INFJ Males
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Being masculine and being a real man are two different things to me, but that is a matter of definition of words I guess. Being a real man is ultimately about not being afraid of the truth, and that's a whole lot more important than anything else. (A woman can equally be a real man by that definition.)
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The only "masculine" thing about me is that I like watching things being destroyed.
But I hate:
-Sports
-Hunting/Fishing/Outdoor Recreation, except hiking, and other things that don't involve animals
-Cars
-Working Out
-Metal that is metal for the sake of being metal. I can appreciate metal that has thought put into it.
-Talking about any of the above
And I'm gay as well, so. Yeah.
But I hate:
-Sports
-Hunting/Fishing/Outdoor Recreation, except hiking, and other things that don't involve animals
-Cars
-Working Out
-Metal that is metal for the sake of being metal. I can appreciate metal that has thought put into it.
-Talking about any of the above
And I'm gay as well, so. Yeah.
From VH: We're one of the rarest creatures in the human race. Not only are INFJ males the rarest type, but it is my experience that a lot of us a gay, possibly a majority. Many of us have a strong feminine side, whether straight, gay, or otherwise.
So, I thought I'd ask how you fellow INFJ males manifest your masculinity?
Great thread VH! Yes, it is Uber difficult being an INFJ male, more so than a female since our qualities and strenghts (intuitive, empathic, introverted, non-violent, creative) are associated much more with females. We are almost always assumed to be gay. I dealt with this a lot. Society is constantly trying to change us to the idea of what a man "Should Be". That's a load of crap. The world would be a better place if we were say 15% of the pop. instead of .5%. But I digrees. How do I manifest my masculinity?
Well, one of the first things I noticed was the lack of sports fans on this site. My sports thread died a quick death. For reasons I am still not sure of, I am a huge sports fan. I've often wondered why, as I realize it totally goes against my personality. I like football, baseball, and basketball. I even watch some hockey at times. I never played any of these other than a little pickup basketball.
I can't really think of a lot of other things I do that would be considered "masculine' by societies standards. I like to drive fast, but am not crazy deep into cars. I am VERY non-mechanical. I like to be outdoors with nature, but am not into outdoor sports. Don't like killing things. I don't care to hang out at th bar with "The Boys", although I can go and enjoy myself with a group of my friends.
Some things I think a "Real Man" should be or do include: being able to raise and care for children, being able to show emotion (yeah I can cry watching an emotional movie) and being empathic, being creative and proud of it, being confidant and proud of whatever you are. Well, maybe that last one does fall under societies definition. I am all of these things, and I feel they are things a man should be. Society be damned!
I think the boundries between what is considered feminine and masculine are slowly fading, and that's not all bad. I do think there should be some divisions between the sexes, but that's one for another thread.
So, I thought I'd ask how you fellow INFJ males manifest your masculinity?
Great thread VH! Yes, it is Uber difficult being an INFJ male, more so than a female since our qualities and strenghts (intuitive, empathic, introverted, non-violent, creative) are associated much more with females. We are almost always assumed to be gay. I dealt with this a lot. Society is constantly trying to change us to the idea of what a man "Should Be". That's a load of crap. The world would be a better place if we were say 15% of the pop. instead of .5%. But I digrees. How do I manifest my masculinity?
Well, one of the first things I noticed was the lack of sports fans on this site. My sports thread died a quick death. For reasons I am still not sure of, I am a huge sports fan. I've often wondered why, as I realize it totally goes against my personality. I like football, baseball, and basketball. I even watch some hockey at times. I never played any of these other than a little pickup basketball.
I can't really think of a lot of other things I do that would be considered "masculine' by societies standards. I like to drive fast, but am not crazy deep into cars. I am VERY non-mechanical. I like to be outdoors with nature, but am not into outdoor sports. Don't like killing things. I don't care to hang out at th bar with "The Boys", although I can go and enjoy myself with a group of my friends.
Some things I think a "Real Man" should be or do include: being able to raise and care for children, being able to show emotion (yeah I can cry watching an emotional movie) and being empathic, being creative and proud of it, being confidant and proud of whatever you are. Well, maybe that last one does fall under societies definition. I am all of these things, and I feel they are things a man should be. Society be damned!
