Is this a safe space for intelligent conversation?

[enigma]

I've been on here a long time. i have seen this cycle repeat itself several time, so I am not surprised we are having this dance again. I do find it disturbing that INFJ's feel they cannot post securely on their own forum.
I look at it this way: this is a huge INFJ fishbowl, where we come with this 'feelers' hope of support and safety among others like us. We find out, whoops - this is actually a very diverse community. Friction is therefore inherent. But we shouldn't be trollbait. We shouldn't be mocked, ridiculed, picked on, or anything else rude or unsupportive. We shouldn't be uncomfortable.
Diversity is good, necessary. Ditto different points of view. But there has to be some sort of self regulation. Mind your manners. Think b4 you post.
Some have mentioned a block button, flag, ignore.... the OP, I think, should be able to click a button and block anyone from their thread they wish. Although this may also cause more hurt feelings. Who knows. I am also disturbed to hear about ppl getting nasty PM's. Really?

INFJs - or anyone - should not have to feel 'under fire' in this forum. People should be able to joke around and still have the maturity to know and respect when this is not appropriate. PAX should be respected and enforced. It is there for a reason. These are real ppl and real feelings behind these screens. I think we sometimes forget that. People are more then the words they post, and words or a screen can be misinterpreted. Please, think b4 you post, clarify b4 getting upset, point out to the poster if you are upset by their post. Everyone shares a degree of the responsibility for this.

Communities like this are always going to go through cycles like this, but we can minimize the hurt by treating each other kindly and with appropriate respect.

 

[Bird]

Can you provide me with a list of locations and things you deem "safe"?

 

[Korg]

You'll have to provide the names of offenders before we can get anywhere.

 

[Ria]

I've been on here a long time. i have seen this cycle repeat itself several time, so I am not surprised we are having this dance again. I do find it disturbing that INFJ's feel they cannot post securely on their own forum.
I look at it this way: this is a huge INFJ fishbowl, where we come with this 'feelers' hope of support and safety among others like us. We find out, whoops - this is actually a very diverse community. Friction is therefore inherent. But we shouldn't be trollbait. We shouldn't be mocked, ridiculed, picked on, or anything else rude or unsupportive. We shouldn't be uncomfortable.
Diversity is good, necessary. Ditto different points of view. But there has to be some sort of self regulation. Mind your manners. Think b4 you post.
Some have mentioned a block button, flag, ignore.... the OP, I think, should be able to click a button and block anyone from their thread they wish. Although this may also cause more hurt feelings. Who knows. I am also disturbed to hear about ppl getting nasty PM's. Really?

INFJs - or anyone - should not have to feel 'under fire' in this forum. People should be able to joke around and still have the maturity to know and respect when this is not appropriate. PAX should be respected and enforced. It is there for a reason. These are real ppl and real feelings behind these screens. I think we sometimes forget that. People are more then the words they post, and words or a screen can be misinterpreted. Please, think b4 you post, clarify b4 getting upset, point out to the poster if you are upset by their post. Everyone shares a degree of the responsibility for this.

Communities like this are always going to go through cycles like this, but we can minimize the hurt by treating each other kindly and with appropriate respect.

Perfectly put.

 

[randomsomeone]

I can't think of any place on the internet that is totally safe or intelligent conversation. I would always go in with a wary eye. Here I think there are people with whom it is safe to have an intelligent conversation, but it is still a forum so anything can happen. For real safety, I find it best to take conversations between people of good will outside the forum environment to pm or email.

 

[jn56uytrx]

I can't think of any place on the internet that is totally safe or intelligent conversation. I would always go in with a wary eye. Here I think there are people with whom it is safe to have an intelligent conversation, but it is still a forum so anything can happen. For real safety, I find it best to take conversations between people of good will outside the forum environment to pm or email.

I have been on a number of forums since the mid-2000's. I would say that with few exceptions, I felt very safe to express myself and that my expression would be received with respect, if not always agreement. This is first forum I have been on where there has been the sense that my expression is likely to be received with disrespect without repercussions and in many cases, official support.

