Tell me about INTJ...

[gps]

so..how 'bout passive-aggressive.."goals"?

As if?
How about passive-aggressive patterns of Emotion-Cognition-Action?
How about goals functioning as independent variables and deeds/processes/behavior functioning as dependent variables subjugable to self-latching goals carried along by Process?

tonight he told me he was busy 6-10, and he'd come over afterwards...at 11 i texted,
he was in the middle of a game..can't come, in the middle of a game.
no eta. no message at 10 when he was supposed to come...

Self-latching Process-cum-Goal.
To break off from a game-in-process would result in something akin to Coitus interruptus.

apparently the game he was in the middle of?
started at 9:30, half hour before he knew I was expecting him...

starting to wonder if it's all some sorta passive-aggressive game to get me to break up with him.

Did you mention he was a Jar Head (EG `marine')?
Would you expect a (former) jar head to break off and retreat right in the middle of a battle ... even if the battle were raging nowhere other than in the middle of his alleged mind?
(Yes, `alleged'. I'm a former Navy man ... `squid'.)

The following vignette may illustrate the root problem:
Setting: Two men, both in military uniforms, standing side by side in a mens restroom both using urinals.
The one in a marine uniform notices the one in navy whites finishes first, buttons up, and heads for the door.

Marine: In OUR boot camp they taught us to wash our hands after going to the bathroom.

Sailor: <without breaking stride> In our boot camp they taught us not to piss on our hands. <sailor exits>

finis

Point?
Had he demonstrated the ability to think ahead and preclude a problem the marines would have turned him over to the Navy proper to become a sailor.

Seriously, he probably was engrossed in his game and time stood still for him. He was in a groove, rut, `the zone', ... heat of battle. Damn it!!

It really wasn't about YOU.
It was his CNS under the influence of a fight-or-flight dynamic not significantly different from actually BEING in battle.

I KNOW as an NF it's really hard to NOT take things personally.
But everyone else that he was blowing off while we was playing that game was ALSO less important during the interval of that game.
Seems likely you were up against a self-latching process/dynamic.

While single he might not have encountered the `need' to think ahead before starting a game and becoming engrossed.
He may lack the forethought entailed with `if I start this game NOW, I just might have a heard time breaking off in time to keep the old lady from getting pissed'.
Give him time.
You may never be able to train him to NOT piss on his hands, but he may learn with time how to NOT start a computer game a mere half hour before he `goes on duty' with you.

Next time he's late have your Dominatrix gear at the ready and flog him with a cat-o-nine-tails for being AWOL.
Once he anticipates the `fun' he'll have NEXT TIME to look forward too, something more exciting than a mere video game, he just might not be so late ... or even late at all.

Yeah ... I know ... `Dear Abby'z got nothin' on me. Right?

 

[Jill Hives]

And when I'm in a bad mood... man... it's best to just not be around me. Apparently I project my feelings without having to say a word...

Oh my goodness grapes yes.

 

[grt$5vb]

"Next time he's late have your Dominatrix gear at the ready and flog him with a cat-o-nine-tails for being AWOL.
Once he anticipates the `fun' he'll have NEXT TIME to look forward too, something more exciting than a mere video game, he just might not be so late ... or even late at all."

This is, hands down THE best advice anyone could give you about bringing an INTJ home. Sex. It speaks to them... and they're really good at it. Win/win.

 

[Questingpoet]

INTJs are not assholes. We say what we mean and we mean what we say. The problem is that no one listens.

[MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION] Have you ever heard "its not what you say, but how you say it?" That is a truism that many types won't cater to. Hell yes the truth should be enough, but it never is for people. It has to be packaged and sold. Welcome to the world we created. I love INTJ's btw...our more practical cousins.

 

[not sure]

[MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION]...the truth should be enough, but it never is for people. It has to be packaged and sold...

I agree and believe me I have tried but it takes all the energy out of me. I'm sure other types get weary of having to repackage themselves in a more socially acceptable form too. My consolation is that there are a few people like yourself who actually like intjs. Hopefully, that means we aren't all that bad or maybe it means you are masochists.

