How can Christians justify being judgemental?

[ThirdIE]

OMG ELF! I applause! LMAO!
Cannabis + cute dog + lolwut text = EPIC!

As far as the judgemental scope of this discussion is concerned, it applies to most if not all religions.

People tend to forget that the word of God is God's word. Only God can judge people and people should not JUDGE each other. The worst that happens is applying God's judgement. But judging a person is putting oneself into God realm... Ahum ahum!

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Is the problem judging or condemning?

To be unable to differentiate (judge) between right and wrong does not seem desirable. To say that someone has no judgement is an insult.

To condemn someone for doing something wrong is another matter.


I suspect that the condemnation of others is more prevalent in groups that have no concept of forgiveness/absolution - I am reluctant to call these groups christian, because forgivenesss/absolution of wrongs/sin is fundamental to Christianity.

 

[Matariki]

because christianity is the excuse they use for their bigotry

Advice to all;

Shai Gar is an ENTP, for your own safety, please do not take everything he says seriously.

That is all.

 

[Matariki]

Religion makes me sick. How can you people be so ignorant...

That was a very ignorant statement.

Are you religious by any chance?

 

[Barnabas]

points of clarification:


Christianity is not a religion of tolerance nor is it taught

2+2=5

If you feel i'm wrong please correct me.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

points of clarification:


Christianity is not a religion of tolerance nor is it taught

If you feel i'm wrong heplease correct me.

Tolerance or bearing with one another is taught:

St Paul to the Christians at Colossae:
As God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience. Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lordf has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

 

[Barnabas]

Tolerance or bearing with one another is taught:

St Paul to the Christians at Colossae:
As God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience. Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lordf has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

sorry to turn this around but, this leads to the next point.

Christianity is not a religion of Tolerance but instead a religion of forgiveness.

Christians should not tolerate sin but instead forgive sinners.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

sorry to turn this around but, this leads to the next point.

Christianity is not a religion of Tolerance but instead a religion of forgiveness.

Christians should not tolerate sin but instead forgive sinners.

A false dichotomy.

Tolerance does not mean one consents to a wrong, but that one is willing to suffer it.

 

[Barnabas]

A false dichotomy.

Tolerance does not mean one consents to a wrong, but that one is willing to suffer it.

according to google's dictionary

If you tolerate a situation or person, you accept them although you do not particularly like them

Webster's definition

to allow to be or to be done without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction b : to put up with

here are the definitions reworded to fit our conversation

G.
if you tolerate sin, you accept it although you do not particularly like it.

W.
a: to allow sin to be done without prohibition, hinderance, or contradiction
b: to put up with sin


can you justify these statements ith scripture?

 

[acd]

sorry to turn this around but, this leads to the next point.

Christianity is not a religion of Tolerance but instead a religion of forgiveness.

Christians should not tolerate sin but instead forgive sinners.

And hopefully in the process, keep quiet and not badger "sinners" for their "sins." I'm ok with being privately and silently forgiven. I don't want to hear about Christian morality if I don't subscribe to it, though.

Christian self-rightousness is in the end, counter productive to your objectives.

 

[Barnabas]

And hopefully in the process, keep quiet and not badger "sinners" for their "sins." I'm ok with being privately and silently forgiven. I don't want to hear about Christian morality if I don't subscribe to it, though.

There is a reason for the badgering, try poking around the proselytization thread created a few days ago.

 

[acd]

There is a reason for the badgering, try poking around the proselytization thread created a few days ago.

Been there, done it, lived it.

I'm really finding your condescening tone irritating, especially because you don't know anything that I don't already know in this area.


If you can't understand that badgering people for their sins is counter productive to "drawing them into the fold" then your career as a Christian is going to be a shotty one.

You may believe that you know what is best because a book tells you so. Yet, can you even comprehend how someone who doesn't agree with you would find your badgering annoying and irresponsible since it's all based on hearsay and circular reasoning?

 

[Barnabas]

Been there, done it, lived it.

I'm really finding your condescening tone irritating, especially because you don't know anything that I don't already know in this area.


If you can't understand that badgering people for their sins is counter productive to "drawing them into the fold" then your career as a Christian is going to be a shotty one.

You may believe that you know what is best because a book tells you so. Yet, can you even comprehend how someone who doesn't agree with you would find your badgering annoying and irresponsible since it's all based on hearsay and circular reasoning?

First off and most importantly, I'm sorry if I appeared condescending. It was not my intention.

My only intention was to give you perspective on why a Christian might be "badgering" you, since i don't know you or your circumstances I just wanted to try to give you a new perspective.

Finaly I would like to point out that assuming that you know more then or equal knowledge on a subject then some one else you don't know is a bad idea. As you don't know me or my circumstances you there fore also don't know my knowledge level on any given subject.

But this is all of topic lets not continue.

 

[acd]

Let's just say I know enough to know where you're at.

Initially, I was saying Christians should keep their convictions regarding the personal affairs of others quiet. Being pushy and self-righteous isn't helping the cause, and it can't be justified because most people are smart enough to see through the circular reasoning.
That's the only point was wanting to make.

 

[Krumplenump]

I cannot relate to your question in terms of the morals behind 'why religion turns people against the world because that would also be turning against Jesus', since I'm atheist, but I could offer you some reasons why religion turns people against other individuals, groups, countries or societies:

1. Religion is OLD and was championed in an era when tribalism and archaic heirarchies and clannish loyalties reigned supreme. Therefore religion is by definition of the age it was fermented in perfectly suited to the selfish, the cockily certain and to groups that like to divide themselves and justify the often violent (today maybe more verbally confontational) divisions with a divine warrant.