I think the boundries between what is considered feminine and masculine are slowly fading, and that's not all bad. I do think there should be some divisions between the sexes, but that's one for another thread.
I dated an INFJ guy once, and I have to say that he was very masculine, even though at times he was more emotional than me. But I agree that the standard definition of masculinity is wrong. What makes a man to me is his ability to go through life with confidence and to enjoy it for what it is. And for him to realize that the little things are important. It all comes down to perception, really.
All of this, exactly. Haven't tried target shooting, but I'm a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, with a strong interest in other martial arts. In gaming, I'm a fan completely of heroic, "justified" violence (though I've still at points been oddly empathetic for enemies, no matter how generic), and am completely able to sit down for hours and play a nice, more casual game and get just as much enjoyment out of it. Although I'm not a sports-type by any means, I do enjoy hiking a bit, or exploring and taking in the outdoors in general. Used to be a hockey fan as well, but that's dwindled quite a bit.
Again, a spot on situation. The primary reason I got into Tae Kwon Do in the first place was as a location for physical release and conditioning, over any overt form of violence. Even when sparring, where I was doing great, I held a lot of force back just before impact since I didn't see the point in hurting anyone. That said, while I'll avoid any personal violence as well as I can, and only defend myself and try to scare anyone off that may break that, I'm more than willing to step in if a friend is threatened. Maybe it's just the romantic in me wanting to play the hero when I see a friend in trouble, but moreso I just want to end any conflict with as little damage as possible.
That said, if it went past threatening a friend's safety, and they were actually hurt, I can't say I'd be in a state of mind to hold back quite as much. That's one of my trigger points to really set me off.
[EDIT]: Oh snap, hadn't even thought about that... potentially 0.1-0.2% for heterosexual males? Thank goodness for places like this to bring all genders and orientations together then, wow.
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Is it just me or does Richard Simmons look more and more like a crazy homeless person every year?
My son and my brother-in-law (married to my ENTP sister) are both INFJ's. IMO, they are both masculine, at least as I perceive it. I think that male INFJ's have a lot of power. First, they are male, so they have the putative head-start that confers in society. Second, they have an unbelievable potential power over people given their insight and talent for understanding and perceiving emotion. Such a power, though also available to women INFJ's (like my wife--I'm surrounded by INFJ's!) would allow a male INFJ to act in ways that could be perceived as extremely masculine according to prevailing cultural norms.
I always read books to my kids when they were young. That's one of the necessary functions of a good parent. It's very important for many reasons. I still retain an eidetic memory of many Dr. Seuss books. "One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish..." etc.
Typically you are assumed to be gay, as I was, in middle school and high school where having a girlfriend is pretty much the main point of school for most people; not necessarily because you are gay. I don't think it is necessarily harder being an INFJ male than any other type, everyone goes through things, and girls love ENFP men. Let's not cry over split milk.
I would also disagree with sports being antithetical to your type. Why would that be true? I would assume that your argument is steming from Fe. Sports is all about a love for the sport you're playing and also testing your skill and will against another opponent, nothing particularly testing of your Fe.
How do you manifest your masculinity? Honestly, I don't really know what to tell you, being confident and being abled will essentially net you everything you need as a man.
And creativity is associated with women?.....ok.
Edit: I just read a site about masculinity because of this topic, and I believe this quote sums it up pretty nicely. " STRONG men, men that are strong in character and believe in themselves and their ideals, men that are leaders and don’t look to others for guidance or validation." That has nothing to do with being aggressive and all that other 'manly' stuff. If that was true, then women are by far the more intelligent sex.
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People, in general, have a hard time understanding each other. I think INFJs tend to think that we are so odd because of that, pretty much. We'd like to think we understand people much better than the typical S and all (But the validity of that subject , I'm not sure) Society has a lot of expectations on people, are you going to fall this one as well? Society expects me to be largely violent and ignorant, yet I like to think that I'm not. Sports being an S or a N thing? I'm not quite sold either, I think it's more background or something else I suppose, I know some S's who hate and detest sports.
