Like the bleach thing... if he was 'being sarcastic' or not (and personally I don't think he was), then what the fuck is he doing communicating that to the American public with a straight face? Are people supposed to be able to decipher a sense of humour so dry that it's indistinguishable from sincerity while listening to a press conference on public health from the actual President?
You've finally hit on something that is actually a lie. He definitely wasn't being sarcastic. I understand he wanted to brush it aside and go back on the attack during the debate but I don't believe that that was sarcasm. I don't think people who actually support Trump believe that either.
He should have just said it was nonsense and moved on instead of lying.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ What's True
During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.
What's False
Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.
You are taking me a bit too seriously. I never remember seeing anything about Trump saying it was a hoax, but I've heard plenty from his supporters saying that. I've heard everything from "COVID is a hoax perpetrated by the Biden campaign" to "I was injected with COVID as part of a left-wing plot".
It's just crazies saying shit that's funny. I was also giving the left shit for their cancel culture and basically eating themselves years ago, but the crazy has swung to the right now, imo.
Trump has stated that he has an obligation to fill RBG's seat asap. He said that he was elected to serve a full term, and this was part of it.
Now today he has stated that Republicans should stop negotiating with Democrats until after the election... He says he plans to pass a new stimulus bill after he is reelected.
What
A
Shyster
He also thinks SCOTUS will end up determining the results of the election. So there you go.
You are taking me a bit too seriously. I never remember seeing anything about Trump saying it was a hoax, but I've heard plenty from his supporters saying that. I've heard everything from "COVID is a hoax perpetrated by the Biden campaign" to "I was injected with COVID as part of a left-wing plot".
It's just crazies saying shit that's funny. I was also giving the left shit for their cancel culture and basically eating themselves years ago, but the crazy has swung to the right now, imo.
They definitely do that, and the 'Proud Boys dog whistle' was an example of that, but he definitely speaks off the cuff with a confusing and dangerous level of imprecision.
I have to disagree. I watched the debate live, and what I heard and saw, when Trump was pressed about condemning white supremacy, he was very avoidant. At best, he said "sure," which is highly concerning. He then went on to feign ignorance to any white supremacist groups, needing the moderator to name one for him. Instead of condemning them, saying "I don't support this group or what it stands for," (Even bush was able to lie and say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman,) What he said was "Proud boys, stand back and stand by."
Please explain to me how that was taken out of context.
I have to disagree. I watched the debate live, and what I heard and saw, when Trump was pressed about condemning white supremacy, he was very avoidant. At best, he said "sure," which is highly concerning. He then went on to feign ignorance to any white supremacist groups, needing the moderator to name one for him. Instead of condemning them, saying "I don't support this group or what it stands for," (Even bush was able to lie and say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman,) What he said was "Proud boys, stand back and stand by."
Please explain to me how that was taken out of context.
Here's a transcript of that clip I put together:
Moderator: '... You have repeatedly criticised the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups, but are you willing - tonight - to condemn white supremacist and militia groups [Trump: sure] and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we've seen in Portland?
Trump: Sure I'm willing to do that, [Moderator: Are you prepared to specifically...] [Biden: do it] but I would say [Moderator: well go ahead, Sir], I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing [Moderator: So what do you, what are you (unitelligible)]. I'm, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace [Moderator: Well, then say it, Sir.] [Biden: Say it, do it, say it.] You want to call them... what do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name.
Moderator: White supremacists and [Trump: Go ahead, who would you like me to condemn?] [Biden: White supremacists] [Biden: Proud Boys] and white supremacists and right-wing [Biden: The Proud Boys] militia.
Trump: Proud Boys: stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing [Biden: His own FBI director said (unintelligible) white supremacist....] problem, this is a left-wing [Biden: ...Antifa's an idea, not an organisation] Oh you gotta be kidding [Biden: That's what his... his FBI director said] It's an idea? OK
Now, I'm no fan of Trump - far from it - but to me, attempting to look at this through as objective a lens as possible, it seems as if Trump's answer was simply constructed to appease the Moderator and Biden based on what he was specifically primed with.
