INFJ, The Manipulator? | INFJ Forum

INFJ, The Manipulator?

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by Ortorin, Jun 14, 2009.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 4 users.
More threads by Ortorin
  1. Ortorin

    Ortorin Community Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ENTP
    Now I don't know if this is just me or not, so I'm asking you.

    I have been told by some that I am a manipulator. I can see how people feel about things down almost to their core, and with this knowledge, I instictivly act in a way to get the reaction I want out of people.

    I am a very big people watcher, allways learning the habit and feeling of people around me; how they react to diffrent situations and ideas, and the ilk. It seems that this just naturaly set me up to manipulate them into do, or feeling the way I want them to, even though that isn't how I view what I do.

    Does anyone else feel like this is like them, or has been told this by others?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Threads:
    762
    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2 sx/so/sp
    I am never told this by others because people do not see me do this, ever. I don't know why but they don't. I have to be the one who tells them.

    I am the exact same way though. The thing is though I never do this with malitious intent or to just get a rise out of people. It is just another tool in my aresonol to learn more about people and dig deeper.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #2 IndigoSensor, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  3. Julia

    Julia Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Threads:
    24
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    There is a difference between being an effective communicator and a manipulator. Some people can be both.

    Manipulation is getting people to act without their full consent. This is done by withholding information, lying, attacking vulnerabilities, using flattery, using cohesion or threat, emotional blackmail, etc. I can usually figure out when someone is doing this, but it goes against my grain to do it.
     
  4. OP
    Ortorin

    Ortorin Community Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ENTP
    I never mean to manipulate people (unless for a very good reason), it's just happens, compleatly natuarly for me.

    I look back at diffrent events, and I can see how I changed them to my favor with pre-knowledge of the person I'm dealing with, though at the time, I never relized I was doing it.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. overainbows

    overainbows Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    Scary. lol

    But that's the way it is when you're good at something, you end up using it on your favour without perceiving it, you use the tools you have. The problem is what Julia said.

    Pesonally, I find people who have good interpersonal skills (like ESFP's, for example) very scary. I don't really like it and I end up thinking this kind of people are just gathering information and will use it manipulate me... Another thing I perceive F's do a lot, is to say/do things just to see what's your reaction and kind of test you. I hate it and I feel 'betrayed' and when I perceive it, it's over for me.

    You F's take a good advantage on it, and whether the intention is good or not, when you do it you are being manipulative. I think a lot of it comes from that 'mania' you F's have to hide things, many F's I know often don't say what they think, they prefer to silence, they're never direct when they want to ask something, for whatever reasons, and then they have to use this skills to get what they want from people. I don't think it's fair, I always feel like they're not being true, even though sometimes I see they don't mean anything bad, feels like they're being false and manipulative.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #5 overainbows, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  6. dylan

    dylan Bearded Dancing King

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    xNFP
    I am capable of doing this kind of thing, in a truly manipulative sense, as Julia said. I do it on occasion, but usually it rubs me the wrong way. It just feels too dishonest and, well, manipulative. If I do decide to manipulate a situation, I usually do it when the outcome is going to benefit other people as well as myself.

    ETA: After reading Zero Angel's post below, I'd just like to clarify that when I said I can do this "in a truly manipulative sense, as Julia said," I meant more the getting someone to "act without their full consent," or as ZA put it, getting someone "to do something that they would not otherwise do of their own volition." I don't use the tactics Julia mentioned, I just see how people react in certain ways to certain things, and exploit that knowledge to "herd" them into the outcome I'm looking for.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #6 dylan, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  7. Zero Angel

    Zero Angel Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Threads:
    19
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    Possibly 4w5
    I disagree. To me, manipulating someone is getting them to do something that they would not otherwise do of their own volition. There are many subtle ways to get someone to do what you want them to do, you just have to know what is important to them and what affects them.

