Homosexual Marriage and Adoption | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

Homosexual Marriage and Adoption

IndigoSensor said:
Oh don't worry, I am not sad at all. It is an honest argument, and you give a valid point I have not thought of before :)

Even so, shouldn't we start somewhere? Nearly all socieital changes where a social group becomes excepted starts with a small few who take the front end blasts.
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Ahh the rebellions ;) I see where you are going, there has to be a start and someone needs to break through although my concern initially lies with the child who for one may be bullied and considered an outcast due to its parents. Also because the child grows up with the same sex parents, he/she will most likely have a distorted picture of what is 'the law of nature' and is likely to be gay himself. We need attributes from a female and a male perspective in order to have a secure self-image, don't you think? Not a femalish gay man as mother and a masculine man as father. At least that is what freud said ;)
 
Unfortunately, kids are bullied for numbers of reasons

I think there are ways the issue can be addressed, including bullying related to a kid's parents' sexualities.

I don't suggest that we sacrifice several generations of kids in the hopes that eventually, it'll become common and it will no longer be an issue. It needs to be addressed somehow for sure. But I think that keeping gay couples from becoming parents (when they desire to raise a family) propagates the problem.

Maybe I am deluded, but I think kids are more used to the idea of diverse sexualities now more than ever. And that's probably the root of the resistance people have, not being used to something that they've only envisioned one way since the beginning of time (as far as what's been accepted and validated). I think it will get easier.

Edited to add: I think if a child 'becomes' gay based on the relationship between their parents, wouldn't that mean the child is already open to that on some level. Most gay kids grow up with heterosexual parents and siblings, yet they are aware of their sexuality even from quite an early age. I do believe that if we become more accepting of homosexuality, more people will explore their sexuality and will probably decide they are bisexual or something other than heterosexual. Sexuality is a degree of preference. If you picture a linear scale, on one end you have homosexuality and the other is heterosexuality. Probably very few people ever fall at the extreme, even those who feel they are definitely only attracted to one sex. In reality, it's more complex than that and there are many other aspects to one's sexuality than the simple linear scale I suggested can represent. I just wanted to illustrate that point.
 
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Kids, in many areas (not everywhere), are becoming more comfortable with diverse sexualities. That is not to say a child won't become bullied...but then, children find reasons to bully each other. It probably won't be so bad as most people think.

But remember, children grow up to be perfectly functional in single-parent families, where only one sex is represented. And there is not a whole lot of evidence that states that the sexuality of the parent(s) changes that of the child through their behavior (genetics we aren't so sure about, if I recall correctly).
 
Whoa Whoa here....I'm gonna jump in here again. There was some questioning as to the fitness of a gay/lesian couple to adopting and raising.

What about the fitness of the california octuplet mom? Why is it 'okay' for her to have 14 kids as a single parent with NO income but two stable people with homes and jobs and are in a committed relationship can't adopt one?

Kids are cruel little monsters who will prey on any percieved weakness in their peers. They won't be any meaner to the adopted child of a gay couple than they will be to the kid who wears glasses, has ears that stick out, big clumsy feet and can't afford 'hip' clothes.

Furthermore, the adopted kid is more likely to be able to shake off the teasing of their insecure peers as they will have been raised with unconditional love from both of their parents. Something most hetero kids don't have. The poor geek is going to be going home and reading books, playing video games, and on the computer all the time. The geeks parents are probably completely unaware of their kids inner anguish, or they are lobbing out the age old worn out excuses for the other kids behaviors.
 
^^ Listen to her. She's a mom.
 
What everyone else said.

*sigh* this just further proves to me that I should not bother debating :rolleyes:
 
Why refrain from debating Indigo? The more you do it the better you will get. I would think you'd have some sort of a vested interest in such topics.

Besides, you may be able to bring something to the table that no one else can. Thereby further empowering others engaged in the debate.
 
alcyone said:
Why refrain from debating Indigo? The more you do it the better you will get. I would think you'd have some sort of a vested interest in such topics.

Besides, you may be able to bring something to the table that no one else can. Thereby further empowering others engaged in the debate.
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I have been trying for a very long time, trust me. Haha, the whole reason I took AP gov't & politics in highschool was to get better at debating. It didn't help much, lol. Trust me I have very strong opinions about many things, and have alot of interest in those topics. The thing is, when I try to explain my opinions, and debate them. I always miss so many details about it and it sounds very muttled and not well thought out. As such when all of you added to my opinion I sat here and said "YES! That is what I wanted to say!" But I just did not think of it. Not only that, I end up getting so frusterated with people when I debate. I cant count how many times I have sat here reading/replying to debate type things and yelling at my computer "GAH! This/you are so annoying!! BARLGITY!!!! *groan*" cause I simply cant articulate my thoughts in a concice manner. It makes sense in my head, and I just can't get beyond that.
 
