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Past Lives

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Questingpoet, Aug 10, 2010.

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  1. Questingpoet

    Questingpoet Not Afraid to Use His Beard
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    I don't remember ever seeing this theme discussed here before, so I 'll put it out there. Do you believe in Past Lives, or basically in Reincarnation? It's an old view, one that Christianity at one time held to be true. I've known a few people that have strong memories of past lives. I'll throw out more of my views as this goes on, but in general reincarnation is part of my belief system. So what do you think?

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  2. kita

    kita <font color=#990066>Regular Poster</font>

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    I sometimes wish I believed in these kind of things, but I don't.

    I could see someone being influenced by genetics in an unusual way, so that one could believe it to be reincarnation.

    I also can imagine someone by chance being so similar to someone who lived in the past, that people would think it reincarnation.
     
  3. sassafras

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    I think it's certainly possible. We don't know what happens to us when we die and we've always been very creative with coming up with a number of explanations, some of which were rather perceptive.

    Personally, I don't know if I buy into the recycled soul theory quite the same way that a lot of New Agers tend to describe it. For instance, I'm highly skeptical of anyone who says that they "remember" or have "glimpses" of their past lives because I don't believe that a cluster of memories would exist holistically without the unique and intricate neuron pathways that are produced and sustained by the physical brain. Furthermore, I know enough about human psychology to know how highly suggestible we are.

    That all being said, I do believe that something happens with the energy that gives us life force. Energy is neither created or destroyed. It very well could be that I share some of the same energy particles that powered Abe Lincoln or Beethoven, for example, though I doubt I am the same, complete "soul" that inhabited another body once upon a time. If anything, I am the cumulation of millions of life-forms that came before me, not just via procreation, but through physical causes and effects that came about from the ever spinning circle of life. I am the sum as well as the whole, and vice-versa.

    And that's pretty much my basic take on cosmology right there.
     
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  4. deadred

    deadred Community Member

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    The concept of reincarnation makes good sense to me. That way, we sow the wind and reap the whirlwind for any evil of which we are a part. If we remembered previous lives, would we not likely be distracted to the point that we might not live the present life in the best way? Let's pay attention to the here and now. The past and future grow from that, don't they? I'm not the kind of person who writes things in stone anyway, but I consider it a reasonable possibility.
     
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    #4 deadred, Aug 10, 2010
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  5. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
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    TDHT pretty much says it. Although I'd add that energy can attract energy and as we coalesce into our current forms I think it's possible we brought other energy with us.

    Science has finally confirmed what I've thought my whole life and they call it Quantum Entanglement. It is shown that when one particle/wave interacts with another particle/wave and then they are separated by distance - If one is accuated to spin - the other wave/particle moves in sychronicity with it. To me this explains the psychic or empathic connections I have experienced in my life.

    I think I am affected in part by the continuity of entanglement with past particle/waves which are now part of me. I don't know if they are my past lives - or my ancestors lives - or people I have known and loved in my past.

    But I feel that energy does affect me somehow today. I know several people who believe we carry the weight of past traumas (hurt and fear) within us.

    I have read the book "Many Lives - Many Masters" and found myself agreeing with at least one aspect of the main character's purpose. And that was to pay back old debts owed. She was instructed to do this so that she may move forward in her path. Interesting concepts in the book. After I read that I started looking at my life and am trying to see if I owe debts to people - sort of in the unfinished business - or someone did something for me and I never thanked them - or I need to be forgiven. That sort of thing.

    I do not believe my "soul" (in it's entirety) will come back in another form. Instead I wonder if the unfinished business of my life today will someone manifest again for me to "finish" in a future existence.

    I believe my Ego is formed as I grow up from a child.

    I believe my true essence ( the energy) that is inhabiting my form is seeking to continue learning and growing. In my view - my Ego gets in the way of this because in our culture we emphasize that we ARE our Egos. In the East - they emphasize the opposite. Currently I'm at the recognizing my Ego for what it is stage, and trying to learn how to accept it for that - which was a survival tool for me to grow from child to adult.

    I am not Just my Ego - with all it's thoughts, feelings, and fear of death. Since I believe that - then I think you would say that I am on the side of believing in reincarnation of past lives.
     
