Also, pain doesnt "clean" the body, what kind of psychosis are you in? You might want to seek professional help if you like to hurt people and cause pain and make them cry so you can feel too, thats kind of sick. This entire thread is kind of nauseating.
INFJ's are Sadistic!
- Thread starter Chessie
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On some level within me I can understand this very well. The first thing that popped into my head was "This sounds like a very good process to use on Antisocial Personality Disorder types". So far - in the conventional mental health world - there's not any real methods that are effective with that group.
Takes a special person to do what you do. And I can see where some may appreciate it very much.
Am I sadistic? Cruel? Probably not I'd say. I've been hurt and endured so much physical pain in my lifetime that I doubt I could intentionally do it to someone else. Besides - I'd feel their pain while I was inflicting it and there'd be a feedback loop going on between us. Uggh. Nope - couldn't handle that one.
I'm the one they should come see after they've been with you to crack open their thick shell of illusions. LOL
Cool thread question Chessie.
Thank you for your opinion Billy. I'm sure it will change minds and hearts to hear such condemnation. You speak from a truly staggering supply of personal ignorance about the subject. Your nausea can be cured with a light dosing of apple cider vinegar mixed with honey and warm water.
Like Billy, I see myself more as a anti hero (Neutral good) person than sadistic. With that being said, when I'm irritated, I do have thoughts about the best way to hurt a person (Not to the point of real physical or emotional pain. Just enough to make them think about what they've done/embarrass them). When I'm angry. Well. I don't get angry. For a reason. Anyways, I do find this comment interesting: "Some take it as a point of personal pride that they don't hurt people despite what is an incredible capacity to do so, particularly realizing how deeply into people's heads we can get." I've heard this comment countless times from INFJs, I would think that contemplating how much damage you can do to a person might be a sign of sadism. Or perhaps it's just Ni examining situations.
About me: When I get irritated enough to act, I don't tend to go all out and try to destroy a person from the bottom up (Although I suppose I can. Never really thought about it) I just tend to point out their hypocrisy, characters flaw in relations to me, and such. More Te/Fi.
The most violent thought I could have is hitting someone...... yeah, I'm going to say that's about it.
This thread scares me.
This thread scares me.
As I'm someone with a few odd kinks (Furry) I feel the need to say this. I respect your desire to be sadist as others desire to not be. I suggest you do the same. You can't and shouldn't expect everyone to like or even understand what you find to be enjoyable.
I don't sit here and tell people to like furry art. And if they say not thats not their thing. I don't call them prudes. I certainty don't get hostile when they don't enjoy my kink. Granted all I want in relation to my kink, is to be thought no less of me. Anything more than tolerance is bonus in my book. I've seen you posting in this way for a while now. Your trying too hard to force people into your world view. This is not always advisable especially where topics of sexuality and other very person topics are concerned.
So Drop your hostility. Your explaining a misunderstood topic. Of course you going to have confusion, distrust, and possible revolution. Its up to your not to react in kind. Remember your actions reflect back upon your respective subculture. Its perfectly fine for anyone to not enjoy or flat out find someone's kink creepy. They have that right. As long as they are tolerant of that person. And you have been given tolerance. This is all anyone must provide.
Someone's sex life is private, its really no one's business. Others certainly don't have to understand or like it. Further as long as it follows the ideals of consent, and dosen't cause harm. Or in the case of BDSM SSC (Safe, Sane and Consensual) is acceptable. I think you need to stop trying to prove something.
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Yeah I can see Ni examining the most efficient way to handle someone if they are in need of a lesson, but... to dwell on wanting to hurt someone until they cry, so I can feel what they feel... issues.
I figure for myself, it's a healthy outlet. I have friends who play some video-games whose violence I can barely believe. A number of them watch movies where acts a thousand times more violent than anything I can conceive of ever doing to a person are displayed. They actually manage to make my stomach turn and I say 'More power to you!'. I still haven't watched all of Hostel or Ichi The Killer.
The violence is there. It's real and it's present in people, but if it's repressed then it comes out explosively. Repression is the worst possible method of dealing with any human impulse. They must have a healthy means of expression.
Two people who get off on pain, one on giving, one on receiving, can have a really nice relationship. I'm not saying that it's for everyone or even most people. This is just a truth. People are violent. If they don't make a way to control it, it ends up controlling them and then someone gets damaged and harm is done.
I wanted to bring it up about INFJ's in particular because a lot of the INFJ's I know express it in a specific way, which is really violent internal fantasies and really non-violent external lives with a tendency to 'pop' occaisionally and snap and yell at someone or mentally shut down completely if they don't have a way to get it out of their systems.
The violence is there. It's real and it's present in people, but if it's repressed then it comes out explosively. Repression is the worst possible method of dealing with any human impulse. They must have a healthy means of expression.
