[PAX] - Religious Beliefs - Discussions of differences, not merit. | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

[PAX] Religious Beliefs - Discussions of differences, not merit.

Which are you? Be certain before voting. You might not recognize these terms.

  • Total voters
    50
I'm an atheist and secular humanist. I pray to the church of me each week with my therapist. She is my confessor, my priest, my guidance counselor and sherpa through the mountainous wilderness of my emotional state. I am the ultimate power in my universe.
 
Do not underestimate the power of the force.
 
thirtiesgirl said:
I'm an atheist and secular humanist. I pray to the church of me each week with my therapist. She is my confessor, my priest, my guidance counselor and sherpa through the mountainous wilderness of my emotional state. I am the ultimate power in my universe.
Click to expand...

General question to whoever wants to answer:

Is atheism usually connected with a kind of "deification of self" - by that I mean, is it connected with a view that reality is principally subjective... so that one sees the ultimate power is one's subjective self (much like what is expressed in the post quoted)?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
General question to whoever wants to answer:

Is atheism usually connected with a kind of "deification of self" - by that I mean, is it connected with a view that reality is principally subjective... so that one sees the ultimate power is one's subjective self (much like what is expressed in the post quoted)?
Click to expand...
There are two sides to that. On the one hand, atheism tends to make one feel less important in the grand scheme of things, because an atheist does not believe in a personal God or any grand purpose for humanity beyond what humans make for themselves. On the other hand, it tends to allow more autonomy in life (if there is no belief in destiny involved).
 
TheLastMohican said:
There are two sides to that. On the one hand, atheism tends to make one feel less important in the grand scheme of things, because an atheist does not believe in a personal God or any grand purpose for humanity beyond what humans make for themselves. On the other hand, it tends to allow more autonomy in life (if there is no belief in destiny involved).
Click to expand...

@TheLastMohican: (or anyone who wants to answer). Two consequent questions:

Is atheism independent of the theory of physical determinism? (Some speculate, that if our instruments were accurate/penetrating enough to identify every particle (sub-atomic or otherwise) and every force in a closed system, it would be possible to compute the exact state of the system accurately at any given point in time).

If atheism is independent of the theory of physical determinism, does that imply that some atheists believe/conclude that rational beings have a spiritual (non-physical) soul?
 
Last edited:
Flavus Aquila said:
Is atheism independent of the theory of physical determinism?
Click to expand...
I'd say it's independent, yes, because a person can be an atheist and still believe in souls, spirits, etc., just not relating to a deity. And really, physical determinism is just a thought exercise. Few people think that we should make real changes to the way we deal with people and life due to the possibility (probability) that an omniscient calculator could plot the course of the future. On human scales, I think physical determinism is the reality of matters, but nothing we need to start worrying about.
 
TheLastMohican said:
I'd say it's independent, yes, because a person can be an atheist and still believe in souls, spirits, etc., just not relating to a deity. And really, physical determinism is just a thought exercise. Few people think that we should make real changes to the way we deal with people and life due to the possibility (probability) that an omniscient calculator could plot the course of the future. On human scales, I think physical determinism is the reality of matters, but nothing we need to start worrying about.
Click to expand...

A kind of 'practical belief' that we are in fact making the decisions, without being pre-determined to do so? (vis a vi physical determinism).

Is it more practical to believe in souls (free will - ie. will that is not physically determined) and explain/understand human behaviour according to this belief, than to believe in physical determinism?
(Holding determinism to be true is in fact a belief system, until it can be conclusively demonstrated in respect of rational subjects).

Similarly, is it more practical to believe that God is the cause of existence, rather than to believe existence came about by chance or is in fact an illusion?
 
Atheism is very logical, simple, and clean. It makes quite a bit of sense to have such a world view and upon digging and searching one can easily rationalize and take on such a view as their own. I personally am not atheist as I have had too many personal experiences occur in my life that beg to show me something else. Nevertheless, atheism makes a lot of sense and I completely understand why someone would take that view. I have a lot of respect for it.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
@TheLastMohican: (or anyone who wants to answer). Two consequent questions:

Is atheism independent of the theory of physical determinism? (Some speculate, that if our instruments were accurate/penetrating enough to identify every particle (sub-atomic or otherwise) and every force in a closed system, it would be possible to compute the exact state of the system accurately at any given point in time).

If atheism is independent of the theory of physical determinism, does that imply that some atheists believe/conclude that rational beings have a spiritual (non-physical) soul?
Click to expand...

No. It implies nothing. Atheism is not a set of beliefs. It is a lack of belief in a deity, that is all it is. To apply other qualifiers to it is to mistake what it is. Some atheists certainly do have alternate belief systems that do not apply to a God, but that's got nothing to do with their being Atheist.
 