I can appreciate your commentary about bringing conversation to pm or email, and I agree that is the safest, however there are serious disadvantages to that kind of communication. Those kinds of communication vehicles are generally dyadic and as an infj, I thrive on exploration of multiple perspectives. I find it unfortunate that the first forum I have experienced where that kind of exploration is not comfortable has been on a forum with infjs in it's title. It is beginning to seem more and more of a misrepresentation.

 

[Peppermint]

You'll have to provide the names of offenders before we can get anywhere.

Good luck with that.

 

[Korg]

Good luck with that.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[randomsomeone]

Those kinds of communication vehicles are generally dyadic and as an infj, I thrive on exploration of multiple perspectives.

Good point, and I agree. For me, though, the credibility of the perspectives I choose to explore is also important, especially with certain subjects, and this is generally pretty up-for-grabs in the forum environment. Forums tend to be fairly random by nature....if I can handle this, fine...if not, then perhaps it's not such a "safe" place for certain levels of discussion. It's a matter of aligning one's expectations.

One can and does meet some fine people on forums....even long-term friends...so that is a big positive and probably well worth the engagment. I just don't suggest throwing caution to the wind, not in a completely open forum.

 

[Stu]

This user is on your Ignore List.

It is very INFJ. Those of us who hold rational, "materialism-istic" viewpoints hold them dearly. Some over identify with their materialism and get evangelical in their desire to disabuse others who hold less empirically provable beliefs.
e.g

...............when we find it hard to accept the truths of causality. Life is just a matter of cause and effect.

I know because I fervently hold both viewpoints. I am a physical rationalist who recoils from anyone claiming knowledge of a world beyond our senses.

I am a mystical wannabee, carefully weaving my way through my layers of perceptions to glimpse at the underlying truths of our world.

Zak- I also encourage a healthy use of the ignore feature. You have to ask yourself how much of your reaction to what others are saying is your own projection?

 

[The Jester]

What gets me is the gossipy BS that goes on a lot (who cares who you have a forum crush on, effing seriously), but I don't want to start this into a bitchfest or anything.

Such threads are sometimes necessary, because it can create the feeling that the members of the forum can be seen as a collectivity.
The active members are included. Such group-oriented threads are good for the community.

The only negative side I see that if someone is excluded and feels left out.

Now, I would see myself as one of the people who doesn't take 'magic and mysticism' seriously.
As long as you don't claim you have the absolute truth, I have no problem with it though.

 

[myself]

You'll have to provide the names of offenders before we can get anywhere.

Is this really necessary?

Zak already brought up the issue.

People can make adjustments accordingly.

Zak is talking about a general code of conduct. Don't be a bot.

Have some respect for the people you are communicating with.

What good would be accomplished by calling out specific individuals? Doesn't sound wise.

Read the OP.

[MENTION=1519]The Jester[/MENTION] . . . Why are people afraid of absolute truth?
If you don't believe in magic or mysticism, that is your choice.
Should I take issue with that?
Honestly it seems kinda closed minded to me. I've been there myself.

You could choose to believe otherwise, if you were open to the idea...

Can't we entertain the possibility anymore?

Why is there such firm belief in the matrix and almost a complete lack of regard for the internal mechanism which interacts with it all?

 

[The Jester]

@The Jester . . . Why are people afraid of absolute truth?
If you don't believe in magic or mysticism, that is your choice.
Should I take issue with that?
Honestly it seems kinda closed minded to me. I've been there myself.

You could choose to believe otherwise, if you were open to the idea...

Can't we entertain the possibility anymore?

Why is there such firm belief in the matrix and almost a complete lack of regard for the internal mechanism which interacts with it all?

[MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION]

Is it closed minded because I don't like it when people claim to have the absolute truth, which implies that my beliefs are false?
People aren't afraid of absolute truths, people crave for absolute truths.
That's why there are so many religious people.