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  6. OP
    Questingpoet

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    I tend to take a view more like TDHT and K-gal have said, rather than the straight up usual take on reincarnation. We are energy in one form or another now and when we die. If we are a developing form of energy then it make sense we could return and continue to develop our "oneness" with everything else. I find the quantum references particular insightful. The things that are being discovered now in this field are things, I believe, that are going to help explain a lot of thing previously negated to the spiritual and unknown realm.

    It is almost certain now that a multiverse (exists). That is infinite parallel universes. If this is the case everything that can happen does happen. Perhaps psychic ability is just the talent of being able to glimpse into these other planes. There are so many things that could be discussed with regards to quantum theory and spirituality. Perhaps these "memories" of past lives that some seem to have are, again, just glimpse into these other quantum planes of existence.
     
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  7. Razare

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    Yep, they're real for some people. Some of us, though (including me I think), had our souls freshly made and this is our first go at life.

    What I've heard on this topic from a spiritual medium that I trust, is that a soul is split as it enters heaven, your soul enters a new human life, but also, your soul remains in heaven for eternity. Which actually makes sense in my crazy, self-derived belief system.
     
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  8. magister343

    magister343 Permanent Fixture

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    No, reincarnation is nonsense, unless you stretch the meaning to refer not to something that is happening now but to the physical resurrection prophesied to occur in the last days.

    The idea of an immaterial soul at all is rather dubious. The soul as the form of a living body which does not survive the death of the body but which can be recreated in a new body by an omniscient and omnipotent being makes much more sense. The bible does not speak of going to Heaven after we die, but waiting unconscious to be revived and put on incorruptibility in order to reign forever with Christ over the New Earth.


    When was this time that Christianity held reincarnation to be true? I know some branches of Judaism hold to it (today including a majority of Hasidic Jews, and 2000 years ago including the more Hellenized Pharisees, although most of the great Rabbis considered it heretical), but I have never seen reason to believe that it was ever a Christian doctrine (again, assuming the resurrection on judgment day does not count.) Many of the earliest Church fathers went to great lengths to oppose the common pagan notion of the preexistence of souls.
     
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  9. OP
    Questingpoet

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    How can you say anything that is so unprovable is nonsense? You know this after so little time? My point in including a Christan/Catholic quote was not to debate the true origins. There is enough evidence for me to believe it was once a belief in some of Christendom. The point was that it's a belief that's held in MANY religions. Its wide spead in Eastern ones, and its the dirty secret in the big Western ones. It it true? That what I wish to see discussed. I, as apparently a few others, believe in it in some form. Though that form does not seem to be the traditional way that people think of reincarnation. Here is some info that talks about the Catholic/Christian beliefs that may have been dis-guarded.


    Between the searching I did previously and some more that I have just
    recently done, there appears to be quite a lot of controversy over the
    existence (or non-existence) of any official Catholic doctrine on
    reincarnation.

    However, most arguments seem to center around the writings of Origen
    (185 - 254 A.D.) and the Second Council of Constantinople (also known
    as the Fifth General Council) in 553 A.D. Everyone seems to agree
    that at that Council, lead by Pope Vigilius, the church officially
    condemned Origen as a heretic, especially for his stand on the
    pre-existence of souls (reincarnation) and the final salvation of all
    men.

    The disagreement comes in whether the church, before 553, accepted (or
    tolerated) reincarnation as an official church doctrine.

    Ludwig Ott, in his book "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" wrote:

    "This doctrine was rejected by a Synod at Constantinople (543) against
    the Origenists, and by a Synod at Braga (561) against the
    Priscillianists... The Fathers, with very few exceptions, are
    opponents of the doctrine of pre-existence upheld by Origen."

    It appears that since that era, the church has held the idea of
    reincarnation so low that they have not even bothered writing official
    doctrines about it.

    The following are some articles about this subject (from both sides of
    the argument) that might shed further light:

    Reincarnation and Catholicism
    http://www.enteract.com/~jcrobin/ReincarnationAndCatholicism.htm

    Christian reincarnation - The long forgotten
    doctrinehttp://www.near-death.com/origen.html

    reincarnation in early church
    http://www.saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/Answers/Church_History/h010801Sarah.html
     
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  10. bamf

    bamf Is Watching You
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    If I do have a past life I must have been some part of a Native American tribe. A couple crazy hazy nights have led me to that conclusion.
     
