The "J" in INFJ | INFJ Forum

The "J" in INFJ

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by AUM, Dec 1, 2009.

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  1. AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    We've heard it many times in here and in the real world, " you're not that organized to be a J" or something to that effect but yet we consider ourselves to be projecting this attitude to outsiders. I admit that sometimes I've felt like I'm not an organized person at all, I easily forget things and wouldn't be successful shelving books in the library which requires a great deal of organization skills. So where does this Judging function come from in INFJ's?

    All this is speculative of course but as I have understood so far from reading, surfing the net and talking among others who are knowledgeable about the MBTI, it seems that the order that comes from an INFJ is from our organizational skills about our ideals and how we want to see such ideal to be displayed in to the external world from our eyes. I could care less about seeing order in my room unless it is disrupting an objective that results from seeing such clutter because I usually can't do anything in a messy room so I clean it, not because I want my room to look nice and clean but because it is impeding me from reaching my objectives(homework, exercise or reading time).

    The judging function ,from what it is obvious, is used a lot different from people with sensing preferences or in fact other "judgers", because they are usually(not generalizing of course) more by the book and about aesthetics. They are ashamed if someone sees a dirty house or that things are not where they are supposed to be. It just seems that INFJ's are more concerned in being organized and planning ahead if it's something that deals with their inner world. We seem to enjoy routine to an extent, as long as that routine is taking us somewhere productive and that it is going to help us achieve our potentials because if it isn't we tend to get really bored and seek something more exciting but at the same time more beneficial to our being.

    This is all of course coming from my own head and interpreting what others have mentioned regarding their J-ness. You all are welcome to refute me and add constructive insight as to this view. I want to give up this type ordeal and sometimes I say to myself " F this, I'm not a type and blah blah blah" but I always end up in the same boat and ashamed of myself for not putting determination and effort to understand myself. I guess that knowing is more powerful in me than just forgetting about this issue and no matter what I say, I won't be satisfied until I convince myself that I am capable of attaining my own stamp, my own label and once I obtain such thing then I will be ready to proceed to find my real identity and real Self.
     
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  2. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I'll put a full on agreement sticker to this thread, i could never figure out the whole J thing, I'm only as organised as my goals require outside of that meh...

    so I guess on this would be on topic, are INFJs the weakest Js
     
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  3. Gaze

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    Yep.
     
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  4. alcyone

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    On the contrary. I am quite capable of organizing things.

    I am just not capable of maintaining the organization without a lot of repetition and routine built into it. Except for my bookshelves. I put all my books back into their groups so I know where to get them from later.

    Additionally, once i organize the environment to my liking, I can find anything I want no matter how cluttered and disorganized my area is.
     
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  5. OP
    AUM

    AUM The Romantic Scientist

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    I don't know if we're the weakest Js but I do think we are not as conventional as other J types may be. I think we are bringers of spiritual and philosophical organization sort to speak and our order lies in how this world should be. I tend to notice of how restless I become whenever I become spiritually detached, it's like I'm losing a part of myself. But whatever, I'm talking too subjectively here and I got to recognize that not everyone will see things this way. Good question though.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. I just don't want to come out as what I said to be set in stone. I know that each INFJ will be different in this aspect. It's just what I've noticed thus far from other INFJ's that I know of but I like the aspect that not everyone will fit this mold. Thanks for the response. :)
     
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  6. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    INFJs are the least "J" of all the J types.

    This is because the stereotype "J" personality is based on SJs and TJs, which are by far the most numerous. SFJs and STJs make up 46.8% of the population. However, the common denominator between SFJs and STJs, as well as the most important factor in the "J" personality is actually Si - which causes all the organizational behaviors and need for classification in the present.

    NTJs and NFJs combined make up less than 3% of the population, and we INFJs are less than 1%. It is very clear once you take population into consideration that the stereotype does not originate with us. We're Ni users, and as such, we're very situational and looking toward the future.
     
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    #6 VH, Dec 1, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  7. Kaipaus

    Kaipaus Community Member

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    I used to think of myself as an INFP for so long... because I'm so disorganised and messy and forgetful! But I hate it! I try to organise my life all the time. I write "to do" -lists and follow them, and I put up little notes all around my apartment because I want to keep things in order and to remember where everything is. I try so hard to be organised... but I have to try extra hard to be even half as organised as I would like to be. About a year ago I was finally diagnosed with an attention deficit disorder (without hyperactivity), so now I sort of have an explanation for why I'm so disorganised and forgetful-- if the diagnosis is correct, that is.

    So... the thing is, I see myself as a "judger" because I love order and systems. I get stressed out when I feel that I have to change my plan or when I have various options. Random obscurities bother me. I do feel like I'm a Judger at the heart, but a lot of people would probably say that I'm a Perceiver because I'm so disorganised.

    Another thing then are the functions. I can relate to all the functions Ni, Ne, Ti, Fi and Fe-- it depends on the viewpoint and emphasis which ones I relate to the most-- so they aren't much help...

    I still consider the last letter of my type open, however, because I dislike the thought of perhaps making an error in my typing.