So, you debate with baby steps. Say what is on your mind at the moment. Don't elaborate, don't get in depth.

Let someone else ask you to go in depth. Then concentrate on their question. And only answer their question. No tangentizing.

Take a critical look at how Satya and Duty discuss things. They break it up into little bits and deal with them one at a time; instead of trying to put everything into a single response.

Little steps, baby bites. Pretty soon you'll be jumping in, Fe in hand and Ti (or would that be Te?)not too far behind.
 
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It's not just the kids I worry about. Adults do far more damage than the "teasing" snot-nosed brats ever could. (And you can't assume that just because the couple is gay that the child is going to have unconditional love.)

That doesn't mean a homosexual couple shouldn't adopt...but it would be ridiculous to assume it wouldn't be difficult for the child.

I'm only black, lol. There was a time when that was a huge issue in America. Trust me, if I'm still going through ish in 2009 with THAT sort of thing I can only IMAGINE what it would be like for an adopted kid whose parents are gay! I mean, damn. That's the new hottest thing to hate on nowadays! More disgusting than all the Mexicans crossing over illegally...more obscene than interracial couples...and even more offensive than middle easterners in American airports! Americans pair gay marriage on the same level as abortion. It's THAT big a deal here. Turn on a radio station and what are they bitching about? Gay marriage, blah blah blah! Proposition 8, blah, blah, blah! Marriage is only between a man and a woman, blah, blah, blah! Let's regurgitate bible verses together, blah, blah, blah! People get really fired up. There are going to be some evil adults out there (teachers/principals/neighbors/etc.) that are going to mess with that child, simply because that child has gay parents. Forget about the stupid kids. The adults are going to be the problem.

Again, this doesn't mean that just because it's difficult, people shouldn't adopt. If the parents are aware of the issues that will face that child, and will be ready to address those unique issues responsibly, I say GO FOR IT! Again, if parents are aware of the odds that are going to be against their relationship and their child, they should happily be parents! I don't have a problem with the homosexual couple...I have a problem with the crazy psychos out there who would target the child to vent their hatred on homosexuals.

I would have the same opinion about the subject if it was about interracial couples trying to adopt in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. And hell, I'm in an interracial relationship! I would be wary about an interracial couple trying to adopt in that time period just because of all the crazy people out there.

Now, with that said...does that mean that homosexual adoptions are going to be as violent as all the other "unwanted" groups in America's history? I don't know. But I know this: people are nuts, and although they might not hang up homosexuals in trees in crazy lynching mobs, their children are vulnerable targets. Am I exaggerating the issue? You can think so if you want. Think whatever you like, you're entitled to it. I can only speak from my personal experiences. Some of my teachers tortured me simply because I was black...and I'm talking about in the 2000s...not the 40s! There will be those same asshats torturing these adopted kids. I guarantee it. And probably worse than what went on with me because right now hating on homosexuals is now the new American past time. *rolls eyes*

I'm for gay rights and homosexual couples. Their love is one that is so misunderstood. I feel a kinship to the struggle that they are going through. Being seen as "unwanted" is a challenging thing. But times will change, I'm sure of that. Full faith and credit clause in the constitution, lol. Eventually homosexual marriages will be legal in the US. After that, it will only be a matter of time when these psychos calm down about adoptions. And just MAYBE after that, Americans will also calm down about abortions. And maybe maybe maybe Americans will run out of things to hate. Although I doubt it, lol.
 
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Indigo, don't sweat it. No one is going to slaughter you for not expressing yourself "just so." And if members do get bitchy about it, screw them. Say what you want to say. If you feel you don't get it quite right, keep trying! :D This isn't a formal debate with any experts. You're not on TV. There's no one to impress here. You're talking to a bunch of anonymous people on the internet, lol! (Even if we do disagree with you, would it really matter in the grand scheme of things?)

Use us a practice audience to hone your skills! :mhula:
 
Technically you're not as anonymous as the rest of us since someone has seen you in real lift ;)
 
Shai Gar said:
I am against homosexual couples adopting as well, but for a totally different reason. Children need to grow up with a male role model, and a female role model to study and learn from, so that they can understand the genders and gender interaction and courting rituals better.
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I do not subscribe to the male-female role model argument in the slightest. The way I see it all it does is perpetuate culturally-constructed gender roles... and just how do people learn "courting rituals" from a couple that is already in a relationship?

