards a group or individual if they are in the right mindset. The reasons for doing so are different, so favoring one or the other isn't really going to increase our understanding of the intolerance problem