INFJ's And Finding Truth | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

INFJ's And Finding Truth

I didn't blame you. I wasn't angry. However, saying "its whatever you believe.." isn't Ni at all. and saying "come here" implies I'm not naturally here...?


All I'm saying is this: Infjs tend to talk a lot of mbti crap, and rarely can they hold their own when that fact is brought to their attention.

It was a joke. In response to your "And I didn't write this post in an angry tone, sorry if it comes across that way... But yea, enough is enough."

Because it was an apology and a non apology all in one. lol So I am joking. Keyboards need a humor button.

Mtbi crap? Don't know nothing about it so I can admit that I know zero other than my own research. I can only vouch for the fact that I am me. I don't care what type I am really because I am me.

They were asking infjs. Ask the same question about your type and see what kind of responses you get. It would be an interesting comparison.
 
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I think this ties more into Enneagram, ala type 5.
 
Yea, I'm not so sure this is much of an infj thing as much as something else not in mbti.
 
I see a species with extraordinary minds addicted to their emotions and the thoughts swirling around those emotions. I see a species steadily diminishing their abilities all in the pursuit of identifying with those emotions and thoughts.
I see the system of this species (the world) ever advancing in it's chaos.
I'm watching to see what happens next.
 
My truth? Our Consumerist-Capitalist society as it stands now is doomed. The 3-part force of Technological Unemployment, Climate Change, and Peak Oil leave no other posibility. We will either regress into a pre-indistrial state or we will advance into a post-capitalist, post-industrial, and post-scarcity society. We must as a society reject the soul-sucking vileness of Consumerism and the Cult of Competition and seek a cooperative society based on human and humane values and institutions.
 
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Alright, I'm about to sound like the guy who is obsessed with ufo's and conspiracies. I'm not that guy.. but anyway here it goes. Harsh dose of reality.

Truth. Technological advances are evil. Seemingly good, but in the long run terrible. For example, Cameras are being put in public areas where I live (chicago) and the cameras have the capability to zoom in and view whoever, whenever. If you were reading a book in a park, the camera's are so powerful they could zoom in and read the page.. I really think this goes against our consitutional rights but the government wants a watching eye at all times. I saw this coming when the red light cameras were being put up, and what I've been worried about is cameras and monitoring us in public (and private) places becoming a reality. The capability of what they could do in the next few years is scary. They are eventually going to be able to record and archive videos on every corner 24/7. And easily filter through it sort of like a "video search engine". But instead of searching, they could get alerted of key words and phrases. Like talking about the government. And easily be able to stop ANY revolt before one is able to even get a word out. That's absolute power. Absolute control. You could not stop it. If you tried, they would find out instantly.

...

Sometimes, I imagine a time where we could go back before any big technological advances. I think about the worries an every day person has, and I think technology is hurting human nature, and the enviorment. We are chopping down trees, polluting the world. If there was no technology, there would be about 4 worries. Not thousands we go through everday. Those worries would be food, water, shelter, and not get killed. As a society, we've replaced those 4 worries with about 100 million different worries and rules we have to abide by. I don't know, sometimes I question how much simpler life would be, and how much of human nature we are supressing by relying on technological advancements..
 
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Truth shouldn't be capitalized in the first post.


Also, this thread offends me. INFJs aren't even that psyhic. Either that, or the majority of the people I know who claim to be INFJs, aren't. Yes yes, that whole "we may not share the fact that we're psychic to other people" is a good argument, because I can't prove you wrong. But regardless, this whole infj pedestal crap is obnoxious.


I know that you're going to quote me and state you weren't trying to put infjs on the pedestal, but you did. And I'm going to vote for purposefully, vs. inadvertently. I think EVERY type is a truth seeker, in fact, I'd have to say Ne doms appear to be more truth seekers, while Ni doms are more meaning seekers.



- And I didn't write this post in an angry tone, sorry if it comes across that way... But yea, enough is enough.

The stereotype that infjs are psychic is a gross miscalculation. ESP or psychic ability runs in every type of personality; however it is further enhanced by sensitivity, intuition and empathy which INFJs are known to have. But not all infjs are empaths nor have a developed intuition and only select few could have a tendency to be psychic if they train it well.

What does being on a pedestal have to do with seeking truth? If you channel and seek your Truth in a completely different way than INFJs than more kudos to you. But where is the offense? Are you offended that you cannot easily reflect and find your Truths because you are too busy finding fault in others?
 