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  11. Matariki

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    Reincarnation and past lives are interesting ideas none the less and its certainly not one's to throw out the window.
    There are many things that science hasn't proved, either because cannot be proven (doesn't exist in a scientific format) or that we don't have the technology or the knowledge to do so, but that doesn't make the theory rubbish. Science is not the all and end of everything.

    For an example, the theory of atoms began as a philosophical concept in ancient Greece and India, fast forward to the 19th century and boom, hey presto, we have the atomic bomb.

    Due to my Christian beliefs, I do believe in reincarnation. Not in the same way as past psychical lives as such but instead the reincarnation that a person takes when they become a Christian, or known as being 'born again'.

    I am very keen in the paranormal and finding ways on how science can tie in with it, such as proving the existence of the human soul in a way that can be explained in scientific terms.

    I am open minded on this subject.
     
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    #11 Matariki, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  12. klutzo

    klutzo Regular Poster

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    I have had two vivid series of reincarnational dreams from two "past" lives. These are NOTHING at all like regular dreams. One series occurred when I was 13, and someone from that other life had just entered into my current life. I had never even heard the word reincarnation at that point, but when I woke up, I KNEW with absolute certainty that the woman in that dream was me, though she looked very different. I told my parents what had happened and they told me that some people believe in reincarnation and explained what it was. That was when I first started to study metaphysics, which is my favorite subject now. It did not change my parents atheism one bit, so I do not expect to change the mind of anyone here who has not experienced what I did.

    The other series of dreams occured at age 20 when someone from that life entered my current life..... Edgar Cayce said this is the most likely time when such dreams occur. (The Sleeping Prophet, for those who are not familiar with him). As is common, I have a prominent birth mark that is the result of a fatal bullet wound from that life.

    No, I have never been Cleopatra or a queen, or any other famous or infamous person, lol.

    At age 59, I can still recall every detail of those dreams, still smell the earth, feel the wind, feel all of the emotions at full force, etc. I also have had meditative retrievals of four other lives, also involving people who are in my present life, of course looking different and with different relationships to me. In two of these cases, the karma being played out is clear from looking at the past and present relationships. One of those lifetimes that I came up with in meditation was confirmed when a psychic started talking about the exact same life in detail to me. She had been told nothing at all about it beforehand, but was shown a family picture, pointed to that person, and started describing what I had come up with exactly.

    I do not like the word "past" associated with these life recalls. They are taking place in the ever present Now. I believe our consciousness flashes back and forth between all it's parallel lives so fast we cannot perceive it while stuffed into limited human brains. The entity that is me expands outwards, but even those words do not describe it adequately. There is no time and no space. All of these lives are influencing each other in the now. For example, I had a part of my entity in a much younger woman who worked in an advertising firm in the World Trade Center. I had dreams about her constantly, but after 9/11 the dreams stopped, so I believe she passed. She was almost the exact opposite of the person typing this post. I often wondered if she was somehow balancing me.

    QuestingPoet is correct about what occured in Constantinople. At that council, almost 1/3 of the Bible at that time was removed, because it made the church less powerful, and reincarnation was among the things that were removed, for obvious reasons. You can look up the Gnostic and Essene teachings to find some of what was removed.

    I also think reincarnation is the best explanation for the child prodigies we have. How do people compose symphonies when still children? Several of our most famous composers did this. For a recent example, look up Jackie Evancho on YouTube and tell me she wasn't an Italian opera singer. Even at 9 yrs. old, she had the voice and stage presence of a 40 yr. old, with perfect Italian diction. She is 11 now.

    I don't give a fig if people think I am crazy or not, I know what I know. There are many things I have doubts about, but this is not one of them. I do understand how people who have not experienced this would be doubtful. Most people don't believe in things they have not seen or experienced. However, I would be surprised if most INFJs don't at least consider this with open minds. Some other types would be more likely to resist it, no matter how much proof you gave them.

    klutzo
    1w2
     
  13. SamE

    SamE Community Member

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    Perhaps this has much to do with I-consciousness in relation to past life and the present.