Two people who get off on pain, one on giving, one on receiving, can have a really nice relationship. I'm not saying that it's for everyone or even most people. This is just a truth. People are violent. If they don't make a way to control it, it ends up controlling them and then someone gets damaged and harm is done.
I wanted to bring it up about INFJ's in particular because a lot of the INFJ's I know express it in a specific way, which is really violent internal fantasies and really non-violent external lives with a tendency to 'pop' occaisionally and snap and yell at someone or mentally shut down completely if they don't have a way to get it out of their systems.
- Sep 28, 2008
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I see what you are saying Chessie; it is quite healthy to have an outlet, but don't you think pyschological trauma is just as bad if not worse than physical? The mental state you are referring to is very dangerous if abused in any way. I mean we are talking total brain washing capabilities. A violent movie like Ichi (awesome btw) is entirely seperate from reality. People run into trouble when they blur the line between fantasy and reality and what you seem to be getting off on is a purposeful pursuit of the blurring of that line. Seems very dangerous and unhealthy, particularly for those not fully aware of the possible outcomes and implications - and might I suggest that's the majority of people.
This comes as no surprise to me. I've noticed this streak in many different Feeling types actually, though few believe it.
I can't see how this can be practiced safely...at all. Breaking someone down would probably cause quite significant long term harm, well for most people would be my estimation. Unless I'm misinterpreting something, but this goes beyond just inflicting some pain in a supposedly safe setting.
I can see how you think this could be a cleansing state, theoretically. However, I still think it's far too risky.
I tend to be sadistic with my RP characters. 
Almost every one of them has nearly died in incredibly painful situations at least once.
Almost every one of them has nearly died in incredibly painful situations at least once.
No, I don't notice this in myself either. I think any type can have and repress violent thoughts. As civilized human beings we all need to find ways to deal with these types of impluses and thoughts. Some people that have brain damage or chemical imbalances have a particularly difficult time. I'm not really sure that the things you are attributing to INFJ's are particularly valid. Anytime someone says they know a lot of INFJ's in real life I have big ??? that comes up immediately. I'm over 40 and I only know of a few irl for certain.
MBTI statistics say we are 1.5% of the population, and even if that is wrong by 100% you are still taking about 3% of the population. Probably many of the people you are talking about are other types. But I just don't seeing this as being typical of just INFJ's. Anyone can wish to do harm to others at times. It's tied in with the survival instinct I think. We just happen to be more empathic so it seems more strange in us.
MBTI statistics say we are 1.5% of the population, and even if that is wrong by 100% you are still taking about 3% of the population. Probably many of the people you are talking about are other types. But I just don't seeing this as being typical of just INFJ's. Anyone can wish to do harm to others at times. It's tied in with the survival instinct I think. We just happen to be more empathic so it seems more strange in us.
This isn't me in the least bit. I think there is a huge difference between aggressive thoughts, and sadistic nature. I have never been in a physical altercation, I've learned how to avoid it. Sure in the moment I've wanted to knock someone's teeth in for being a complete douchebag, but actually thinking about doing it makes me feel uneasy. In situations where I've had to restrain someone (only once) I get rather queasy and I absolutely hate doing it. I feel bad when I accidentally squash a spider, I'd feel horrible actually causing pain to another person. I'm almost completely a non-violent person. I'll watch movies, read war history, and the such but partaking in any action of violence goes against my nature.
People do get caught up in the moment and act out physically, but I believe that to be an instinctual thing. If someone came swinging at me, I'd do all I could to protect myself and feel bad about it when I actually got a moment to think. I hardly would say what you are talking about is in everyone.
Whatever people consent to doing in the bedroom is none of my concern, but it sure isn't for me.
People do get caught up in the moment and act out physically, but I believe that to be an instinctual thing. If someone came swinging at me, I'd do all I could to protect myself and feel bad about it when I actually got a moment to think. I hardly would say what you are talking about is in everyone.
Whatever people consent to doing in the bedroom is none of my concern, but it sure isn't for me.
i think people have these possibilities inside of themselves, anything another person has done, any personality anyone has assumed, anything thast been enjoyed or hated, i think i have those potential characteristics inside of myself whether or not i am consciously aware of them or have even thought of them before.
when i am angry at someoen else for being a certain way (not disagreement, but anger), for thinking i could never be like that, i think i am only lying to myself and are therefore the reason i am angry, not bc of the other person.
when i am angry at someoen else for being a certain way (not disagreement, but anger), for thinking i could never be like that, i think i am only lying to myself and are therefore the reason i am angry, not bc of the other person.
