The right to die? | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Featured The right to die?

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Skarekrow, Feb 8, 2020.

Share This Page

?
  1. It is against my morals/beliefs and no one should have such a say.

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  2. It's fine for others, not for me.

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  3. It would be something I would consider for myself.

    10 vote(s)
    40.0%
  4. I support the right to die with dignity, but mental illnesses should not be considered.

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. I support the right to die if said person fits appropriate criteria no matter the primary reason.

    16 vote(s)
    64.0%
  6. I don't want to think about it...

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 10 users.
More threads by Skarekrow
  1. BritNi

    BritNi Perceptive Optimist

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2019
    Threads:
    19
    Messages:
    5,774
    Featured Threads:
    15
    Likes Received:
    52,110
    Trophy Points:
    3,072
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    2w1
    Another note I want to add: I don't think that the practice should be forced upon all doctors. Like, if a doctor disagrees with it and doesn't want to assist someone with suicide, then he or she should not be forced to. That should be their choice too.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    17,980
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    32,371
    Trophy Points:
    1,921
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    Absolutely.
    One of the hardest surgeries I have ever been a part of was someone who has a cardiac death and is on-bypass keeping them alive momentarily - yet, want to be donors themselves for their other organs.
    See, normally, when you do an "organ procurement" it is someone who is brain dead and thus not conscious when you tie-off the aorta and vena cava while icing down the heart with frozen lactated ringers solution until it stops beating and their body dies.
    Then you have a moment of silence and get to work as it's a race against the clock to get them out and off to wherever they need to go.
    In this case of cardiac death, they roll into the OR suite knowing full-well once they are put under anesthesia, that's that, no waking up.
    The family came in and held their hand but it was still a hard surgery even though they are not going in pain.
    Not everyone can hang with that kind of case, and many of my colleagues signed waivers opting out of any organ procurement no matter.
    I felt lucky to have been a witness to the passing of those people...there is always a connection that remains in some odd way.

    Lots of love!
    :<3white:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Sandie33, flower, Kgal and 6 others like this.
  3. AJ_

    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Threads:
    18
    Messages:
    213
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    716
    MBTI:
    _
    Much...all...respect to you SK - if I had seen half of what you have seen I'd be a slop of a mess huddled in a corner. The fact that you've been able to go though all of that and provide comfort and guidance to others is a standard for many to aspire to. Thanks for continuing to share everything that you do - while I'm playing out this role you've been awesome. Much love to you and many others on this forum.
     
    Sandie33, flower, Kgal and 4 others like this.
  4. ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    51
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sacred Mars
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    Skeptic
    In my mind -

    Everyone should have a right to choose their own end, its the only thing we really can control.

    HOWEVER.

    Everyone should be supported in having enough joy and comfort so they don't feel the need.

    Some will consider death when life feels hopeless. We need to give hope back to these people. Given them value and purpose again.

    If you live in constant pain with no relief, paralysed living from day to endless day without end, then to keep you alive is basically torture.

    But there needs to be a VERY HIGH threshold with multiple Doctors agreeing there is not now, nor in the near future, a cure for your suffering.

    And if there is a cure, flipping well give it to them.
     
  5. Vendrah

    Vendrah Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    438
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    XNFP
    Problem is that, when people gave the sign, they dont take it serious. They just say that you want attention, and some of them will even use you to say "hey, this is guy is so [insert something bad], look at me, Im so good that I dont need this kind of attention, while this guy doesnt ."
    It is like you need to stab your ownself so perhaps they will take it serious. Perhaps.
     
    #45 Vendrah, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:59 AM
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020 at 2:07 AM
    Skarekrow, slant and Sandie33 like this.
  6. Vendrah

    Vendrah Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    438
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    XNFP
    Im sorry for people who are suicidal on this topic... Hope this forum gets them feel more warm and less cold. And sorry for double posting.

    There is one other aspect that it is the society impact. I prefer to not be long as I dont want to encourage anyone: What would be the impact in society if people all over the world had access of a suicide pill by paying 1 dollar in a drugstore? Im sure some non-suicidal people would lose lots of money indirectly because of it (I prefer to not specify why to not encourage anyone). This even makes me question if we are truly "free", since suicides are somewhat of an escape, and some cases (not the I´ll ones) the escape could be done still in life, if there would be some colaboration. Just one soft example, if the person wants affection and see death as a escape for the lack of affection, perhaps an opportunity to go to a new enviroment, system and life towards affection would be a better solution than death. Some suicides could be prevented and suffering softned if people were more able to transit freely into special enviroments, imagine things like, for a random example, an INFJ country with only INFJs, it could help (by my MBTI stats analysis, a country with a single type would fail, but this is just a random example).
     