    Using sophisticated carbon 14 dating methods, Dr. Frisen and his team of a stem cell researchers in the Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden, found that the average age of cells in an adult body would be between seven and ten years.

    Now if that's the case then our bodies replace every 7-10 years then shouldn't our consciousness do the same, our identity, our personality, our spirit? If the brain reforms new cells why does this not apply to a reforming consciousness?

    That's what I want to know and then I suppose past lives are part of a nucleus of energy that are aspects we travel along a curve that we are being.

    My thoughts on karma, past life, old souls and reincarnation and everything else in between, this'll be long.

    When our scripts are being taught very early on in our lives we are experiencing a re-balancing without realizing that the emotional scale is our temperance. Our attuned frequency towards connecting on a soul level our spirit energy to carry forward this life time. Now this might be strange to understand but that is what being psychic is, its a strong intuitive guidance system that is free from mind clutter and becomes open to our heart.

    Naturally there is a sequential difference that takes into account our patterns and those come towards how we interpret energy through our body and react towards people around us. For without understand how to become conscious and re-balancing our inner guidance system, which is our light energy, our body of light, our being as a connected source of everything towards our broader perspective of ourselves. Then we become disconnected from who we are on a soul level. Then we take on board the manifestation of the world as our guidance system rather than our inner facilitation. In doing so we are confused, our fears amplify instead of our fearlessness. Our guardedness implicitly changes towards guarding our hearts.

    And this is strange to me now, for what we are doing is guarding something that we are afraid of instead of releasing something that would let us feel and become conscious once more of our state of being as more than just this time frame. Then the manifestation of energy that comes to us through our bodies is distorted and the connection with source can hardly be true to form. And that would make sense why very many of us aren't really connected to much of anything spiritual even when we are spiritual and religious. The disconnect amplifies our reactions and we do feed into our subconscious the life blueprints of our conscious realty.

    Its in how dreams create this constant REM state between our waking consciousness and our subconsciousness with the symbols that are intentional from those polarities that exist between our energy states. And that which is present then has the vibrations that we carry and without knowing send outwardly and draw into our experiences on a planar level. Through the negative and positive artifacts of our subconscious and then this comes to pass as our reality. Without first coming to terms with our ability to connect to our source being that is ourselves we are left stranded upon this world navigating our lives in a thinking experience.

    In this instance left brain interactivity rather than a balance of left and right brain awareness.

    Without a proper sense of identity how can we become pronounced enough to affect change when change within feels resistant as has been reinforced through society and our actions alike. And these habits are most interesting artifacts. For they are not without synchronicity themselves. It is a matter of finding a soul level connection so one would assume. Possibly this kind of wisdom manifests from parallel time frames that we have forgotten that are created through Karmic energies and in the present whether we come to see this state of affection as a reincarnated vessel or not we are drawn to certain aspects. And those aspects are often in line with our learning of what went on in our past lives.

    For we do intentionally enter this world in consciousness, and we do intentionally have the power to chose how and when and what and why we are manifesting the energies we do, the way we do after all. And that goes beyond synchronicity. That turns towards our soul level of experience.

    I once talked about psychopomps and monads in another blog. And it has come to my understanding that the monad as our central ego, super ego manifestation of our semi conscious beingness as would afford divinity. And divinity really is a bridge between our consciousness becoming connected to source energy which is ourselves universal. And then when you are connected to this your whole point of view shifts, indeed your whole preconception of what is, what was and what shall be is changed.

    And that is our temporal vessel, a learned disconnect from our broader connection of the universal synchronicities that are presented in this individuation process we like to call earth reality. In order for our souls to mature towards a state of being connected from our heart outwardly as the vessel that carries our intuitive assertions of how we are. To remember that we are Old Souls or at least want to reach that stage on a soul level. To be enabled in learning our connections to ourselves and restore the balance we are meant to learn in some way from our past, present and future. And I'm not talking about this time frame alone. It is but an entry point into our consciousness as a token of our experiences.