He was asked to say that 'the Proud Boys' should 'stand down' by Biden and the moderator, and he did pretty much exactly that while trying to deflect attention on to Antifa. It was delivered with a attitude of limited patience because it sounds like something he's been asked a million times before, and he was willing to say practically whatever was asked of him.
It's very clear that this was not a premeditated 'dog whistle', because he was primed with both 'stand down' and 'the Proud Boys' by his interlocutors.
As for 'stand by', I think it's also more likely that Trump meant this in the sense of 'don't do anything' rather than 'be prepared'.
1.
be present while something bad is happening but fail to take any action to stop it.
"he was beaten to the ground as onlookers stood by"
2.
support or remain loyal to (someone), typically in a time of need.
"she had stood by him during his years in prison"
3.
be ready to deal or assist with something.
"two battalions were on their way, and a third was standing by"
As you say, he did fail to condemn these organisations, but it seems to me that his major concern was to redirect the dialogue onto the topic of Antifa by giving as little attention as possible to the actual question.
The media storm about this ambiguous statement is somewhat ridiculous to me, given the context of everything else he did actually say. It seems like a massive red herring that only plays into Trump's hands because of the sheer level of plausible deniability he is able to apply to it. This is very weak political opposition; schoolyard amateurism.
Here's a transcript of that clip I put together:
Moderator: '... You have repeatedly criticised the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups, but are you willing - tonight - to condemn white supremacist and militia groups [Trump: sure] and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we've seen in Portland?
Trump: Sure I'm willing to do that, [Moderator: Are you prepared to specifically...] [Biden: do it] but I would say [Moderator: well go ahead, Sir], I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing [Moderator: So what do you, what are you (unitelligible)]. I'm, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace [Moderator: Well, then say it, Sir.] [Biden: Say it, do it, say it.] You want to call them... what do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name.
Moderator: White supremacists and [Trump: Go ahead, who would you like me to condemn?] [Biden: White supremacists] [Biden: Proud Boys] and white supremacists and right-wing [Biden: The Proud Boys] militia.
Trump: Proud Boys: stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing [Biden: His own FBI director said (unintelligible) white supremacist....] problem, this is a left-wing [Biden: ...Antifa's an idea, not an organisation] Oh you gotta be kidding [Biden: That's what his... his FBI director said] It's an idea? OK
Now, I'm no fan of Trump - far from it - but to me, attempting to look at this through as objective a lens as possible, it seems as if Trump's answer was simply constructed to appease the Moderator and Biden based on what he was specifically primed with.
He was asked to say that 'the Proud Boys' should 'stand down' by Biden and the moderator, and he did pretty much exactly that while trying to deflect attention on to Antifa. It was delivered with a attitude of limited patience because it sounds like something he's been asked a million times before, and he was willing to say practically whatever was asked of him.
It's very clear that this was not a premeditated 'dog whistle', because he was primed with both 'stand down' and 'the Proud Boys' by his interlocutors.
As for 'stand by', I think it's also more likely that Trump meant this in the sense of 'don't do anything' rather than 'be prepared'.
1.
be present while something bad is happening but fail to take any action to stop it.
"he was beaten to the ground as onlookers stood by"
2.
support or remain loyal to (someone), typically in a time of need.
"she had stood by him during his years in prison"
3.
be ready to deal or assist with something.
"two battalions were on their way, and a third was standing by"
As you say, he did fail to condemn these organisations, but it seems to me that his major concern was to redirect the dialogue onto the topic of Antifa by giving as little attention as possible to the actual question.
The media storm about this ambiguous statement is somewhat ridiculous to me, given the context of everything else he did actually say. It seems like a massive red herring that only plays into Trump's hands because of the sheer level of plausible deniability he is able to apply to it. This is very weak political opposition; schoolyard amateurism.
Stand by (Stand by for evacuation orders, we have a cat 5 hurricane headed our way) and Stand back (Stop all behavior, let someone else deal with the issue) have two very different meanings. It was a Freudian slip at best, Instruction at its worst.
Now, granted Trump don't do words good, so perhaps it was just him forgetting what he had been asked to declare?
