Still want to have a baby? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Still want to have a baby?

These "less intelligent" people generally come from poor backgrounds with little effective education.

Perhaps it is better to say that our perception of "less intelligent" relates this to wealth since judeo/christian societies have made money, possessions, prestige, power and such the definition of success.

In many Native circles, the idea of power and prestige isn't based on material things like money or possesions. In some ways, being highly educated is seen as suspicious and less traditional. I think when you struggle so hard as a culture to hold onto existence in the face of terrible actions taken against you, it makes people cling harder to the past rather than embrace the good that "others" may bring to your culture.
 
I don't believe that kids are born smart or dumb. Contrasting abilities, yes, but your upbringing does a lot to influence your use of abilities. A kid born into a poor family with little education isn't stupid by nature. Given the proper opportunities they could make use of the tools and abilities inherent in all of us.

These "less intelligent" people generally come from poor backgrounds with little effective education.

People being born as a blank piece of paper is a lie. That being said the environment effects too, of course.
 
I don't believe that kids are born smart or dumb. Contrasting abilities, yes, but your upbringing does a lot to influence your use of abilities. A kid born into a poor family with little education isn't stupid by nature. Given the proper opportunities they could make use of the tools and abilities inherent in all of us.

These "less intelligent" people generally come from poor backgrounds with little effective education.
I agree. And would add that there is a correlation between close mindedness and intelligence. Many people evaluate their world without ever seeking more information. Those that I would describe as intelligent are for ever seeking more knowledge.
 
This stuff concerns me, but I still want to have children. I think it's important to have intelligent children being brought up in the world.
 
This stuff concerns me, but I still want to have children. I think it's important to have intelligent children being brought up in the world.

Presumptuous much? :tongue:
 
I want to have kids, but not my own. Adopting apparently solves both problems -- not bringing more people into the world while also providing a nurturing and (hopefully) intelligent environment for children who otherwise might not have much of either.
 
The thing that gets me though.

Is that.

If the more, 'intelligent' people stop having babies.
Does this mean that more 'less intelligent' people
will have babies. Thus the world becomes a bit
worse than it already is. Just a little thought.

Hey I think you should read this article. It briefly touches upon this topic. What I find so fascinating about this article is that it is so relevant today and was written in 1968. Let me know what you think.

http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html
 
I want to have kids, but not my own. Adopting apparently solves both problems -- not bringing more people into the world while also providing a nurturing and (hopefully) intelligent environment for children who otherwise might not have much of either.

Adopting is so good! My grandmother had four biological children and five adopted, one of whom was my mother. I think it's such a wonderful thing to do.
 
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Hey, be nice :p I plan on raising my children to be thoughtful and tolerant. That's better than many people in this world.

I'm sure you do, but parents are like drivers: almost all of them think they're above average. Judge by the results, not by the ambitions.
 
I'm sure you do, but parents are like drivers: almost all of them think they're above average. Judge by the results, not by the ambitions.

I get your point. But of course I can't know what kind of parent I will be until I have a child. Btw, I know I'm a shit driver, so I don't do it! Haha.
 
Wanted to bring this conversation back in, just got back from 3 days solid labour. o_O
 
I do not want children. Domestic pursuits don't appeal to me. I do not believe in marriage or sex and while I have contemplated that artificial insemination and adoption are both good choices, I don't want children, not a life goal of mine at all.
 
I think I do eventually want children, but I'm not positive.

My biggest fears are not making enough money to support a family and not having a good wife. And of course I would not want them right away.

I might never have children.

As for world population? Well, I don't feel like people deal with the question intelligently. The problem is not the number of people we have. The problem is the amount of resources we are wasting and the degree to which our ways of living are not sustainable.
 
As for world population? Well, I don't feel like people deal with the question intelligently. The problem is not the number of people we have. The problem is the amount of resources we are wasting and the degree to which our ways of living are not sustainable.

I agree with this completely!
 
Even if I do decide to have a kid, that means a net loss of 1 person on my part. I'd still be doing the world a favour.
 
I see two problems here: overpopulation and intelligent populations. So the ultimate goal would be to produce a smaller, more intelligent population, right?

Overpopulation: This problem could not be solved simply by regulating birth. If everyone lives forever, we still have a problem. In other words, people don't die enough. Morbid, yes, but without death, one cannot appreciate life, for there is no motivation. Part of the problem with overpopulation is that the people from less privileged backgrounds that need to consider having fewer children are the very people that have limited access to information and/or feel that without producing a multitude of children, their family lines will die out (which is apparently more undesirable than trying to live on a planet that does not have enough resources), so they continue to produce loads of children, forming a vicious cycle of need>potential for production.