(I'm not trying to come off as abrasive btw)
I don't perceive masculinity as liking cars or sports. Half of it is the protector/provider instinct, y'know? And I think INFJs can be really strong there, especially the males.
Although I have to say, sometimes even I feel more masculine than some of the male INFJs :B
Although I have to say, sometimes even I feel more masculine than some of the male INFJs :B
I've had a great time living as an INFJ male (in my mid-50s now). I find the complexity highly entertaining and a very good use of a life. I have a friend who says I am the only person she knows who is completely centered and balanced within my own self (of course, she does not know the complex web of influences and inspirations I draw upon). Another lady friend once commented that I was not afraid of anything. I don't know what she meant...I'm just out here doin' my thing!
I never studied typology so never knew what an INFJ was, or was not, supposed to do/be. I just followed my passions and inner truth...this has brought me my share of pain but, even moreso, a sense of peace about where I have been and where I am going.
No need for INFJ guys to hang back in the shadows...we have too much to offer this world!!
I never studied typology so never knew what an INFJ was, or was not, supposed to do/be. I just followed my passions and inner truth...this has brought me my share of pain but, even moreso, a sense of peace about where I have been and where I am going.
No need for INFJ guys to hang back in the shadows...we have too much to offer this world!!
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If I could some up my ideal of masculinity it is with this picture:
That being depicted, let me clarify. If I were to describe masculinity it would specifically be that unique drive among men to actively pursue the outcropping of glory, honor, virtue, or otherwise transcendent ideas and principles which we hold (the feminine being to enforce or define such things and the stretch of their boundaries).
So then, I'd say I show off my masculinity in the ways I am active and pursuant of my ideals. I do things like work out, participate in sports, work on things with my hands, etc. because they are required of me by what I believe/think and I don't do some of those things because they are prohibited or not expressive of such. For example, I love keeping track of college sports, but I hate professional leagues. In college athletics there is a sense of "winning the glory" of one's school and tradition in a competition of wits and strength (wits being involved in sports is a discussion for another day). However, something dies when the members are competing for their own financial or self-glorifying benefit that just alienates me from professional sports. When I compete it is to seek that glory not for me, but for some tradition or group for which I wish to contribute to.
Yeah, I do enjoy the other "manly" things our society deems "masculine" but only within the confines of the aforementioned. I don't like to do them for their own sake (I don't like to do anything for its own sake for that matter). So if I have to say one thing, it is that society's defining of the masculine is really a sign of the femininity of civilization. I tend to agree with the romantics that the masculine is wild and akin to the beasts of nature while the feminine is a refinement of nature into the civilized. Together, they make a beautiful thing, but alone they are still a sight to behold. So, I guess, until I find the woman who'll tame me, I'll keep on being that active beast pursuant of the necessary.
That being depicted, let me clarify. If I were to describe masculinity it would specifically be that unique drive among men to actively pursue the outcropping of glory, honor, virtue, or otherwise transcendent ideas and principles which we hold (the feminine being to enforce or define such things and the stretch of their boundaries).
So then, I'd say I show off my masculinity in the ways I am active and pursuant of my ideals. I do things like work out, participate in sports, work on things with my hands, etc. because they are required of me by what I believe/think and I don't do some of those things because they are prohibited or not expressive of such. For example, I love keeping track of college sports, but I hate professional leagues. In college athletics there is a sense of "winning the glory" of one's school and tradition in a competition of wits and strength (wits being involved in sports is a discussion for another day). However, something dies when the members are competing for their own financial or self-glorifying benefit that just alienates me from professional sports. When I compete it is to seek that glory not for me, but for some tradition or group for which I wish to contribute to.
Yeah, I do enjoy the other "manly" things our society deems "masculine" but only within the confines of the aforementioned. I don't like to do them for their own sake (I don't like to do anything for its own sake for that matter). So if I have to say one thing, it is that society's defining of the masculine is really a sign of the femininity of civilization. I tend to agree with the romantics that the masculine is wild and akin to the beasts of nature while the feminine is a refinement of nature into the civilized. Together, they make a beautiful thing, but alone they are still a sight to behold. So, I guess, until I find the woman who'll tame me, I'll keep on being that active beast pursuant of the necessary.