 

[TinyBubbles]

INTJs have a heart of gold, in most cases anyway. It's hidden behind thick walls of what they charmingly like to call logic

 

[Lerxst]

Go watch "Dexter" to get a real good look at how INTJ's think Even before that show though, I always pictured them as the serial killer types... calculating... keep to themselves...

 

[not sure]

Dexter is an INTJ? This is news to me. Prove it.
[MENTION=2890]Lerxst[/MENTION]

 

[Nixie]

Go watch "Dexter" to get a real good look at how INTJ's think Even before that show though, I always pictured them as the serial killer types... calculating... keep to themselves...

When I hung out at perC for awhile this is what I heard a lot about INTJ's. wtf?? Sure the Fe sucks but the Fi is pretty strong. I won't kill you if I am mad at you but I am pretty sure that I could make you wish you were dead. I mean those are two totally different things!!!

 

[grt$5vb]

*facepalm* DEXTER is lovely, but I don't think he's an INTJ... if he is, him being a sociopath is not an excuse to claim that all members of said type have this capability. INFJs are cold & calculating as well, we just hide under the guise of Fe. Feelers commit crimes of passion everyday. INTJs: Your delivery is awesome. Don't package it with a pretty little bow. The truth is ugly & it hurts. INFJs are often guilty of the same blunt delivery. If I can swallow MY hypersensitivity & love you guys, than all other types have no excuse. Put on your big girl panties & deal with it, people!

 

[InvisibleJim]

"its not what you say, but how you say it?".

I once decided to test this axiom.

I made an inflammatory statement to an individual via ventrilo, Result = Hohoho. 1 Day later I made the same inflammatory statement word for word in a thread, Result = That's very rude, grr grr grr.

People = a bit mad.

 

[Nixie]

[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION]; You had me at "via ventrilo"....

 

[technics]

Things I have learned about relating to the male INTJs in my life:

-someone could pull their toenails off, and they STILL wouldn't tell your secrets. (SO awesome)
-DO NOT ask them any question to which an honest answer will crush your tender little INFJ heart! If you do, please know that they did not intend to hurt you.

Your whole catalogue of INTJ characteristics was quite accurate. I picked those above because I really saw myself in them.

Concerning the secrets: It's not that I am continuously forcing myself to keep secrets, but rather that I am not aware of them. I easily "forget" them. When someone tells me a secret, somehow it gets stored not as a fact, but as a hunch. And when things in my life occur that are slightly related to this secret, that hunch comes to the fore and links all related aspects to one single, coherent hunch. That's probably why people think we are so sure we are right. I think that's Ni.

The funny thing about this is that because I don't tell secrets (which also means that I don't multiply gossip), and since people know this, they all come to me to tell me all their gossip. So somehow I've become the "mailbox" for all kinds of gossip. But the good thing about it is that I get lots of information about my social environment (I can rule out inconsistencies in the gossip I receive).

And as for the tender little heart: That is very true. I'm very blunt on this one; probably not as blunt as other INTJs. I try to use softer words (the Germans have a very nice phrase, they call it "to say something through the flowers"). But the good thing about it: People all come to me to get objective feedback. So I've become the consultant next door in my neighborhood (where you can also deposit your gossip). Haha.

 

[Nixie]

I agree [MENTION=4137]technics[/MENTION]; about becoming someone that people confide in. Another aspect of that for me in the workplace is that people come to me as "someone" behind the scenes who can help them solve their work problems. I get trusted with the secrets and have management's ear about where potential problems exist. I have played this role officially (as a union steward) and unofficially (just cause people knew I was trusted by the supervisor) in most of my jobs. It is a matter of knowing/deciphering what is personal issues and which are problems that have the potential of making work difficult or should be addressed. I agree with the filtering of information--that is the most important aspect of the process.

 

[gps]

Go watch "Dexter" to get a real good look at how INTJ's think Even before that show though, I always pictured them as the serial killer types... calculating... keep to themselves...

When I hung out at perC for awhile this is what I heard a lot about INTJ's. wtf?? Sure the Fe sucks but the Fi is pretty strong. I won't kill you if I am mad at you but I am pretty sure that I could make you wish you were dead.

I mean those are two totally different things!!!

