Rape prevention and female self-defense

[Orion]

learn how to do what? defend themselves?

The term "defend" has so many negative connotations. The term self-defence is even more offensive as it suggests passivity, reaction and physicality in and of itself. As opposed to more sound concepts such as pre-emption, avoidance and awareness which are empirically based methods of avoiding dangerous situations.

 

[soulseeker]

The term "defend" has so many negative connotations. The term self-defence is even more offensive as it suggests passivity, reaction and physicality in and of itself. As opposed to more sound concepts such as pre-emption, avoidance and awareness which are empirically based methods of avoiding dangerous situations.

you guys are all so wordy,deep and smart but it's true....if we use defend it's like.. what?!?! the guys are monsters!?!? ahahahaha....self-defence.I don't see it offensive
avoidance and awareness is okay
maybe I can avoid it... but I don't think I have what it takes to get away in situations like those... oh my god.. I'll just pray it won't happen to me or to any girl in the world... as for the guys.. I'll pray they understand what horror they bring to women when they force the women to do it with them..... O God please let them understand

 

[Reon]

you guys are all so wordy,deep and smart but it's true....if we use defend it's like.. what?!?! the guys are monsters!?!? ahahahaha....self-defence.I don't see it offensive
avoidance and awareness is okay
maybe I can avoid it... but I don't think I have what it takes to get away in situations like those... oh my god.. I'll just pray it won't happen to me or to any girl in the world... as for the guys.. I'll pray they understand what horror they bring to women when they force the women to do it with them..... O God please let them understand

And men?

 

[Orion]

you guys are all so wordy,deep and smart but it's true....if we use defend it's like.. what?!?! the guys are monsters!?!? ahahahaha....self-defence.I don't see it offensive
avoidance and awareness is okay
maybe I can avoid it... but I don't think I have what it takes to get away in situations like those... oh my god.. I'll just pray it won't happen to me or to any girl in the world... as for the guys.. I'll pray they understand what horror they bring to women when they force the women to do it with them..... O God please let them understand

Actually that was wrong, everyone has the ability too learn and overcome but it's just that finding the right methods and the right instructor/institution is the hard part. Sorry if that confused you

 

[soulseeker]

And men?

and men that they'd be real men <---as defined/described by mf

 

[soulseeker]

Actually that was wrong, everyone has the ability too learn and overcome but it's just that finding the right methods and the right instructor/institution is the hard part. Sorry if that confused you

I'm sorry ..I answered wrongly

 

[Orion]

I'm sorry ..I answered wrongly

No, no, I meant I was wrong, haha.

 

[soulseeker]

No, no, I meant I was wrong, haha.

oh... what's so wrong with that?..sorry I'm really kind of an LPU

 

[Orion]

oh... what's so wrong with that?..sorry I'm really kind of an LPU

I was correcting myself from what I originally replied to you. It was really wrong it was just a correction.

 

[soulseeker]

I was correcting myself from what I originally replied to you. It was really wrong it was just a correction.

yeah I know... I'm sorry i'm confusing... but have a blessed and happy new year

 

[Krumplenump]

I'd rather have a society where rape held a genuine deterrant rather than a society full of black belt women on tenter hooks waiting for someone to rape them.

That deterrant definately should not be cosy cells with ps2's and satellite TV. If they won't make prisons basic, bland but hygenic processing units that don't pander to inmates wishes 24/7 then I would support capital punishment for cases of child rape or for cases where the perpetrator was quite obviously evil and his crime had been prooven beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[bamf]

Thanks everyone for posting in this thread! The discussion is very interesting, and I look forward to seeing in what direction it heads. In the mean time, I'll be listening to Rape Me by Nirvana.

 

[bamf]

edit:
A huge majority of rapes are committed by men against women

I'm nitpicky, but rape is rape. No matter what.

Yeah, rape is always rape, but a large majority are committed by men against women, thus making it a crime that predominately targets women, and is predominately committed by men. It's rape, but it's also a crime of power against gender/sexuality. Much like murder is murder, but it also can be a racial/hate crime. (Sorry, just not really sure where you were headed with that)


And to be clear to everyone, I'm all for everyone learning self-defense. You are responsible for your own defense. What I am against here, is the way we teach self-defense of women as rape prevention, and ignore many of the underlying issues.

 

[sookie]

You raise a very valid point, indeed. I think that the violent toys, and games all comes down to parenting combined with education in schools. Schools are so focused on testing and achievement that social curriculum is going down the drain. This is so unfortunate.

 

[youhemmein]

I somewhat agree with you mf, except on a couple points.

I do still think that women should be learning self-defense. I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this, so I can't be alone. It's very difficult to defend oneself against someone who is physically much stronger. And it's also true that more often than not, it is not some stranger in a dark alley. For me, it wasn't a stranger. It was someone very close to me, someone I trusted. But I didn't know how to defend myself, and I truly wish I had.