Anyway, my two best male friends are religious.
I don't have a problem with that, even though it's pretty obvious I'm an atheist.
That's because they don't judge me for what I believe, and they don't tell me that I'm wrong.
When talking about their beliefs, they say: 'I don't agree with you there, I believe that...'

 

[Norwich]

Any comments that seemed as though they could have been directed at me were easy to dismissed. However, I must admit, I'm one of those people who have chosen to spend less time here. Because I have not felt directly wounded, I cannot offer the specifics many crave. All I can say is that the atmosphere here is not comfortable for me. Many people enjoy raucous debate. I get my fill of that by refereeing my daughters' disputes. Coming here to witness more, holds little appeal. Thus much of my time was spent on people's blogs. But lately the atmosphere seems permeated with negativity.

Much has been said about "feelers" and their annoying sensitivity. One of the things I'm very reactive to, is when I perceive someone may have had their feelings hurt. I can't count the number of times I've worried about that, on these forums. If I know the person, I will inquire and, if need be, offer consolation. Many times I am reassured that no personal offense was taken. But the next time a snide comment is made, I worry again. I can't seem to short circuit this tendency.

When I chose to stop spending very much time here, it wasn't because I or any of my friends had been personally offended. It was because the atmosphere had become such that I always perceived new reasons to be concerned that someone may have been hurt. I realize to many, this will seem vague and ridiculous. But let me ask you this, would you hang out in a place where you felt anxiety much of the time?

 

[myself]

[MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION]

Is it closed minded because I don't like it when people claim to have the absolute truth, which implies that my beliefs are false?

Yes.

You are convinced that your beliefs are true.

 

[The Jester]

Yes.

You are convinced that your beliefs are true.

No.

It's because that way there can be no fruitful discussion.
But thanks for having your mind already made up about me [MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION].
I'm glad you're so good at analysing my thought pattern and my behaviour.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I have to say. I'm saddened to see this cycle happening again. And I'm even more saddened to see people still invalidate member's feelings when this topic of safety comes up.

Granted not really a issue to me on the topic of mysticism. But of the larger issue of INFJ forums being a safe place. The forum is defiantly in a bad place emotionally. I would assert this is not a new issue. We are stuck in a too nice , too brutal paradigm. We seemed to have lost honesty and empathy along the way.

We as forum can't learn from our past mistakes so we endure the repeats.

 

[Free Mind]

I have noticed this ominous negativity a little and "think this way" attitude. It's mainly just how different everyone is on this forum isn't it?

For me though, and this is relating to the OP. Sometimes I just post something anyway even if I don't feel comfortable doing so. If someone starts questioning me that's ok. I can learn more then...But when they just attack what I have said and try to prove every little part wrong in a negative manor, especially about the mysticism and spirituality, that can be slightly irritating...But I can live with it, it's all a part of the game for me really.

 

[myself]

No.

It's because that way there can be no fruitful discussion.
But thanks for having your mind already made up about me [MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION].
I'm glad you're so good at analysing my thought pattern and my behaviour.

There must be a misunderstanding here.

My intent was not to offend you.

We were talking about absolute truth and you say God is dead and I'm challenging that idea... that's all.

But hey, we don't need to talk about it if you are not interested in doing so!

 

[The Jester]

There must be a misunderstanding here.

My intent was not to offend you.

We were talking about absolute truth and you say God is dead and I'm challenging that idea... that's all.

But hey, we don't need to talk about it if you are not interested in doing so!

Your intent was not to offend me, however you were only trying to fit me in that little box you thought I belonged in.
You were not even trying to see it from my perspective, and you made a statement about how I thought.
Which was very wrong. In the future, you shouldn't assume things about me when you don't know me.

Second of all, the 'God is dead' was a quote by Nietzsche. I brought it up, to make the statement that I believe it's silly to hide behind biblical quotes.