  7. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    17,980
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    32,371
    Trophy Points:
    1,921
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    That is the current threshold in places that have made the practice legal.
    At least in the US -
    No one is advocating suicide as you describe it - many feel it is "cold" and less "warm"/compassionate to keep dying people alive only to suffer needlessly.
    This is not just talking about legalizing all suicide willy-nilly, nor have those places (states and/or countries) seen a migration of people wanting to kill themselves moving to do so legally once it became legal.
    This is not encouraging suicide in any case, but very specific cases of terminal and untreatable illness that will result in death within a certain time-frame.
    The controversial side of the debate concerning mental illness is definitely a touchy subject, on that I can agree.
    There are those who have untreatable mental illnesses just as there are physiological illnesses, and yes, the bar must be set higher and incredibly strict criteria for them should and must be undertaken.
    If you are questioning how "free" someone is, then restricting their own autonomy and final wishes has to also be considered.
    It would be wonderful if there were more resources to help those suffering, and as far as societal impacts go, it has been shown to have improved palliative and hospice care in those places where it has been legalized.
    People do not have the monetary access to such wonderful services unfortunately in many cases.

    (using OR as an example)
    The number of those choosing to go this route is fairly small actually.

    As far a moving to a new environment, etc.
    That doesn't change a terminal diagnosis.
    In those cases of mental illness, that is the main controversy - can anything else be done to help them improve of get better?
    How long would someone need to prove they will not?
    Decades?
    It's very easy for someone not in the position of suffering to judge, but not the same as living it.
    But yes, it is a controversy - I myself attempted suicide at 19 and have had lifelong depression that I have a very solid handle on now.
    It is also true though that not everyone responds to treatment or help given to them - not to mention the severe lack of resources available here in this country.
    It's highly debatable I agree!

    Take care both of you and thanks for sharing your thoughts!
    Much love!





    Edits - grammar and stuff​
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #47 Skarekrow, Feb 19, 2020 at 4:37 PM
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020 at 6:52 PM
    Professor Snep, Sandie33 and Rit4lin like this.
  8. Vendrah

    Vendrah Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    438
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    XNFP
    I dont know if you understand me, when I said I was avoiding to encourage I was talking directly about my own comments and not saying that people here were encouraging.
    And I do question if some mental illness (not the terminal patients but rather depressive ones) are a product of enviroment or it would have improvements into different enviroments, because terapy more or less actually moves the person to a comfortable place for a while. If the person would be put in an enviroment where he/she would be more comfortable, and perhaps better understood, than the chances of depression going away is higher. Special enviroments could do some good; It would need careful design, and it wouldnt be much costy if people could actually work on that enviroment as well. However designing that would really require to root the depression causes, and that isnt that easy.
     
    Skarekrow likes this.
  9. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    14
    Messages:
    1,031
    Featured Threads:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5,564
    Trophy Points:
    1,182
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    From an insurance point of view, they'd love it if we had assisted death in place across the entire US. Just as long as it isolates them away from the cost of lawsuits and keeps the financial burden away from them to maintain an otherwise expensive situation they'd be jumping for joy to have the dying off their coverage.

    So... why aren't they lobbying congress to create a law allowing assisted death as a right? I believe they are, but I also believe that there is an even more influential number of lobbyists (religious, pharmaceutical and device manufacturing) pushing the other way.
     
    Skarekrow likes this.
  10. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    17,980
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    32,371
    Trophy Points:
    1,921
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    I agree with you, yes.
    And I was unsure about what you were implying so thanks for clarifying your point. :)
    It would indeed be wonderful if we had a more comprehensive system for mental health that was still affordable and accessible to those who are in dire need.
    Environment does definitely change the behaviors of many people.
    The only issue is those who are unresponsive to any treatment, there are those who really have run the gambit of various treatments and therapies.
    Imho, those in such a position should have some pathway to be considered for a similar process as one would with a terminal illness.
    There should come a point if they are truly treatment resistant when their suffering will outweigh any more delay.
    But like you said, there should be a high bar for such a thing when in the realm of mental illness.

    Take care!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    17,980
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    32,371
    Trophy Points:
    1,921
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    People are too worried about so-called "death panels" being created I think.
    It's one thing to choose such a thing for yourself, and another completely to have your insurance push you to do such a thing!
    Still, this is what takes place in a more roundabout way - you're too old/ill, we will not cover (x), too bad if you can't afford it.
    The system is really screwy, at least in the US!!
    Hope you are doing well today!
    :<3white:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Sandie33 and MoonFlier like this.
  12. ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    51
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sacred Mars
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    Skeptic
    Its not legal in the UK. A lot of big cases in our High Courts about it. Lots of people taking a trip to Sweden/Norway to get around it.

    Funny thing is some in the US accuses the UK using Death Panels in the NHS. Utter rubbish its harder to end a life in the UK than the US.

    Steven Hawking wouldn't have survived in the US, he only survived because he was British and had the NHS.
     
Loading...

Share This Page