- Nov 12, 2008
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Well, let's try this another way. In *reality*, no. I couldn't do that. But in a gaming session? Role-playing online? Sure, I have characters that are sadistic and crazy. But I recognize that those are games and I don't take those characters to work with me (or to my house). They stay in my head until I need that cathartic moment - and then it comes out in the game.
I recognize I have a darker side, and sometimes I have a dark sense of humor. But actually wanting to harm someone? Well...no. I can't do that, and ethically I don't want to. Even for their "greater good." Why? Because I'm not God and I can't "force" change. People will change and/or break when they're ready. If we try forcing them we'll have to deal with some pretty nasty aftermaths and I can't pick up those pieces.
It's an interesting thought, in that you do something that seems horrible at the onset for the greater good of an individual later on. But the revelation must come from the individual or the lesson is lost on them.
I recognize I have a darker side, and sometimes I have a dark sense of humor. But actually wanting to harm someone? Well...no. I can't do that, and ethically I don't want to. Even for their "greater good." Why? Because I'm not God and I can't "force" change. People will change and/or break when they're ready. If we try forcing them we'll have to deal with some pretty nasty aftermaths and I can't pick up those pieces.
It's an interesting thought, in that you do something that seems horrible at the onset for the greater good of an individual later on. But the revelation must come from the individual or the lesson is lost on them.
This has been an interesting topic.
Also a bit alien to this ENTP. Not that I don't have a darker side, but I can honestly say that I have never fantasized about physically hurting someone.
At my absolute worst, in the face of someone inspiring a lot of hate, then I will fantasize about destroying other aspects of their life. About a million little ways to hurt their career, relationships, cars, and reputations flash through my mind. However, I never think about actually knocking their teeth in or anything.
In reality I just don't have it in me to go and exact revenge. This doesn't mean that there'd be no consequences for something done against me and my friends... but I'm horrible at being vengeful.
For instance, when I was 13 a friend of mine once "borrowed" a game of mine without asking, loaned it to her brother, and it ended up broken. I was so upset with her at the time, but I got over it quickly (a day), and we went on being friends again.
However, I never once loaned anything other than hair-ties to her again.
Emotionally I can't hold grudges. I've tried. Two years ago I decided to despise someone forever, for something they'd done to me and a friend of mine. But then later it was too easy for me to see how they were just another dumb flawed human in a world of dumb flawed humanity, and I just wasn't able to do anything mean to them later.
Now, this I did have to tell the guy later that I'd never date him. But that wasn't me trying to be mean, just reasonably not wanting to date someone who would do something like he did.
Also a bit alien to this ENTP. Not that I don't have a darker side, but I can honestly say that I have never fantasized about physically hurting someone.
At my absolute worst, in the face of someone inspiring a lot of hate, then I will fantasize about destroying other aspects of their life. About a million little ways to hurt their career, relationships, cars, and reputations flash through my mind. However, I never think about actually knocking their teeth in or anything.
In reality I just don't have it in me to go and exact revenge. This doesn't mean that there'd be no consequences for something done against me and my friends... but I'm horrible at being vengeful.
For instance, when I was 13 a friend of mine once "borrowed" a game of mine without asking, loaned it to her brother, and it ended up broken. I was so upset with her at the time, but I got over it quickly (a day), and we went on being friends again.
However, I never once loaned anything other than hair-ties to her again.
Emotionally I can't hold grudges. I've tried. Two years ago I decided to despise someone forever, for something they'd done to me and a friend of mine. But then later it was too easy for me to see how they were just another dumb flawed human in a world of dumb flawed humanity, and I just wasn't able to do anything mean to them later.
Now, this I did have to tell the guy later that I'd never date him. But that wasn't me trying to be mean, just reasonably not wanting to date someone who would do something like he did.
^^ This.
I suppose between two consenting adults I could try to understand, but I don't see myself ever participating in that kind of breakdown process. Perhaps specifically for the fact that I have been in this kind of breakdown process and without my consent. It was neither healthy or good. =/
Excluding taekwondo practice, in my entire life, I've only struck one human being, and the scene went like this:
I asked my best friend I could slap him, to see what it was like. He gave me permission. Then I slapped him, apologized half a dozen times, made sure he wasn't hurt, and laughed about it. End of curiosity.
So, no ... I don't have violent fantasies or an interest in revenge. I've joked about it, but it's only ever been a joke ... not serious ... in any way. I laugh at violent jokes because they're so completely absurd to me that they become hilarious.
I asked my best friend I could slap him, to see what it was like. He gave me permission. Then I slapped him, apologized half a dozen times, made sure he wasn't hurt, and laughed about it. End of curiosity.
So, no ... I don't have violent fantasies or an interest in revenge. I've joked about it, but it's only ever been a joke ... not serious ... in any way. I laugh at violent jokes because they're so completely absurd to me that they become hilarious.