But you're also right. No amount of self-defense training is going to keep these things from happening if the root of the problem is not addressed. And I agree almost completely that the way men and boys are conditioned to view and treat women is largely to blame. But changing these behaviors will take lots of time and be a very concentrated effort, in which I'm sure most people are not interesting in participating, unfortunately.

So yes, change, but until that happens, self-defense.

 

[Lucifer]

...They assume that rape is purely an issue ego and male entitlement created by a society that pushes this ideal of the "assertive male" who brings home the bacon.)

Well I may be wrong but the facts seem to favor the opposite view point.

Research on convicted rapists

See also: Factors increasing men's risk of committing rape
The research on convicted rapists has found several important motivational factors in the sexual aggression of males. Those motivational factors repeatedly implicated are having anger at women and having the need to control or dominate them.[1]


Factors increasing men's risk of committing rape include alcohol and drug consumption, being more likely to consider victims responsible for their rape, being less knowledgeable about the impact of rape on victims, being impulsive and having antisocial tendencies, having an exaggerated sense of masculinity, having a low opinion on women, being a member of a criminal gang, having sexually aggressive friends, having been abused as a child and having been raised in a strongly patriarchal family.


A study by Marshall et al. (2001) found that male rapists had less empathy toward women who had been sexually assaulted by an unknown assailant and more hostility toward women than nonsex offenders and nonoffender males/females.[2]


Freund et al. (1983) stated that most rapists do not have a preference for rape over consensual sex,[3] and Marshall et al. (1991) stated that there are no significant differences between the arousal patterns of male rapists and other males.[4]


Some argue that the capacity or propensity to rape is adaptive in the sense that historically, men with genes which increase their propensity to rape may have had more children, furthering the spread of those genes.

And I thought that this passage might be interesting because it is pertinent to the subject.

Social norms

Sexual violence committed by men is to a large extent rooted in ideologies of male sexual entitlement. These belief systems grant women extremely few legitimate options to refuse sexual advances.[45][46][47] Some men thus simply exclude the possibility that their sexual advances towards a woman might be rejected or that a woman has the right to make an autonomous decision about participating in sex. In some cultures women, as well as men, regard marriage as entailing the obligation on women to be sexually available virtually without limit[48][49], though sex may be culturally proscribed at certain times, such as after childbirth or during menstruation.[50]


Societal norms around the use of violence as a means to achieve objectives have been strongly associated with the prevalence of rape. In societies where the ideology of male superiority is strong, emphasizing dominance, physical strength and male honour, rape is more common.[51] Countries with a culture of violence, or where violent conflict is taking place, experience an increase in almost all forms of violence, including sexual violence.[52][53]

 

[Raccoon Love]

Yeah, rape is always rape, but a large majority are committed by men against women, thus making it a crime that predominately targets women, and is predominately committed by men. It's rape, but it's also a crime of power against gender/sexuality. Much like murder is murder, but it also can be a racial/hate crime. (Sorry, just not really sure where you were headed with that)


And to be clear to everyone, I'm all for everyone learning self-defense. You are responsible for your own defense. What I am against here, is the way we teach self-defense of women as rape prevention, and ignore many of the underlying issues.

even though is mostly again woman, it is still possible against man, I was a victim myself when I was youner, which is why I am uncomfortable around the tpic, the topic is not only gender issues but the fact that human beings have always have the instinct to take advantage of those weaker to ge what they want you see it everywhre, and unfortunantly that's nature, tha's how the world is, and if we dont learn something for ourselves theirs nothing you can do about it.

 

[enfp can be shy]

As with everything else, the best prevention is no prevention, but it will take probably a couple of centuries for humanity to stabilize its methods of self-regulation towards maturity. We're barely out of the jungle, for now. Some cultures already seem closer to this goal though. The trends lead towards it being possible, if not inevitable.


As a side note, computers, strangely, never rape each other. They have more interesting things to do.

 

[bamf]

even though is mostly again woman, it is still possible against man, I was a victim myself when I was youner, which is why I am uncomfortable around the tpic, the topic is not only gender issues but the fact that human beings have always have the instinct to take advantage of those weaker to ge what they want you see it everywhre, and unfortunantly that's nature, tha's how the world is, and if we dont learn something for ourselves theirs nothing you can do about it.

How very true. Rape can (and does) happen to people of all sexes, ages, ethnic backgrounds, and what not. I didn't mean to downplay that rape can happen to anyone. My thoughts were targeted mainly at man/woman rape, but you are so very right. Rape can be a crime of all different proportion, but at its core it's a crime of power.

I'm sorry to hear what has happened in the past, Raccoon.

 

[the]

Rape is not seen as a low level crime, it is up there with murder.

pretty much everyone i have talked to about rape see at as the #2 crime next to murder.