How many more children need to die before the USA can have gun control? | Page 5 | INFJ Forum

How many more children need to die before the USA can have gun control?

I'm not sure why this narrative is going around now, but it seems to me like he boarded himself up in one room and they just decided to react as though it were a hostage situation and/or that everyone inside was immediately presumed dead. So the appropriate action would be to play a waiting game.

What do I know though. Half of me feels angry about it too. Just bust in there guns blazing immediately.
Apparently they had received multiple calls from children inside, who told of the shots and dead. Granted the first was half an hour later, and the one where she mentioned dead victims being forty minutes after he entered, but why that wasn't immediately relayed to the police and for them to immediately act baffles me
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...tudent-called-911-multiple-shooting-rcna30898
 
I need to see proper timelines of all these things

YouTube is your friend because I know you can filter sources and discern. I know CNN broadcast some official reading an itemized timeline earlier today, but I couldn’t pay full attention as I was getting ready to go to a doctor’s appointment.

Cheers,
Ian
 
YouTube is your friend because I know you can filter sources and discern. I know CNN broadcast some official reading an itemized timeline earlier today, but I couldn’t pay full attention as I was getting ready to go to a doctor’s appointment.

Cheers,
Ian

What I mean to say is, I'm lazy.
I want an official timeline of everything, from a reputable source.
 
When we talk about mental health, it is important not to use it as an excuse. The vast majority of people with mental health issues do not commit such crimes, and most of the shooters do not belong to a demographic that has the least access to mental healthcare. (Black women traditionally have the least access to mental healthcare.) The shooters do, however, belong to a demographic that has traditionally been told they can have the life they want, or a good life, easier life, and our country increasingly fails to provide opportunities, connection, community, support, avenues for improvement, etc for these young people. This makes these young men susceptible to being radicalized because they will turn to people who seem sympathetic on the surface, and will look for reasons for this cultural (and government) failure.

Despair is suffering without hope and many young people do not have hope. We all suffer according to our own personal limits. (For example, someone who has it easier doesn't fail to suffer because others have a bigger struggle. It's all relative.) On top of this, most young people feel angst, anger, high emotions, and a sense that they are different and don't belong.

I think the reason this perspective is passable is because mental illness is being WAY over diagnosed to the point where people who have normal situational depression after a breakup or loved one dying are pathologizing normal human emotions.

If you subtract these mild "mental illness" diagnoses from the mixture which is probably like 60% of people who do not actually have a mental illness, the people remaining are very, very, very sick.

I do not think mental illness is being used as an excuse it is actually a very legitimate reason.

Antecdotally, I have a friend with diagnosed schizophrenia who could definitely hurt another person and I wouldn't hold him accountable for it like I would hold a mentally sound person. He genuinely believes people who are possessed with demons are following him and trying to kill him. He's had times where he thinks other people are just subconscious manifestations of his own mind, and therefore talks to other people like he is talking to himself. He has jumped off roofs thinking he can fly during psychotic episodes.

I don't think we can fairly hold mentally ill people responsible for their actions taken. They are a danger to themselves and others.

The only reason there is even confusion about this is that mental illness has been so normalized that everybody and their grandma has social anxiety and depression.... The type of mental illness that results in severe violence to others usually has psychotic elements like bipolar and schizophrenia and it's no joke. My friend couldn't control himself even if he wanted to. He's currently running around the country trying to escape his father who is trying to institutionalize him for his and other people's own safety, and my friend is focused on trying to get assisted suicide because he no longer wants to live. If you understand that this is what mentally ill is and you still don't think that is a legitimate excuse for why somebody would act in extremely violent and harmful ways I don't know what else to say?? If I had serious delusions, I would act to protect myself, too. And might harm innocent people in the process of my own psychosis. And there is no way to hold a psychotic person responsible for their actions because they are literally not living in reality.


Edit:

Wanted to add this info I found demonstrating that though I may have strong feelings firsthand about witnessing psychosis Asa is being factually accurate that only a small percent of shooters are suffering psychosis during the act:

"
Mass shootings are often blamed on serious mental illness. This study assesses the role of psychosis in contributing to mass shootings along a continuum. The role of psychosis is compared with other motivations for mass shootings including employment issues, interpersonal conflict, relationship issues, hate, and fame-seeking.

Perpetrators motivated by psychosis are also compared with other perpetrators on several well-established risk factors for violence. It is hypothesized that a mental health history is common among mass shooters, but symptoms of psychosis only directly motivate mass shootings for a minority of cases. A dataset of 172 mass shooters was created, coded on 166 life history variables using publicly available data. The entire dataset and codebook are publicly available.