To an INTJ ... as per compartmentalization, passive-aggressive behavior, double standards, self-justification, rationalizing ... whateva.
Which only ads evidence to the theme of INTJ overt behavior versus sub rosa undercurrents and unilateral `make you wish you were dead' via not-too-up-and-up means of manifesting such.

Our INFJ friend here will learn as she goes, I'm sure.
Her INTJ will manifest his own set of attitudes and behaviors which will deviate from the INTJ stereotypes as per his unique phenotype.

 

[Nixie]

LOL you speaking of passive aggressive! Or maybe the post was um, a joke. Good try.

Edit: Gah, more shorthand on my part. To clarify. Reads better as: Or maybe MY post (referenced by said individual) was um, a joke. Cause yea, if you are my friend I am probably pretty devoted to making the friendship work and if you aren't, well I am not going to get into any real type of emtional turmoil enough to hate you in the first place. So yea, my post was meant to be funny. Not to say I don't get angry but it rarely happens and when I do, people flee before me..

 

[gps]

LOL you speaking of passive agressive!
Or maybe the post was um, a joke.
Good try.

As if?
If you want to debate the issue start a thread in which EVERYBODY can participate.
If you've got an ax to grind with me, and you can't weave that aggression into something to do with this thread, it just might be better to take it elsewhere ... to another thread, VM, or PM ... even off group if you'd like.
If you're feeling froggy in a non passive aggressive way ... LEAP!
I'm feeling playful.
Want me to tie one hand behind my back?

So ... how can those reading along use this bit of interplay between an INTJ and an INTP to learn something about how INTJs interact with either `others' or INTPs in particular?
OR the enneagram type one subspecies of INTJ?

I had an INTJ enneagram type 8 woman `friend' who behaved similarly.
She was great at trashing the foundational trust necessary for intimacy of any sort.

Perhaps an INFJ woman can build some foundational trust with an INTJ man.
I'm wishing her the best of luck in this regard.

 

[Peppermint]

I had an INTJ enneagram type 8 woman `friend' who behaved similarly.
She was great at trashing the foundational trust necessary for intimacy of any sort.

Butthurt bias alert!

 

[Nixie]

Butthurt bias alert!

LOL

[MENTION=3738]gps[/MENTION]; No axe to grind. Um, yea, and I wouldn't start any kind of thread to address a simple explanation and comment regarding something I found humorous in your post.

I am sure that with any new relationship there is a learning curve. Ni attempts to find understandings for "why". INTJs have different world views than INFJs but I would say that I find a high degree of compatibility between myself and the INFJs around here. I think it will just take some time and effort to build a solid relationship. I know that I take a great deal of time to contemplate before I reach the decision to be on board 100% but when I make that decision, I am totally committed.

 

[splott]

*nod* Not gonna explain what all happened cuz I still don't entirely understand...but he's not the most self-aware 28-year-old evar. He's running into issues of his own that he doesn't even understand...he looks back afterwards, and sees he was being an asshole, and sincerely apologizes...but he's not entirely sure why he was being an asshole in the first place? He DOES care about me, he's NOT angry at me, he might be angry at SOMETHING, but it's not me per se...but I'm the one trying to connect with him, so I'm the one getting the brunt of it.
As a certain skinny-little-guy-with-bear-spray noted, we're not really monogamous, but due to my insecurities and his weird flip-out issues, we're effectively physically monogamous right now (if not emotionally)...that could breed some resentment, but I think he'd be more upfront with me if he knew that was it (and it's not as if I'm having sex with anyone else either). The other woman who wanted to be in his life...is also having similar issues with him.

It's all very complicated, and I'm trying not to talk it to death with this fairly-traditional-male (even besides the INTJ thing) who doesn't really thrive on analyzing his emotions....which means i'm kind of backing off by default. i don't want to and he says he doesn't want to slow things down/back things off...but the signs point the other direction from his words, signs point to "yes, this is all too much right now, please back off".
Worst case scenario, he'll have to seek me out and choose to spend time with me, rather than the other way 'round. :/

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Also, I forgot to say it before but I type the way I talk on purpose. Lots of ellipsis...cuz I tend to stop and think when I talk, and the ellipsis are a nice pause, a little bigger than a comma but not a full-stop.