How can Christians justify being judgemental? | INFJ Forum

How can Christians justify being judgemental?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Altruistic Muse, Mar 21, 2010.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 1 user.
More threads by Altruistic Muse
  1. Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Threads:
    104
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4?
    I really don't understand this one! I have been through a pretty difficult time with regards to a friend right now. She has had an abortion and it is something that I fundamentally disagree with. But a friend of mine, a Christian (I am also one, although have lost my way a bit lately) said to me you can deal with this fine, if you need a little help from God then just ask him. So I did, and he gave me tolerance, and I am able to be there for my friend. Because it is not my problem, God is dealing with it, and with this freedom I feel like I can be the person he wants me to be. This is the point though; I have gained tolerance and patience and lost any judgemental element to my personality. Which is obviously in line with Jesus' teachings: everyone is a sinner, and any sinner who turns to Jesus will be saved. So it is not for any of us to throw the first stone. So how then, can religion turn people against the rest of the world, when in this action they are also turning against Jesus?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Blind Bandit and enfp can be shy like this.
  2. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    because christianity is the excuse they use for their bigotry
     
  3. OP
    Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Threads:
    104
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4?
    Do you think?! Well why not take off the mask and just be a dickhead?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #3 Altruistic Muse, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2010
  4. Jana

    Jana Searching...

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Threads:
    81
    Messages:
    2,080
    Likes Received:
    387
    Trophy Points:
    642
    MBTI:
    infj

    You can't put all Christians into one box...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Threads:
    33
    Messages:
    2,142
    Likes Received:
    460
    Trophy Points:
    215
    MBTI:
    Hey Ho
    Enneagram:
    flibble
    Presumably the people who use religion as a mask to turn against others, are already against others, but the religion gives them a framework from within which, they feel less responsible for being an asshole. It becomes the will of God, rather than their personal foul mood or intolerant action. This makes life easier for them, because they get to be a jerk in the name of righteousness.

    On the other hand, generous and kind hearted people will embrace the mask of religion and use it as a means to act nobly and generously, but in the name of God, rather than in their own name, which keeps them at a level of humility, tolerance and love.

    It's always the person, or people that make one ideology (religious or otherwise) wicked, or another thing wonderful, and so if a godlike person ascribes their name to something, it is blessed, and if an evil-minded person ascribes their name to something, it is cursed, but the thing itself, like any mask, is always perfectly neutral.

    Ultimately, I suppose, you only ever have to concern yourself with where your heart is, and if your feelings and intentions towards others are good, no matter your religion, so will your actions and interactions in the world be good, and all will be well.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #5 Puck, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2010
    sassafras likes this.
  6. Morgain

    Morgain defective wisdom
    Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Threads:
    114
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ again
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    christianity is such a vage religion and can be seen in so many ways and used for so many purposes. So many people are killed in the name of Christ while in fact Christ never judged anyone

    I believe that to know what is good or wrong you need to look in your own heart. There is where your answer lies and I believe that that is the message that Jesus gave us.

    I'm happy that you can be there for your friend. I also think we don't need to judge other people for there actions. We can point out we disagree but then it is up to them and we are not in the position to judge whether this action is right or wrong. Just being there if they need our help and giving them courage to take there own descitions is all we can do!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,092
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    'freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4' (Orwell, '1984')

    Some people are not using their capacity for critical thinking
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Norton

    Norton XXXX

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    524
    Trophy Points:
    667
    MBTI:
    XXXX
    Enneagram:
    XXXX
    I don't believe Jesus ever said anything against abortion or Gays, for that matter. He had bigger fish to fry.
     
  9. OP
    Altruistic Muse

    Altruistic Muse Community Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Threads:
    104
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4?
    I don't think he was, I think we were discussing the ones who use religion as an excuse to discriminate specifically. I know lots of lovely Christianss, and some horrible ones. Just like the rest of the world! The difference is that the atheist horrible people I know don't have an excuse other than having issues, whereas the Christian ones seem to use this religion as an excuse!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,092
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Yeah he was dealing with the fact that his country was under military occupation and that elements of the religious establishment were working with the occupiers and running a commercial venture instead of working in the interests of their own people

    His cousin 'john the baptist' was an anti establishment figure who was on his own collision course with the power elite, so clearly he was coming from a radical background. Is it possible that he took the teachings of gnostics and adapted them for public consumption in an attempt to put out a popularist message of peaceful resistance?

    As a rabble rouser the establishment saw him as a threat to their power and had him executed.

    This story of quiet revolution was then taken by none other than the romans themselves and turned into a global racket which promises everlasting paradise in return for blind obedience

    Does the church have any more of a clue what is going on than anyone else....no it doesn't
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Sauferei

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Religion makes me sick. How can you people be so ignorant...
     