Stand by (Stand by for evacuation orders, we have a cat 5 hurricane headed our way) and Stand back (Stop all behavior, let someone else deal with the issue) have two very different meanings. It was a Freudian slip at best, Instruction at its worst.
Now, granted Trump don't do words good, so perhaps it was just him forgetting what he had been asked to declare?
Here's a transcript of that clip I put together:
Moderator: '... You have repeatedly criticised the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups, but are you willing - tonight - to condemn white supremacist and militia groups [Trump: sure] and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we've seen in Portland?
Trump: Sure I'm willing to do that, [Moderator: Are you prepared to specifically...] [Biden: do it] but I would say [Moderator: well go ahead, Sir], I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing [Moderator: So what do you, what are you (unitelligible)]. I'm, I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace [Moderator: Well, then say it, Sir.] [Biden: Say it, do it, say it.] You want to call them... what do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name.
Moderator: White supremacists and [Trump: Go ahead, who would you like me to condemn?] [Biden: White supremacists] [Biden: Proud Boys] and white supremacists and right-wing [Biden: The Proud Boys] militia.
Trump: Proud Boys: stand back and stand by, but I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing [Biden: His own FBI director said (unintelligible) white supremacist....] problem, this is a left-wing [Biden: ...Antifa's an idea, not an organisation] Oh you gotta be kidding [Biden: That's what his... his FBI director said] It's an idea? OK
Now, I'm no fan of Trump - far from it - but to me, attempting to look at this through as objective a lens as possible, it seems as if Trump's answer was simply constructed to appease the Moderator and Biden based on what he was specifically primed with.
He was asked to say that 'the Proud Boys' should 'stand down' by Biden and the moderator, and he did pretty much exactly that while trying to deflect attention on to Antifa. It was delivered with a attitude of limited patience because it sounds like something he's been asked a million times before, and he was willing to say practically whatever was asked of him.
It's very clear that this was not a premeditated 'dog whistle', because he was primed with both 'stand down' and 'the Proud Boys' by his interlocutors.
As for 'stand by', I think it's also more likely that Trump meant this in the sense of 'don't do anything' rather than 'be prepared'.
1.
be present while something bad is happening but fail to take any action to stop it.
"he was beaten to the ground as onlookers stood by"
2.
support or remain loyal to (someone), typically in a time of need.
"she had stood by him during his years in prison"
3.
be ready to deal or assist with something.
"two battalions were on their way, and a third was standing by"
As you say, he did fail to condemn these organisations, but it seems to me that his major concern was to redirect the dialogue onto the topic of Antifa by giving as little attention as possible to the actual question.
The media storm about this ambiguous statement is somewhat ridiculous to me, given the context of everything else he did actually say. It seems like a massive red herring that only plays into Trump's hands because of the sheer level of plausible deniability he is able to apply to it. This is very weak political opposition; schoolyard amateurism.
He has spent the last nearly 4 years gaslighting this country. This was not an innocent slip up. We didn't all just hear him wrong. And those addressed didn't seem to think so either. He's an opportunist who thrives on sowing discord and confusion.
The head of the group President Trump named, the Proud Boys, is based in South Florida.
Miami-Dade based Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio told Local 10′s Amy Viteri that he didn’t take Trump’s words of “stand back and stand by” as a call to action, and he tweeted that the question was in reference to white supremacy, which they are not.
“I think the most important thing was stand back,” Tarrio said. “To me, that meant let police do their job.”
By Wednesday afternoon, less than 24 hours after the debate, President Trump claimed he now isn’t familiar with the group.
“I really don’t know who they are,” Trump told reporters Wednesday. “I can only say they have to stand down. Let law enforcement do their work.”
Civil rights groups classify the Proud Boys as a hate group for affiliations with extremists. Tarrio denies hating any one group, reiterating that they are not white supremacists.
“I’m going to go ahead on the record and say I condemn white supremacist groups,” Tarrio said.
There's plenty wrong with the proud boys. Particularly I don't like the political violence they engage in. White supremacist seems like a stretch, islamophobic and violent is as far as I would go in describing them.