Pristinegirl said:
FINALLLY joining the homo discussion after long ignoring it xD

I am not against homosexual marriage; if it is true love then I say go for it. =)
Although I am sorry if there are any homosexuals on here who may be offended now, but I absolutely do not think that gays should be able to have (adopt) a child. One has to consider that children in fact come from heterozygous - male and female joined - and that a child is a new life who will live and suffer enormous prejudice and bullying due to e.g. male-male couples. They may be excellent people and it may be wrong of the whole world, ALTHOUGH you cannot fight against the majority in millions when a child will suffer as you do so.
Therefore as 'responsible wanting to be "parents" they should make the right judgement and rethink bringing a baby into a life of consequences.
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Yeah that is a bit sketchy. In a way, prohibiting homosexual couples from adopting is in itself discrimination. Discriminating to avoid discrimination kind of defeats the purpose and just continues to feed the cycle of homosexuals being outcasts. I also think if people are going to do that then they may as well stop Obese couples, Asian couples and Ginger couples from adopting because they will be a source of ridicule as well. Putting a child into that risky position just to initiate social change is a bit unfair though, so you have a point. Change needs to start somewhere else.
 
Indigo is a tough dude ;) don't underestimate yourself I think you do a great job debating and questioning to be honest :)

If the parents are aware of the issues that will face that child, and will be ready to address those unique issues responsibly, I say GO FOR IT! Again, if parents are aware of the odds that are going to be against their relationship and their child, they should happily be parents! I don't have a problem with the homosexual couple...I have a problem with the crazy psychos out there who would target the child to vent their hatred on homosexuals.
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I couldnt agree more, although it is inevtible to see that the child of homosexual parents will suffer, regardless of how good parents adress the problem. Because it is a cultural problem that homosexual are faced with allready - and bringing in another target (the child) to such prejudice would be very irresponsible, dissregarding how wrong I think society is.
See, the probem is the NORM and hiding the child form its pikes would also result badly.
 
The bible should not just an excuse for people to not think of what is right and what is wrong in my opinion. In my opinion people should not blindly follow, like sheep to a slaughterhouse, to apease or get close to a god. If people did not blindly follow there would be no caste system in Hinduism and people would not be blindly sacrifices in the Aztac society a long time ago. But I guess to each his own. When places were unsegregated lots of children were ostrosized very badly, but that has lead to a greater chance for a good education. I think only good could come out of what is not wrong only what jerks make is wrong. Besides homosexuality is almost completely accepted where I live, because most people think for themselves what is right and don't look to the bible for guidence if something doesn't make sense morally. I am sorry but if someone is against gay people because of what Leviticus states in the old testament or of what Jesus refered to that is not thinking for themselves what it right on every single matter. It's stating that that person has chosen that the bible is the right way to live ones life regardless of the harm it causes to others. Which is selfish in my opinion. I still believe people need to think about why somethings right and not just say _____ said or stated it was right.
 
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You have a good point ophelia. However I don't look to the bible to get my opinion. I respect ´homosexuals and believe they have the right to have same sex relationships. ALTHOUGH I do not support them having 'children'. Call me a naturalist but mother nature has not allowed xx-xx or xy-xy to have children for a reason. It is clear too see that xy-xx is the reproductionary form and therefore it should stay like that. Whatever it is, god or not, this is a substantial FACT! Boys and girls they belong together in order for reproduction ^^
 
I respect your opinion but as long as they can have children why not let them adopt.I should be banned from this forum...or there should be a botton somewhere that I could able to click and not be able to have acsses to this forum.
1.Infertile woman+man+much$=child
2.mariage or couple(Man+Man)+$+Woman=biological child for gay couple
3.couple or married(woman+woman)+willing man=biological child for gay couple
4. gay married couple+adoption=child who needs a home for a couple who has other options and one less person to overpopulate the earth
we can't ignore options 2+3
 
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FYI, the studies that have been done of children raised by same sex parents indicate that they develop no better or worse than children raised by heterosexual parents. The objective evidence does not coincide with all these fears of "bullying". Otherwise, the NASW would advocate for not letting same sex parents adopt, but they advocate for the opposite. And to be blunt, if you aren't going to allow people adopt because they are gay just because there is a possibility the child is going to be bullied, then that should probably be extended to people with funny sounding last names who want to adopt. There is a great potential for bullying there and obvioulsy those people with funny last names should be forbidden to adopt a child because of it.

Call me a naturalist but mother nature has not allowed xx-xx or xy-xy to have children for a reason. It is clear too see that xy-xx is the reproductionary form and therefore it should stay like that. Whatever it is, god or not, this is a substantial FACT! Boys and girls they belong together in order for reproduction.
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In primates, homosexuality is highly prevalent. It makes up 50% of sexual activity in bonobos, our closest genetic hominid relative. Recessive males within bonobo tribes play a large role in raising offspring. So while you might believe your comment is intelligent, the fact of the matter is, what occurs in nature coincides with the belief that gays should be fully capable of raising children. Your "naturalist" opinion is actually precisely what Christians believe, because it is the exact same gender role argument that Paul made.
 
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