    "I admit that sometimes I've felt like I'm not an organized person at all, I easily forget things and wouldn't be successful shelving books in the library which requires a great deal of organization skills."

    I have actually worked at a library as a book shelver for a couple of months, and it was a really nice job. I had no problem with it (even though I of course made some errors due to being absent-minded, as always, but in general I think I handled the job very well).
     
  8. Morgain

    Morgain defective wisdom
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    me too
    organization comes in waves with me. One day I'm over organized: filing my administration, clean up all the mess in my appartement, putting my books exactly how they have to be. And the next day I don't care at all, I leave my mess circling arount the house, don't do the dishes, piling up my administration. Until the mess gets over my head and I start cleaning again in a bit of a fanatic way. At work I'm much more steady in organization and people aknowledge me for my organization skills.
     
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  9. flux

    flux Community Member

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    'J' is not your prime judging function. Fe is. Fe is about placing social and philosophical relationships in some sort of hierarchy, which is still an extraverted judging process. It entails a sort of organization that may cause the users to appear very "disorganized" in the usual Te terms in order that they may prioritize to their strengths.
     
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  10. Wyst

    Wyst Are you there?

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    Word to this.

    I can be very J when it's something I care about or am heavily invested in. For example, when I'm gung-ho about my diet and working out, it's insane the lengths I will go to to get things organized, prepared, and laid out.

    But for things I feel meh about... :m080: I'll eventually get around to it.
     
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  11. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    Building on what flux said, Fe is not as structured as Te, but the Ni Fe combo is what really makes it for INFJs.
    Firstly, our judging function is second, so it's not as strongly expressed. When alone, such as in our room, it's not as active, so we don't concentrate on our judging function as our primary Ni. In other words, we get lost in our heads with Ni and our room gets messy :B

    Secondly, Ni and Fe is pretty abstract -- the reason Fe/Si combo is a lot more structured is because of the concrete nature of Si. Si is sensory-focused, so even if it is focused inward, it still deals with information with the outside world and the senses, so they are still more aware of the surroundings and it shows as being more "outwardly" judging. Ni is focused inward and abstract, so it can work pretty independently of the outside world.

    So, Fe dominance would be more "judging", and xSFJs would be more "judging" than xNFJ types.
     
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  12. yumiii

    yumiii Community Member

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    Totally off topic, but you just made me think that my mom might be an ISFJ. Or something close. Not yet sure. I must make her take the mbti test one of these days. :m200:
    Anyway, I can totally relate to everything being said in here. I've always wondered about my organizational skills. I am very organized in one day, but then the following days I just leave it cluttered. This does not mean I can't find my way around it though- it's called an organized mess. :D

    I think the only things that are always organized in my life are my books, my written works, and my contact list... Haha.
     
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  13. Gaze

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    This is me.
     
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    #13 Gaze, Dec 1, 2009
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  14. shannishannon

    shannishannon Saponifier
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    Posted via Mobile Device I am glad to see a continuation of this discussion of J ness. I find my outer life less real and certainly less organized than my inner life.
     
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    #14 shannishannon, Dec 1, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
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  15. rainrise

    rainrise Community Member

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    that's undeniably true for me.
     
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  16. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Wow. That needs to be a quintessential INFJ quote.
     
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  17. Solar Empath

    Solar Empath Community Member

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    I think this is key. Since our J function is Auxiliary and Fe, our drive to organize is directly related to how much we value something emotionally. If we feel little about it then we will do little to build it, organize it or maintain it. If we care a lot then we can get extremely involved in taking care of it.

    So I guess the key to unlocking your J is to build up genuine emotional value for the thing.
     
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    #17 Solar Empath, Dec 1, 2009
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  18. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    Actually, that brings up an interesting point: When an INFJ suddenly becomes more ridged in his or her outside life (more to-do lists, more cleaning, more perfectionism, etc), would that be an indication of turmoil going on *inside* that they are having problems controlling?

    I find that when I'm particularly stressed I suddenly want to clean my outside environment and put things in order on the outside.
     
  19. bs98r3kjf

    bs98r3kjf Well-known member

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    I have experienced the same exact thing.
     
  20. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Absolutely! Our "J-ness" is in direct proportion to our emotional investment. When something isn't part of how we feel things should be, we don't much care, especially if it isn't affecting anyone. However, when we are invested in the outcome or simply feel that something is or isn't right, we become much more "J". When something is of absolute importance to us, such as our prime causes or the well being of the people we love most, we are extremely "J".

    I have experienced this too. Almost every single time I start to get stressed by outside sources. In fact, it is a key indicator that something is wrong that I want to fix, but am currently unable.

    I think these are the moments when our Fe begins to take the wheel due to stress, pushing Ni to the passenger seat because Ni hasn't been doing a good enough job. According to the cognitive function model of stress where people begin to switch their preferences to adapt to stress, this makes perfect sense. INFJs first move to ENFJ, then ISTP, then ESTP.
     
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    #20 VH, Dec 1, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
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