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You had me until "Humans may soon move out of their bodies and into computer systems. We could be able to simulate a mind and have another species intelligent enough to talk to made of transisters." Huh?? lol

The other stuff was brilliantly put. My best friend has often marveled at how I'm able to piece together bits of information and spin larger more complicated theories out of them especially since they usually wind up being true. I've never associated this with my personality type until now and it's fascinating to think of other people being able to do this.
 
for me truth comes down to whats real and whats not. i see these supposed theories and calculations in my mind as stories, how could they be anything else? they certainly aren't the truth, how could they be? every story has holes, every thought is a story, even this one. concepts thoughts and half truths built upon concepts, thoughts and half truths equate to little more than entertainment and probabilities.

if you look at whats real, and whats always been real, the only thing that is real you'd see whats right here right now is the only thing that can be. look at the past when did it happen? or the future - if it happens - when will it happen? in the now. everything has happened now because now is all that exists, time is just a measurement of change that exists in our mind, much like centimeters measure space and yet dont exist.

the truth is always there because its always now and can never be anything else, the question really comes down to would you rather see the truth over entertainment if it exposed the underlying misconceptions of every thought you've ever had, if it brought an end to the hopeful thinking that you've ever been anything else.
 
The stereotype that infjs are psychic is a gross miscalculation. ESP or psychic ability runs in every type of personality; however it is further enhanced by sensitivity, intuition and empathy which INFJs are known to have. But not all infjs are empaths nor have a developed intuition and only select few could have a tendency to be psychic if they train it well.

What does being on a pedestal have to do with seeking truth? If you channel and seek your Truth in a completely different way than INFJs than more kudos to you. But where is the offense? Are you offended that you cannot easily reflect and find your Truths because you are too busy finding fault in others?

Aren't jabs fun to do, when you're the defending party?

I must say so.

I am not offended, I am worried.

The issue with placing an INFJ on a pedastal, is various other types will forsake who they are, to become an INFJ. To claim the power and prestige that they come into so easily. Simply by merely being. They will become this Empath, "truth" seeker, psychic, and perhaps the life of the gods will float down and embrace them in away only they know best.

But down inside, there lies the same IXFP. The same INTJ, the same ISTP. Who just wishes to be accepted, and they lie there hoping someone will come down there and see who they are. But they cannot be, because they must maintain the persona of being a person.

It is not a secret INFJs are highly regarded as special, when types such as ISFJs who are, lets face it, damn common; are shown to be not worth as much. The jabs and the taunts aren't shown in the posts, nor in the blogs. But in the reputations, the inundation of psychobabble in an effort to provide refutation of all that is sensory awareness. One may simply post what they are, and get a rep stating "i'm impressed." Why? Not because they thought they were intelligent, but because they were "surprised" that a "sensor" could grasp a concept such as idk, brain chemistry.

The IXXX will then trade everything they are, to maintain the title of INFJ. To be accepted, are they accepted in their past community? Why sure. but they are common. They are known, and they are aware. The INFJ provides a mystery so many try to discover. No one cares about the SFJs, the NFPs, the STPs. Would most of us accept a type if they came out and stated that they weren't INFJ? Most likely. But said entity doesn't know that for sure.

If you're looking for a concise to the point answer to your contempt, I'm afraid you're looking at the wrong poster, but I will try my best.

I find it hideous that a type will be forced to look for truth and meaning, when perhaps all they desire is a lifestyle befitting them well. If an INFP sees that everyone regards INFJs are psychics, and INFPs are wimps, would they not change themselves to be an INFJ? I'd state yes.

I dislike INFJs being put on a pedestal because they don't deserve to be. I am aware I'm giving off major ENFP vibes, but I can't care less. An estj is just as valued as an INFJ, no matter the frequency, no matter the tenacity, no matter the lucidity of their thoughts; especially no matter the way they choose to live their life.

The next time I see an INFJ put on a pedestal, or an INFP, or ENFJ, or ENFP, INTJ, ENTJ etc etc. I would like to see an addendum of sincerity composed of succinct admission that they are no better than XSXJ, followed by a clear example.


And that is my problem with putting them on a pedestal.

[MENTION=884]solongotgon[/MENTION]


Side note: I don't find fault in others at all, I find potential, and with that potential to be amazing, I see the potential to be horrid. Its all on which side I decide to display. I'm not an enfp.
 
[MENTION=2575]Chessie[/MENTION] The example you give on your post for telling the truth (politics) shows to me that you consider the issue from the perspective of being open-minded to arguments.
I think your observation has to do more with that INFJs are sincere and that they want communication-interaction-reaffirmation and less that they seek the truth more than any other type.
INFJs are not happy with unexplained things. And they doubt a lot about their value system sometimes. They want to build a solid opinion so that it can be strong. A conversation can be very useful to them.
In addition, they are not afraid to admit they are wrong and they assume that other people can do the same. Other people have different motives though.
That's how I understand the whole issue.
 