    All types of manipulation appeal to or otherwise affect emotions. The tactics you list are the more devious and overt ways of manipulating someones emotions in order to get them to do what you want -- they are effective in that they are powerful -- but people who constantly manipulate others in this way ultimately lose them because of the large amount of negative emotional reactions they evoke. There are more subtle ways of getting someone to do what you want, and strangely enough you see this kind of thing happen ALL the time. Just look read any type of book which involves relating to people such as 'how to win friends and influence people' or go to a Dale Carnegie course or read any book about a related subject -- all of these teach you how to appeal to another person emotional side. Almost everyone manipulates everyone else in some small way or another.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #7 Zero Angel, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  8. Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,276
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,592
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    Are you female? You're more likely to get called manipulative if you're female than if you're male.

    I've never been called manipulative. I don't think that I manipulate people either.
     
  9. Onyrica

    Onyrica Community Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I think it's a skill that we all have (as INFJ's) and that we all use when we really need it, sometimes willingly and sometimes without even noticing.

    As some have said before me, when I do this, I don't do it for my own benefit, but for the 'greater good' - if you want to see it like that. Whenever I see something out of place, someone being utterly wrong about something or a sittuation taking a wrong turn, this instinct activates naturally in me. I don't sit and think "right, time to start manipulating", but rather my mind see's those things that other people don't and in its willingness to help it tries to channel the 'wrongness' into 'rightness'.

    The thing is that I don't have a very 'strong' presence. As neither do most INFJ's, I assume. We don't have it because we simply can't or don't want to.
    I'm a moderate introvert who has a hard time speaking loudly and being assertive beyond a point. When I'm in University, with my colleagues, I normally find myself in the sideline of a group, talking about a team project or theory point which I have a strong opinion of. My colleagues will usually go on about it based on their own opinions, shouting over each other to make the strongest point, while I sit there, unable to do this. When they reach a conclusion that's wrong or shows to be inneficient, I'll try having a say, but often they're so convinced that they're right, and that the 'quiet girl who spends more time in limbo than on earth' can't possibly understand what they're talking about, that they totally skip what I said. This is, obviously, very frustrating and the reason I hate team work.

    What happens then is that the part of me that knows they're utterly wrong about something, and that we're all going to fall through their stupid mistake of refusing to acknowledge what I said, kicks in with its tools. I don't have a strong presence, but I do have a very strong sense of perfection for things; I know I can do it and I can do it right. So, without even realizing, my mind works it out so that subtly, quietly, I eventually correct these attitudes and mistakes that everyone refused to realize in the first place.

    And the truth is that when it comes down to it, and without praising myself here, things do come out right. I take no credit (because hilariously enough, people think they came up with the good ideas after all xD) and the project comes out sleek and smooth.

    So in all, what I mean to say is that this so called 'manipulation' isn't to be followed literally as such. We don't 'manipulate' - we just try to help when the cause is right and people have made it wrong. We lack in many things, like the ability to express ourselves, to perhaps be strongly assertive, etc, so we have to make up somehow by using the greatest thing we have, which is our intuition and our need to help people and the better cause with it.

    I've said. :m123:

    (Gods, my posts keep getting longer and longer...)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Sithious

    Sithious Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    1,663
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Hmm, I'm quite the opposite. Well, I'm rather quiet, but in team work I usually get my will. If I have a good idea, I see to it that it comes through, and that I get credit for it.

    I do manipulate to some extent to get my ideas through, usually by putting doubt in the others team members about their ideas, but oh well.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Threads:
    33
    Messages:
    2,142
    Likes Received:
    460
    Trophy Points:
    215
    MBTI:
    Hey Ho
    Enneagram:
    flibble
    I wouldn't say this is manipulation. It's influencing. You're simply using your strengths to guide people in a certain direction, which is presumably positive, if you're being to to your nature.

    Manipulation, to my mind would bewhen people use forms of hypnosis, such as NLP, to prey on fears and weaknesses they perceive in others in order to win a situation for themselves.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    dylan likes this.
  12. sedna

    sedna Community Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    I'm more inclined to step back and notice the connections between people and file it away for future reference. I tend to see these connections filmicly, so basically I'm plotting to use the absurdities unfolding before me for some screenplay or film or something. I'm not one to interject for the purpose of manipulating someone to get what I want. I figure if the person doesn't want to give me what I want, so be it.