2. It promotes fear through seemingly benign threats and the necessity for belittling ones self. This promotes an element of selfishness in people in an effort to 'save ones own skin' when they are to be judged and will often lead to widespread hatred of clerically approved groups or individuals as though it solidifies their piousness and subsequent entry into the kingdom of god.

As a foot note, i'd like to highlight that devoting ones life or living according to the teachings of Christ is a bit of an ironic disposition. Jesus forgave the sins of all those who had trespassed against others without a second thought for the greivances those trespasses had caused the victims. One of the core principles of Jesus' 'morals' is that you, as a Christian, have every right to discard your responsibilites on to an imaginary friend and let a bloody scapegoat die for your errors. This is arguably a relinquishment of a core tenant of morality itself: being accountable for your actions, having responsiblity. I therefore struggle to understand how so many Christians can justify following their faith in the name of goodness at all.

If I were you, I'd discard the man-made precepts of religion and just follow your gut feelings, your heart, your innate human capacity for understanding and morality when deciding how to act or feel about such things as abortion.

 

[Barnabas]

I cannot relate to your question in terms of the morals behind 'why religion turns people against the world because that would also be turning against Jesus', since I'm atheist, but I could offer you some reasons why religion turns people against other individuals, groups, countries or societies:

1. Religion is OLD and was championed in an era when tribalism and archaic heirarchies and clannish loyalties reigned supreme. Therefore religion is by definition of the age it was fermented in perfectly suited to the selfish, the cockily certain and to groups that like to divide themselves and justify the often violent (today maybe more verbally confontational) divisions with a divine warrant.

2. It promotes fear through seemingly benign threats and the necessity for belittling ones self. This promotes an element of selfishness in people in an effort to 'save ones own skin' when they are to be judged and will often lead to widespread hatred of clerically approved groups or individuals as though it solidifies their piousness and subsequent entry into the kingdom of god.

As a foot note, i'd like to highlight that devoting ones life or living according to the teachings of Christ is a bit of an ironic disposition. Jesus forgave the sins of all those who had trespassed against others without a second thought for the greivances those trespasses had caused the victims. One of the core principles of Jesus' 'morals' is that you, as a Christian, have every right to discard your responsibilites on to an imaginary friend and let a bloody scapegoat die for your errors. This is arguably a relinquishment of a core tenant of morality itself: being accountable for your actions, having responsiblity. I therefore struggle to understand how so many Christians can justify following their faith in the name of goodness at all.

If I were you, I'd discard the man-made precepts of religion and just follow your gut feelings, your heart, your innate human capacity for understanding and morality when deciding how to act or feel about such things as abortion.

(this statement only pertains to your foot note)
You still haven't picked up a Bible and read through it have you.

 

[Krumplenump]

(this statement only pertains to your foot note)
You still haven't picked up a Bible and read through it have you.

lol.

Are you saying my claim that Christians claim Jesus died for all our sins is incorrect?

 

[Barnabas]

lol.

Are you saying my claim that Christians claim Jesus died for all our sins is incorrect?

No sir, I should have clarified a little farther. What I ment to imply was, you were wrong that Christians arn't responsible for their actions or that the Bible teaches that Christians arn't responsible or accountable for their actions.

this ones kinda universal, I don't actualy need to sight biblical evidence(though I can) to prove this because you'll be hard pressed to find a christian that believes that they arn't accountable for their actions.

 

[Krumplenump]

Being hard pressed to find someone who calls themselves Christian and who does not have responsibility for their actions may be true in practice (thanks to the fact that religion isn't taken THAT literally by many), but what I was highlighting was why some Christians live their lives according to Jesus' preachings when his sacrifice for all our sins is OBVIOUSLY a transferral of responsiblity. I don't care what you say the bible says or not, the undeniable fact is that the claim 'he died for our sins' leaves all the people who were sinned against without justice and that we are able to transfer our responsibilies, if we want, to a celestial icon.

So,

you were wrong that Christians arn't responsible for their actions

Had I said 'Christians are not responsible as people' I would be have been wrong yes. But I didn't.

or that the Bible teaches that Christians arn't responsible or accountable for their actions.

No. The bibles teaching (from what is general knowledge, yes, much to your glee I confess I have not thumbed through every page of Corinthians) is evidently condoning transferral of sins to Jesus since he died for us. There are a myriad of other instances when Christianity demands the relinquishment of responsibility and the capitulation of will in return for divine praise. Whether people actually DO is another question, and since most DON'T I'm questioning why anyone should follow Christianity at all.

 

[randomsomeone]

his sacrifice for all our sins is OBVIOUSLY a transferral of responsiblity.

That is not entirely accurate. Besides...of all the ways of articulating the meaning of the life and teaching of Jesus, "transferral of responsibility" would not even make the list.

Back on the judgemental thing....even though this does occur in many venues, when you throw God into the mix somehow things get really weird. Religion can have a dark side (even Jesus preached against this) that is to be avoided. It tends to twist things using religious words/ideas while overlooking the underlying principles that are better balanced. When you run into judgemental people remember they are in a place that they will hopefully move away from...they are not generally at the heart of their faith.