The "J" in INFJ

[Wyst]

I think this is key. Since our J function is Auxiliary and Fe, our drive to organize is directly related to how much we value something emotionally. If we feel little about it then we will do little to build it, organize it or maintain it. If we care a lot then we can get extremely involved in taking care of it.

So I guess the key to unlocking your J is to build up genuine emotional value for the thing.

Bingo - that's how I am.

Actually, that brings up an interesting point: When an INFJ suddenly becomes more ridged in his or her outside life (more to-do lists, more cleaning, more perfectionism, etc), would that be an indication of turmoil going on *inside* that they are having problems controlling?

I find that when I'm particularly stressed I suddenly want to clean my outside environment and put things in order on the outside.

I know that when things aren't going my way at work I tend to have a number of 'typically me' reponses:

- go lift weights!
- eat something yummy!
- talk to someone who I know will agree with me
- jack around with video games or waste my time in other ways

In all of these responses, I'm absolutely being very controlling:

- Well ___ isn't going well for me but after I finish this work out I'll get closer to my goals in the gym!
- Screw work! I know what would totally hit the spot some nice (insert food)
- Not sure what to do... I know who will agree with me! I'll talk to them (and then follow through on what I already want to do - I just need validation)
- Well @&^#! Nothing seems to go my way no matter how hard I try. Fine I'll give up - If I'm destined to fail, I'll fail the way I want to fail - failure by not trying anymore.

 

[xizzax]

I think these are the moments when our Fe begins to take the wheel due to stress, pushing Ni to the passenger seat because Ni hasn't been doing a good enough job. According to the cognitive function model of stress where people begin to switch their preferences to adapt to stress, this makes perfect sense. INFJs first move to ENFJ, then ISTP, then ESTP.

so in terms of dealing with stress what examples would be good for each of those?

in accordance to that order I find myself when first stressing out to talk to friends.. (slowly moving down the scale... ) analyzing the problem (and stressing myself even more-so) then finally, just completely stressed out.. i need an immediate reliever. I start acting reckless, running off, want to smoke/drink or even just sleep etc.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Actually, that brings up an interesting point: When an INFJ suddenly becomes more ridged in his or her outside life (more to-do lists, more cleaning, more perfectionism, etc), would that be an indication of turmoil going on *inside* that they are having problems controlling?

I find that when I'm particularly stressed I suddenly want to clean my outside environment and put things in order on the outside.

I do this too, but by the same token, if I am very stress-free in real life and don't have to worry about my agenda and have ample free time, I'm more likely to keep my outside structured as well. If I'm doing really well, then my surroundings tend to be well taken care of.

 

[VH]

so in terms of dealing with stress what examples would be good for each of those?

ENFJ

in accordance to that order I find myself when first stressing out to talk to friends.. (slowly moving down the scale... )

When Fe becomes dominant, INFJs seem a lot like ENFJs because our Fe is usually well developed. We also become more extroverted, leaning on not only our Fe, but also our Se to a fair extent - encouraging us to be more physical and competitive and direct. Many of us also become overbearing in a maternal or paternal way. This is because Fe is our "Mother/Father" function.

ISTP

analyzing the problem (and stressing myself even more-so)

INFJs tend to have less fluency with these functions, so we're not nearly as good with them as an actual ISTP, and therefore at best appear like an underdeveloped ISTP. When we reach this point, we're leaning more on our introverted functions, Ti and Ni. We generally seem like an odd blend of INFJ, INTP, and ISTP because of it. I've known a lot of us to want to withdraw from the world and tinker with geeky little things that make us happy, like roleplaying games, fantasy football, figuring out Jungian psychology and posting on the internet, etc. This is because Ti is our Puella, or our 'inner child' function.

ESTP

then finally, just completely stressed out.. i need an immediate reliever. I start acting reckless, running off, want to smoke/drink or even just sleep etc.

INFJs have the least fluency with these functions, and as a result almost always seem like extremely under developed ESTPs when we're in this mode. However, unlike the previous two modes, we're not leaning toward introversion or extroversion, but instead have completely flipped our function order. This is our fight or flight mode, often reserved for life or death levels of stress. Ironically, we're amazing in a crisis because of this. But when we're pushed to this point outside of a crisis, we can be more a danger to ourselves than a help.

 

[sassafras]

Absolutely! Our "J-ness" is in direct proportion to our emotional investment. When something isn't part of how we feel things should be, we don't much care, especially if it isn't affecting anyone. However, when we are invested in the outcome or simply feel that something is or isn't right, we become much more "J". When something is of absolute importance to us, such as our prime causes or the well being of the people we love most, we are extremely "J".

Hmm. This may be a simplistic observation, but I wonder if that also contributes to issues of ADD or other attention issues. If we don't think of the task as important, or if we don't have a vested interest in it, perhaps that's what makes some of us more prone to distraction...

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Hmm. This may be a simplistic observation, but I wonder if that also contributes to issues of ADD or other attention issues. If we don't think of the task as important, or if we don't have a vested interest in it, perhaps that's what makes some of us more prone to distraction...