The findings show that symptoms of psychosis played no role in 69% of cases, but psychosis may have played a minor role in 11% of cases, a moderate role in 9% of cases, and a major role in 11% of cases. Perpetrators motivated by psychosis were similar to mass shooters with other motivations in terms of demographics and common risk factors for violence. The role of serious mental illness in mass shootings is complex. The data indicate that access to mental health care may help prevent mass shootings in a minority of cases, but this is far from the only solution to mass shootings.
(PsycInfo Database Record (c) 2021 APA, all rights reserved)"
 
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Agreed on that. Which is why it confused me. It seems out of character. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Confused,
Ian
Not really. I have no respect for Obama since he threatened U.K. would be at the “back of the queue” if we left the EU. Just another entitled elite using race to help his career. Did he do much about US poverty among blacks while he was in power? No, he was just like the rest imo
The EU is an elite institution set up by many former nazis to finish the Nazi dream of a United Europe run by Germany.
 
Over diagnosis of many conditions is highly likely when there are big commercial interests who gain from doing so, and these commercial interests run through the whole industry like ivy through a trellis. This is why people are well advised to do their own research before trusting everything a doctor tells them.
 

This is so on the nose. The truth laid bare. Follow the money. The machine needs bodies. Soften them through relentless conditioning via propaganda. Harden them by discounting anything not aligned. Desensitize by regular exposure to horror. Dominator culture. Acquisition of wealth by being the Merchant of Death. Use feel-good symbols to hide that which would disgust any reasonable individual. Eye on the goal. Forever War.

Bite Your Lip,
Ian
 
This, I think, may be helpful to the discussion: https://massshootingtracker.site/ Masshooting tracker - which can be helpful for keeping track of the number of incidences of US mass shootings and the space of time between them.

273
U.S. mass shootings in 2022
4655
mass shootings since 1/1/2013
0
days since last mass shooting

It's very sad.
My opinion on gun control doesn't matter. But I am an American, and believe strongly in the Second Amendment. I also think the subject gets tricky when comparing the US to other countries, because, the US is a very large country and very culturally different from other countries. I do support the availability for someone to responsibly own and use military style weapons to protect private property. If you have a secured property out in the middle of nowhere with high value assets, you certainly want to protect your privacy and those assets. I don't think it should be easy, though, for people, especially mentally disturbed youth, to buy military style weapons on their own. It's a tricky subject, but those are my thoughts...
 
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This, I think, may be helpful to the discussion: https://massshootingtracker.site/ Masshooting tracker - which can be helpful for keeping track of the number of incidences of US mass shootings and the space of time between them.



It's very sad.
My opinion on gun control doesn't matter. But I am an American, and believe strongly in the Second Amendment. I also think the subject gets tricky when comparing the US to other countries, because, the US is a very large country and very culturally different from other countries. I do support the availability for someone to responsibly own and use military style weapons to protect private property. If you have a secured property out in the middle of nowhere with high value assets, you certainly want to protect your privacy and those assets. I don't think it should be easy, though, for people, especially mentally disturbed youth, to buy military style weapons on their own. It's a tricky subject, but those are my thoughts...

Very VERY well done post - good you! The easy part: "don't think it should be easy", if the "system" does its job (they don't) not only would it not be easy it would be IMPOSSIBLE. Ajudged mentally ill people can not buy firearms. "On their own", if they can't buy them by themselves (and they can't) someone helping them doesn't either help the situation AND is already illegal.
I won't go too far with this because it is not my intent to blow up the list however, some questions one could ask if one were so inclined. Most if not all of the school shooters were at the very least known to local law enforcement and most again if not all were known to the FBI, I am not aware of a case yet that was a completely abstract "surprise" situation.

One could also ask: how does an 18 year old working at McDonalds 8 hours a week (he could be working 60 hours and still not be able to afford this), living with his grandparents (who are also broke) obtain a $70,000+ truck, 2 expensive (depending on options probably over $2,000 EACH) AR 15's (some of the best made); magazines and ammo, at something near (above or below) $1.00 a round? Further why did law enforcement sit idly by for an hour give or take to let him kill children? Just for perspective I am OLD and yet have the training (and paperwork to establish as much) to get into the building and take out a shooter, as well as the gear to pull it off (I AM AN OLD *CIVILIAN*). That would be a rather simple operation for even just two people. One trained S.O. (special operator) could do it easily and one off duty border agent without panels (flash bangs, or smoke) DID do it. By dumb happenstance the CIA uses the Daniel Defense AR 15 that the Uvalde shooter had on part time McDonalds wages.
One could also ponder why Sandy Hook was bulldozed and why it was quickly suggested that Uvlade be bulldozed?

This isn't even remotely as it is being made to appear.
 
Our own government should look at themselves before they touch these gun rights. How did they treat the Native American Indians?

How did they treat the Confederacy? How do the blacks treat the Confederacy?

Nobody will invade the USA, if for nothing other than our freedom to bear arms.

Teach your children well, your Fathers' hell will slowly go by.

We still live in America. The top ten causes of death in the world? Do something about that.
 
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I think that was meant to be more than what it seemed.



I often wonder if some of these shootings are financed by people wanting gun control. That would mean they were the killers. Blame it all on guns, which cannot kill without someone pulling the trigger in most instances. Something sounds amiss to me.
 
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