  12. Kavalan

    Kavalan Has risen

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Threads:
    41
    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    328
    Trophy Points:
    637
    MBTI:
    ISTJ
    Enneagram:
    1W9
    I don't k ow who you were referring to but simply put some people whish/cannot grasp the world around them as a whole and need something to grasp to. Sadly some fly in the face of the known, but old habits die hard.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,092
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    The problem with superstitions is that they occupy space which could be filled with answers

    The problem with fixed moral codes is that they cannot evolve with society

    The problem with claims pretending to be fact is that, if accepted, they can deprive the will to seek out the facts

    The problem with an anodyne influence is that it will stop people searching out the cause of the problem and setting about solving it

    To believe that you hold all the answers already is to stop looking for new answers and checking if what you believe is true

    If we want our intuitions to be close to the truth then we must keep feeding them (with the right material) so that we can constantly recalibrate our intuitions in order to maintain perspective

    Religion closes down this process. That is not to say there are not valid ideas within it but to take it as a full stop on further exploration is an injustice to oneself
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    It is common for people to assess, define, identify what may be considered right and wrong....or if you'd like, what works and doesn't work. That can be called judging but it isn't all the same. Some of these seem very proper (and Jesus did get miffed, let's not forget). "Judging" seems in to involve taking a standard and using this to completely condemn an individual or group, as if we had that final authority.

    So yes, Christians can make judgements about things, but applying that to a person (whose heart, intentions, wounds we will never understand) is something to be avoided. Why? We simply do not have the information to do it....plain and simple.

    I see this all the time. An objective behavior may be seen as wrong....whatever it may be. Fine. But if we know an individual caught in the trap of this "wrong" we may actually have tremendous compassion for them on some (or many) levels.

    If one is worried about judgement, yes you may pickup that vibe, but sometimes it is more a matter of letting that particular voice resonate in your head....more than it should. There are other voices...give them a listen, too.

    Christianity seems to be a convenient scapegoat these days....generally it's based on weird assumptions or the comic-book version. Often it's more a matter ot doing whatever it takes to place one's own ego first. It is, however, a very complex religion with many nuances. There are lots of balancing factors to consider and things are far from black and white.
     
  15. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
    Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Threads:
    36
    Messages:
    2,538
    Likes Received:
    288
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    enfp
    Enneagram:
    -
    How could anyone still remain judgemental today? That's the mystery I can't understand.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Morgain

    Morgain defective wisdom
    Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Threads:
    114
    Messages:
    2,721
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ again
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    that is because they believe that this world is going to damnation because we have not been judgemental enough so that now people are running wild (guys, abortion, ...). For the record, I'm not one of them :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Oh, it's pretty rampant from what I can tell although it may show up in different ways/places. It is in the realm of humanity, not just religion.

    From a religious point-of-view, there is a theological construct and a pastoral construct. When I have seen it, judgementalism seems to originate in some theological rigidity or even underlying fear. The pastoral construct in religion, howeer, is very different...I have seen great compassion, gentleness and care come from this. Generally, the two can be linked into the very same human issue. People focus (for some reason) on the theological, maybe because it's written down somewhere. Sometimes people even torment themselves over what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a theological ideal. I almost always suggest focusing on the pastoral (not that the theological ideal is irrelevant...it has a purpose). The pastoral perspective is less publicly identifiable perhaps, but it is the realm where real people live and a huge part of real-life religious practise.

    And yes, I know this from my own experience....this is not just theory.
     
  18. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Threads:
    129
    Messages:
    4,928
    Featured Threads:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8,891
    Trophy Points:
    877
    MBTI:
    SOCMOB
    Enneagram:
    .
    The way I see it everybody is religious in that they all believe in a certain interpretation of existence or devote themselves to something whether it be allah, Jesus, money, pride, etc. I see religion as unavoidable. Even atheism represents a belief about the nature of existence that can be a religion in itself. You must be sick alot.


    People make judgments based on past experience and the norms and environment in which they were raised or in which they live. I think that one can definitely improve the quality of one's life by trying to keep an open mind and a desire to discover and to learn. Not everyone needs/wants that quality of life though. It doesn't really surprise me that people can still be judgmental.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,092
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    It isn't just christianity that falls foul of this. There are negative perceptions of Islam which are largely created by the media.

    Muslims are constantly portrayed in the western media as rioting, shouting angry mobs, but i think if someone dropped a bomb on my house killing my family i would be out in the street shouting as well. Its worth bearing in mind that one independant source has put the death toll of Iraqis due to violence at 1.2 million just from this latest gulf war. There are also unknown numbers of deaths and deformities resulting from the depleted uranium shells fired by coalition forces in both gulf wars (these continue to kill and deform babies, possibly hundreds of thousands)

    I think most people around the world regardless of their beliefs just want to live a simple life free from dread.

    People have been interpreting religion and laws in drastically different ways in order to justify their own actions.

    Not all christians are judgemental militants and not all muslims are suicide bombers. The media likes to elicit strong responses and often the prejudices created from these help the people in power to get the support they need for various actions; for example invading other countries in order to gain access to their oil.

    It is interesting to note that many people around the world of different faiths feel blessed; no one religion seems to have a monopoly on that....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #19 muir, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2010
  20. Puck

    Puck Perilous Pixie
    Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Threads:
    33
    Messages:
    2,142
    Likes Received:
    460
    Trophy Points:
    215
    MBTI:
    Hey Ho
    Enneagram:
    flibble
    [​IMG]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Matariki and Sloe Djinn like this.
Loading...

Share This Page