    And the older our experiences are, the older soul level resonance we accumulate, the frequency at which point our states shift the more we carry forward in our state of being. For we are none enlightened beings, neither is the Dali Lama for instance, were he to be then this resistance that comes from peace to abandonment to having people pay attention towards the energy that he manifests would be entirely different than it stands. Until we let go and resolve our past incarnations in this time frame. And as such because our body does refresh every 7 years or so like mortally anew with a formidable eternal consciousness then is our reincarnation of consciousness immortal, if it is then why wouldn't we more forward after as would our bodies in their cells move forward unless there is a connection somewhere on a deeper level that we are missing and disconnected from?

    And then time is an illusion, rather it is a preconceived notion that is entirely a physical interpretation rather than made from conscious awareness of expressing who we are as connected wholes. I have often wondered why we are so caught up with time. Is it because our mortality demands to achieve our dreams that are temporal and who so ever knows those worries of ours in a hundred years time? Is it a manifestation of wanting an artifact of lingering mortality to exist in a physical sense thinking the eternal nature of our being would cease being and then our children's children become our epigenetic markers upon this earthen abode.

    Who knows with these things...all I know is I like speculating.

    And I've become aware of past life experiences that are strange.
     
  14. Free Mind

    Free Mind I'm a Dragon! Rawr!

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    I havn't quite done the efficient amount of research to give an in depth answer, but I would say that it can definately be possible. :)
     
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  15. Bird

    Bird Happy Go Lucky

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    Birth marks are scars carried over from past lives.
     
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  16. tovlo

    tovlo Well-known member

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    I don't personally have any conscious sense of a past life.

    Part of my personal spiritual philosophy centers on the awareness that human bodies after death disintegrate, but don't really stop "being". The particles just become something else. Our bodies in death feed birds and become part of the bird. Our bodies in death feed plants and become part of the plants. Humans eat birds and plants and that becomes part of our physical bodies. In my mind, biologically (and I am no biologist, so my understanding is very simplistic) there is no question that physical material makes its way through many varying forms. There is really no end to anything, just different forms perpetually.

    What does that mean in terms of a conscious awareness of individual experience other than our own individual experience? I don't know what the interplay between our consciousness and our physical form is. I think it's possible that some of that consciousness is carried along with the physical material and can be sensed in future manifestations of the material.

    In the end, I believe there is a duality of oneness and individual experience. The question of reincarnation only comes up because we are in the moment of considering the topic trapped at an intersection favoring awareness of individual experience, but behind a film obscuring full sight, oneness is tapping out a message to us.

    Theoretically, this is as far as I feel I can personally go, but I allow for way more possibilities then I can envision.
     
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  17. aeon

    aeon Ooh, a bunny!
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    My sense is that all living things, and indeed, thing-ness in general, are manifestations of form that spring forth from consciousness. Forms arise and forms fade away, but the consciousness that brought forth those forms is eternal.

    So are we reborn? Only in the sense that all forms are reborn, endlessly.

    My sense is that I have lived, loved, and died, and been reborn endlessly, and so shall I be, endlessly. I am the tree that gives shade, I am the sun shining upon it, and I am the crow resting in it, and I say “caw.”

    I will be the autumn leaf, I will be the east wind, I will be a dancer, and on and on — in time, I will be all there will ever be, and I have been all those things. Those things come and go, but my essential nature is formless and timeless, and it shall be reborn and present in the world of thing-ness, eternally.

    That’s my sense, anyway. :noidea:


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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  18. OP
    Questingpoet

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    I'm glad this thread got bumped up. Thanks for all the interesting thoughts guys! :m200:
     
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  19. Solongo

    Solongo Well-known member

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    This is interesting and many cultures including mine practice this when a person dies. The relatives create marks in specific areas of the body before burial; so when the person is reincarnated they can be recognized through the markings as the soul of the deceased taking new form.
     
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  20. Lucidmoon

    Lucidmoon Community Member

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    Though it seems to contradict the tenets of my faith I've always believed this was a possibility. When I became a Christian I asked God to take all of my beliefs and pass them through a sieve only leaving the 100% truth. I was willing to part with anything that hindered or deceived me. That was one of the beliefs that didn't really go anywhere. I don't think about it much but in the past reached the conclusion that all souls are reassigned after death until a decision to serve Christ is made. After that the soul/spirit makes the permanent journey home. I realize there are a lot of holes that can be punched in this which is why I hardly EVER talk about it, especially to other believers. But there it is!
     
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