That sure is a good description for me :B

 

[Gaze]

If we don't think of the task as important, or if we don't have a vested interest in it, perhaps that's what makes some of us more prone to distraction...

Umm . . . yeah. Sounds about right.

 

[VH]

Hmm. This may be a simplistic observation, but I wonder if that also contributes to issues of ADD or other attention issues. If we don't think of the task as important, or if we don't have a vested interest in it, perhaps that's what makes some of us more prone to distraction...

That sure is a good description for me :B

Combine it with the cingulate system over activity associated with Ni dominance, and I think you've got the answer! It seems as if it would be equally applicable to Ni and Te users, if they discount something as irrelevant. Good job!

I would also assume the same to be true of the limbic system over activity associated with Ne, which would explain why NFP/NTP versions of ADD are slightly different than our own.

 

[sassafras]

So the reverse would be someone who is Te dominant or with a Te auxiliary... and they would remain task-oriented, regardless of whether or not they would have a emotional mission assigned to the task?

 

[VH]

So the reverse would be someone who is Te dominant or with a Te auxiliary... and they would remain task-oriented, regardless of whether or not they would have a emotional mission assigned to the task?

The reverse would be Si and Te or Fe. And from what I have seen and read, ADD is almost non-existant in the SFJ and STJ types.

 

[Eniko]

The problem with J and P is that people treat them as functions in their own right, but they're just broader indications of how the rest of your functions are focussed. J is not a function. Te is.

Te is what lets you set goals, organize schedules and meet milestones. Most INFJs won't possess an inordinate amount of Te, and because people think so simplistically about "J" they say we have bad J. Even though our J comes out in a lot of other things, such as craving a conclusion instead of liking possibilities, being very decisive, being able to stick with a decision and see it through to the end.

 

[sassafras]

Umm . . . yeah. Sounds about right.

Well, beyond what is normal. You sort of eliminated the whole context of the sentence.

 

[Gaze]

So the reverse would be someone who is Te dominant or with a Te auxiliary... and they would remain task-oriented, regardless of whether or not they would have a emotional mission assigned to the task?

Hmm. That makes sense. Explains why i tend to have difficulty completing tasks in which i have little or no emotional or personal investment.

 

[sassafras]

Hmm. If anything, this is a very strong argument for me favoring Te over Fe.

 

[Gaze]

Well, beyond what is normal. You sort of eliminated the whole context of the sentence.

Actually, i was agreeing with you. "Umm . . . yeah" didn't mean anything really.

 

[VH]

It's been my experience that while some of my NTJ and NTP friends have ADD, their symptoms are not as severe as my NFJ and NFP friends who have ADD.

The fact that the cingulate system, which governs how we switch from one thought process to another, is effectively at the center of the limbic system, most commonly associated with emotions lends a lot of support to this notion.

However, the governing factor still seems to be N vs S Perception dominance, while F or T dominance exacerbates the condition.

In my experience, any effective ADD medications have a side effect of emotional suppression, which may be a large part of the equation that you're suggesting.

Nice spot, DTH. Looks like you found a missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[sassafras]

Actually, i was agreeing with you. "Umm . . . yeah" didn't mean anything really.

Ah. Ambiguity.

 

[VH]

Hmm. If anything, this is a very strong argument for me favoring Te over Fe.

[INFJ] [Ni>Te>Fe>Ti>Fi>Ne>Se>Si] [1w9]

If your "J" function order is Te > Fe >Ti > Fi, this would suggest that Fe and Ti are midpoints between your Te and Fi.

Have you looked at INTJ Forum to see if you 'click' more over there? It might be a good litmus.

 

[VH]

Actually, i was agreeing with you. "Umm . . . yeah" didn't mean anything really.

Hehe, I thought you were making an ADD joke.

 

[sassafras]

It's been my experience that while some of my NTJ and NTP friends have ADD, their symptoms are not as severe as my NFJ and NFP friends who have ADD.

The fact that the cingulate system, which governs how we switch from one thought process to another, is effectively at the center of the limbic system, most commonly associated with emotions lends a lot of support to this notion.

However, the governing factor still seems to be N vs S Perception dominance, while F or T dominance exacerbates the condition.

That would make sense. S types are more plugged into the here and now; doesn't seem like they have much opportunity to be living in their head.

You know what else I've been wondering? Does the quality of your vision have a small role to play in this? I imagine that if your vision has drastically weakened, would your reliance on Se tend to plummet?

Mind you, I've demonstrated ADD symptoms during my period of depression... during which my Se was just absolute crap with the added effects of derealization. That was also around the time when I realized I needed glasses...

Strange segue-way here, sorry.

In my experience, any effective ADD medications have a side effect of emotional suppression, which may be a large part of the equation that you're suggesting.

Eek, really? What have you tried?

Nice spot, DTH. Looks like you found a missing piece of the puzzle.

Yay! Sometimes I'm useful