Ok... My beliefs are basically Animistic and Pantheistic. I believe everything has some variety of soul (a property of sentience). This goes down to every individual particle. As these particles some together their souls sum together, and how so depends on how they interact. eventually the system grows to the scale of the universe, and all those tiny little souls sum together to create a supreme being, which becomes more than the sum of its parts. The result of this is two fold: 1) the resultant deity is far to complex for our mere minds to comprehend and 2) this deity as a whole is completely stagnant, as it is comprised of all forces, which all balance each other. Because of this, it is much more useful to deal with individual peices, or faces, of this deity. This results in many Gods to deal with, each with certain areas and personalities. A little caviat is that things can choose to dedicate an amount of their energy, that comes from the soul, to certain things, "real" or "imagined." As more energy is given to these "imagined" ideas, they become more solidified and seperate from the whole. Therefore, various Gods from history are useful and effective to turn to.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
A kind of 'practical belief' that we are in fact making the decisions, without being pre-determined to do so? (vis a vi physical determinism).

Is it more practical to believe in souls (free will - ie. will that is not physically determined) and explain/understand human behaviour according to this belief, than to believe in physical determinism?
(Holding determinism to be true is in fact a belief system, until it can be conclusively demonstrated in respect of rational subjects).

Similarly, is it more practical to believe that God is the cause of existence, rather than to believe existence came about by chance or is in fact an illusion?
Click to expand...

Isn't this getting into a discussion of merit, rather than differences?
 
Let me get these categories straight:

Lets say there was a kids slumber party and they're about to go to sleep when...

The Monotheistic kid jumps up and says: There's a monster in the closet!
Pantheistic kid says: The monster is the closet!
Holopantheistic kid: The whole room is a monster!
Atheistic kid: I see no evidence for a monster so I assume there is none!
Apatheistic kid: Who cares if there's a monster?!
Agnostic kid: There is no way to know if there is or isn't a monster
Diestic kid: There is a monster but it's not very interesting
Shamanistic kid: There is a monster but only I can talk to it
Animistic kid: My dog is a monster
Antithiestic kid: Shut up I'm trying to sleep!
Polythiestic kid: A monster? There's dozens of them in there!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheLastMohican, Jack, IndigoSensor and 1 other person
Monotheistic-agnostic.

I believe in and worship one loving, meddling God, because of personal experience and because, quite honestly, I need to.

I would not be so arrogant as to assert that my belief is the only true and valid one, though for me it has proven to be so.
 
Currently Agnostic Atheist, with elements of Eastern Philosophy.

I (currently) "believe" that whilst the scientific evidence gathered thus far supports the idea that the universe is not "alive" in any sense other than that it (probably) exists, said universe does however seem to operate in ways that resemble the functioning of a living organism, an organism of which we are all a small but intrinsic part.

So basically I took the concept of Tao, mixed it with the principle behind Gaia theory, applied it to the whole Universe, and tried to make sure that it's all consistent with current scientific understanding. =)

----------

As far as the poll goes, apart from the Agnostic and Atheist options I'm not sure if any of that means there are any other boxes I should be ticking. =/
 
This is really hard for me to quantify because my beliefs are very internal and intrinsic.

I said pantheistic, shamanistic, and animistic. Those three are the closest to what I believe. I have been taught many different things throughout my life, and in essence I have taken those things, then interpreted what I thought it really is and made it my own. In essence I have largely created my own belief's. I call myself "new age" simply for the ease of using that term.

I believe in a god of sorts, and the universe. Both are intertwined, and depending on the ease of convience, I will say which ever makes more sense. I see the universe as the the ultimate just force. Non judgemental, indifferent, exact. It gives you what you put out in accordance with the laws of this lifetime to which you have chosen before you encarnated here. God is very similar, but is a more active force. I really see god and the universe as one, but they are seperable in terms of this. God is more active with your intention and works to keep you on track and send you signs, signals, and messages again in accordance with the laws assigned to you.

I also believe in spirits, souls, ghosts, and in particular, energy. The former three are constant ever present and work in many different ways, some good some bad (explaining all of that would take far too long). The latter of which I put the most importance on. Energy is literally everywhere, and effects everything. I personally put a lot of emphasis on it because I am quite sensitive to it, and I am able to work with it to a degree. It also makes logical sense to me internally. Energy effects everything in nearly limitless ways, and is interlinked with everything else that I believe, some directly, some in very round about ways.

That is a very rough overview but it gets the ground work of it down. My spirituality is very heavily based on what is logical, and what I have experienced in my lifetime.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back