You guys seem so... let's say... Convinced? And I think that's a big factor I am missing.
I think this is probably "Ne" thinking but.... When I "ponder" I am not actively looking for the truth, only alternative possibilities. To me the truth isn't half as important as other possible truths. To me the truth is a concept that one cannot grasp. (not unattainable per se). At least... I can never be sure I have the truth. To me there are too many possible alternatives to the truth. Even if I have the truth in me, in my opinion, I can never be sure if it's the truth. Therefore the truth becomes somewhat of an obsolete notion.

To me stating I have "The truth" only leads to deterioration of creativity. I think that.... if I were to convince myself that I KNOW things for sure I will become complacent and will stop adopting a mentality that is "expansive". I am afraid that I will start to only look for evidence to further support what I hold as the truth. I don't want to fall victim to that. I want to adopt a mentality that tries to defy the current situation. This has been mentioned before but.... I think that what most people regard as truth is merely relative. The truth is a concept that reaches beyond our realm of existence, does it not? If it doesn't.... it certainly is a possibility.

All in all~ I don't know and hopefully I never will.

:m200::m200::m200:
 
You guys seem so... let's say... Convinced? And I think that's a big factor I am missing.
I think this is probably "Ne" thinking but.... When I "ponder" I am not actively looking for the truth, only alternative possibilities. To me the truth isn't half as important as other possible truths. To me the truth is a concept that one cannot grasp. (not unattainable per se). At least... I can never be sure I have the truth. To me there are too many possible alternatives to the truth. Even if I have the truth in me, in my opinion, I can never be sure if it's the truth. Therefore the truth becomes somewhat of an obsolete notion.

To me stating I have "The truth" only leads to deterioration of creativity. I think that.... if I were to convince myself that I KNOW things for sure I will become complacent and will stop adopting a mentality that is "expansive". I am afraid that I will start to only look for evidence to further support what I hold as the truth. I don't want to fall victim to that. I want to adopt a mentality that tries to defy the current situation. This has been mentioned before but.... I think that what most people regard as truth is merely relative. The truth is a concept that reaches beyond our realm of existence, does it not? If it doesn't.... it certainly is a possibility.

All in all~ I don't know and hopefully I never will.

:m200::m200::m200:

^^This kind of hurt my brain...

I have a good idea of how the future will manifest. I rarely speak of it, because whenever I occasionally have, what I have had to say, really bothered those who were listening. All I can say, is that it is extremely different to the life that we are mainly familiar with. The systems of government, religion, geography and with the evolution of how we compute/process/analyze our information will naturally change along with it. We will adapt, we have already started...

The way I have sensed things to be, goes in two ways. One is the direction of A.I. where humans will explore further "away" from the human existence, and the other direction will be in the spiritual direction. This will be where we will be expanding our intuitive birthright that many of us (type aside), aren't very aware of.

Edit: All I know, is that I trust my intuition above all else. It's usually right, so I guess it is how I base my sense of what is the truth.
 
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There's truth and there's facts.

Fact: people are starving in Africa

but why?

that's where your opinion on what the truth is comes into play.
 
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The truth is discoverable. So are lies. The question is whether one wishes to discover the truth and expose the lies. The INFJ's in my life strive for the truth and are deeply offended by those who sow falsehood.
 
The next time I see an INFJ put on a pedestal, or an INFP, or ENFJ, or ENFP, INTJ, ENTJ etc etc. I would like to see an addendum of sincerity composed of succinct admission that they are no better than XSXJ, followed by a clear example.

is it not possible for one type to be better?
 
is it not possible for one type to be better?

Nope. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Some people's weaknesses are others' strengths. It's not about being better than anyone, it's about coexisting as a people peacefully.

Plus, it is not quite so black and white with types. They're technically preferences which means mbti is more of a general personality guideline rather than a fact of life. Just because someone prefers one way does not mean they're a better.
 
is it not possible for one type to be better?

If you mean just 'more valuable' then probably not. If you mean does one type or another have a strength of weakness which outshines the other types then absolutely. I would not jump on board with an ESFP accountant or an INFJ hedge fund manager. I wouldn't be as quick to trust an INTJ psychologist or an ESTJ interior decorator. Certainly, they may be hugely competent but there are natural proclivities. Keep in mind though that these aren't absolutes.

Granted, I have...issues...with ESTJ's...but that's just me.

I think this also applies to certain ways of thinking.
 
I wouldn't be as quick to trust an INTJ psychologist

I only know of one INTJ. He would make a terrible, terrible psychologist. I definitely agree with this.