    Though, ESFJs & ESFPs seem more manipulative to me, through phishing, guilt-tripping, passive-aggression, and sugary-sweetness (as the knife plunges into your back.)
     
  13. Zero Angel

    Zero Angel Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Threads:
    19
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    Possibly 4w5
    I agree. I find these types to be quite manipulative in that way.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Threads:
    382
    Messages:
    11,688
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Trophy Points:
    881
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    Hmm.

    I've been called bossy before, but not manipulative. I think the term "manipulation" is the sticking point as others have said, since the word itself has negative connotations. I would say that INFJs are masters at looking at the whole picture and determining the best answer to satisfy the big picture question while caring about everyone's greater good, but that's all. I can't see myself using this for evil intent. An INTJ might see the whole picture and make a decision without caring (i.e., the best answer and best result, damn the consequences), but I'd hate to do it as an INFJ because I'd have to sacrifice my principles; I'd have to stop caring about others and how others were feeling.

    People with strong strategic minds can manipulate behind the scenes without others knowing about it (NT trait). Others can try and sell you something and explain why something is a great deal, and try to use your circumstances against you. But can an NF truly be called manipulative? That's a good question. I think it'd have to be an unhealthy INFJ, or someone who misunderstands the intent of the INFJ.
     
    #14 arbygil, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  15. efromm

    efromm Hiding In My Shell...
    Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    3,408
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,944
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    InFj
    We are councilors after all we do see patterns in people and life. I think we are just more aware and we act more aware at times. We can see things before they happen at times. I can use my influence at times to get what I want or I can use it to help others get where they are going. It's a gift use it responsibly and no one will think you have bad intentions.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. sedna

    sedna Community Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    This may be true. Enneagramically speaking, 4s(INFJ/INFPs) become more like 2s(ESFJ/ESFPs) when unhealthy. There have been times I've been whiny and depressed causing others to give me what I wanted. Although, I don't think I consciously manipulated them at the time. But they might have felt that way.
     
  17. OP
    Ortorin

    Ortorin Community Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ENTP
    The more I think on it, the more it seems to me that it is less of manipulation, and more of a deviation from my core persona. I learned that being nice all the time doesn't get you wwhat you want with everyone. Maybe it's just a diffrent side of me, more of an extrovert side, that takes over for the people you can't "kill with kindness", and my natural "good doer" side just sees it as being bad and manipulative?

    Sometimes, it's just really hard for me to tell what part of my personality is working when, makes me feel increadably Bi-Polar.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Grey Wolf

    Grey Wolf Airborne all the way!

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Threads:
    90
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    622
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    no idea
    this is one of things i realised about myself a long time ago. I can get anyone to do almost anything I want though I usually dont do that. My friends have seen that too. They know me to be able to get people to talk even though they do not wish to. I just got a friend to show me her newly cut hair that she didnt want anyone to see :D

    but I dont use it to get people to buy me stuff or give me money or any of this sort of thing. My honour wouldnt allow me to do so anyway. I probably will die if I did such a thing without good reason to do so.

    BUT. the only time I cant seem to use this skill to get to know people better or to help them sort out their issues by acknowledging their problem or this sort of thing is when the other party is the person i like at that point in time. :m100:

    very very annoying at that time. But other than the person I seem to be able to use it on whoever else. Especially since I've started studying psychology I realised that I could actually really get people to do things they would not do otherwise :/

    with great power comes great responsibility i suppose
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. overainbows

    overainbows Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    Yeah. I have some trauma with them and also with ISFx and it makes me step back with most F's because of some similarities that trigger my mind to what this types tend to do, specially concerning the 'sugary-sweetness (as the knife plunges into your back.)', though I know (or want to believe so) not all F's are like this.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #19 overainbows, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  20. youngster

    youngster Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    i have manipulated before
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
Loading...

Share This Page