Intelligence: I think part of the problem with the children of today (my generation included, of course) is that most of the people that have kids are kids themselves and know nothing about how to be a parent. The society (at least in America, from what I've seen these past 20 years) is so focused on being 'cool', up to date, competitive, and efficient, that they've lost sight of how to teach someone the basic skills of how to be a person. Kids are not taught that stealing is wrong, they're taught that getting caught is wrong, and that you have to pay a price for getting caught. Stealing just gets you free stuff and the cops are mean. Moms want to be their daughter's best friend and fit in with all her friends, so you find teenage girls that have no idea how to carry themselves or keep their hormones to themselves. Their moms go and sign them up for tanning booths (aka: cancer beds), skimpy clothing, and nose/belly button piercings. Mom participates in all of this, plus she bleaches her hair because 'blonde is better' (and covers grey). Then they send their kid to church camp to 'get away from technology' and are all surprised when the kid gets sent home because they were doing things in the pool that no one should ever have to witness. Perhaps all this could be fixed if parents knew how to be parents instead of friends, and kids could prevent themselves from having kids. Yes, I know, that whole argument about how girls used to get married at have kids at 13. BUT that was back when people were responsible for their actions at that age, whereas now people of that age are told that they're immature, don't know jack diddly, and besides, if you do something dumb, your record will be sealed when you turn 18 anyway. Oh, and schools can't discipline children anymore because "my precious angel could never do that, and you should never spank my baby. Oh, the pain you want to cause them!" Bleh. You can also never embarrass a child in a classroom, nor can you try to incite any kind of motivation for them to learn. That would be too 'mean', 'harsh', or 'damaging to their psyche'. I'd say the intelligence problem, at least in America, is mostly due to the children running the show because parents don't know how to parent and schools being unable punish them in any way to show that there are consequences for actions.
 
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I see two problems here: overpopulation and intelligent populations. So the ultimate goal would be to produce a smaller, more intelligent population, right?

Overpopulation: This problem could not be solved simply by regulating birth. If everyone lives forever, we still have a problem. In other words, people don't die enough. Morbid, yes, but without death, one cannot appreciate life, for there is no motivation. Part of the problem with overpopulation is that the people from less privileged backgrounds that need to consider having fewer children are the very people that have limited access to information and/or feel that without producing a multitude of children, their family lines will die out (which is apparently more undesirable than trying to live on a planet that does not have enough resources), so they continue to produce loads of children, forming a vicious cycle of need>potential for production.

Intelligence: I think part of the problem with the children of today (my generation included, of course) is that most of the people that have kids are kids themselves and know nothing about how to be a parent. The society (at least in America, from what I've seen these past 20 years) is so focused on being 'cool', up to date, competitive, and efficient, that they've lost sight of how to teach someone the basic skills of how to be a person. Kids are not taught that stealing is wrong, they're taught that getting caught is wrong, and that you have to pay a price for getting caught. Stealing just gets you free stuff and the cops are mean. Moms want to be their daughter's best friend and fit in with all her friends, so you find teenage girls that have no idea how to carry themselves or keep their hormones to themselves. Their moms go and sign them up for tanning booths (aka: cancer beds), skimpy clothing, and nose/belly button piercings. Mom participates in all of this, plus she bleaches her hair because 'blonde is better' (and covers grey). Then they send their kid to church camp to 'get away from technology' and are all surprised when the kid gets sent home because they were doing things in the pool that no one should ever have to witness. Perhaps all this could be fixed if parents knew how to be parents instead of friends, and kids could prevent themselves from having kids. Yes, I know, that whole argument about how girls used to get married at have kids at 13. BUT that was back when people were responsible for their actions at that age, whereas now people of that age are told that they're immature, don't know jack diddly, and besides, if you do something dumb, your record will be sealed when you turn 18 anyway. Oh, and schools can't discipline children anymore because "my precious angel could never do that, and you should never spank my baby. Oh, the pain you want to cause them!" Bleh. You can also never embarrass a child in a classroom, nor can you try to incite any kind of motivation for them to learn. That would be too 'mean', 'harsh', or 'damaging to their psyche'. I'd say the intelligence problem, at least in America, is mostly due to the children running the show because parents don't know how to parent and schools being unable punish them in any way to show that there are consequences for actions.

I want to touch on your second paragraph a bit as it links into one of the biggest issues of our time. I don't agree with some of what you said but it kinda hits a good point.

People don't teach their children anymore. Did anyone my age 30 and under learn how to balance a checkbook, how to pay bills , how to do laundry, how to fill out complex paperwork, about insurance and medical care, about credit cards, Morals (more than than just church), How to deal with sex, how to date someone, how to study, and so on and so on. I world where both parents have to work there is no time for families to live a family life. As much as my family drives me nuts. I wish we had time to just do whatever and not be on a schedule. There is no time to stop and breath and enjoy your life. School consumes much of our lives with afterschool activities take huge amounts of time. Parents don't have time for their kids. And Kids are forced to grow up mentality too fast. We are forced more and more information but less practical knowledge. Many parents are like you an adult you figure it out. Parents think at 18 the only help a child may need is money and a phone call. How many parents are really there for their kids. Actually offer them support and truly mean it and not simply judge them. Or worse they don't let their children live and they tell their children what they should do.

These issue are a big one for me. I don't know that I could fight this trap of being super busy parent. This mass of activity dose more harm then good. What happens when the kids slow down. They don't know what the hell to do. And they loose all motivation because their not being flung in to activity after activity.

I don't know that kinda of life makes having children sound horrible. I couldn't put another person through the constant motion of life that we current experience. It may change and I may want kids eventually but I don't know.