Homosexual Marriage and Adoption
- Thread starter Satya
- Start date
This assumes the bible is right, and/or that the bible is an accurate representation of what God thinks.
I prefer to argue from a philosophical view.
Bad things hurt other people, thats why they are bad, independant of God.
God dislikes bad things BECAUSE they are bad.
A person being attracted to members of the same sex and even having sex with them does NOT hurt third parties!
ERGO: homosexuality itself is NOT bad.
And now we are back into morality.
I can't argue this while at work!
ARGHH!
I prefer to argue from a philosophical view.
Bad things hurt other people, thats why they are bad, independant of God.
God dislikes bad things BECAUSE they are bad.
A person being attracted to members of the same sex and even having sex with them does NOT hurt third parties!
ERGO: homosexuality itself is NOT bad.
And now we are back into morality.
I can't argue this while at work!
ARGHH!
S
Shai Gar
THREE CHEERS FOR MALE HOMOSEXUALITY, LONG MAY IT SPREAD.Serket said:Homosexuality will spread:
1. is that bad?
2. by making children think its ok to be gay? ...leads back to 1.
3. by making children actually gay?...leads back to 1.
I welcome the ensuing debate on the morality of homosexuality
ShaiGar said:THREE CHEERS FOR MALE HOMOSEXUALITY, LONG MAY IT SPREAD.Serket said:Homosexuality will spread:
1. is that bad?
2. by making children think its ok to be gay? ...leads back to 1.
3. by making children actually gay?...leads back to 1.
I welcome the ensuing debate on the morality of homosexuality
My INFJ senses tell me that you are more interested in removing competition than promoting equal rights.
S
Shai Gar
_flux said:As entertaining and extensive as this discussion was on the INFP board, I'm going to have to sit this one out.
Why? All information you could add would only assist anyone on the fence in making a decision.
As this is an issue that may have an impact on your life at some point why not take every oppurtunity to share what you know.
All knowledge is worth having.
alcyone said:
Cool. Would you permit me to link you instead? It's just that, if I were share to everything I did over there, it would take me a few days of consecutive typing here. Some of it gets very heated, and I'm a bit more standoffish at times than I would now choose to be:
http://infp.globalchatter.com/messagebo ... .php?t=363
(I'm also the infp.globalchatter.com user formerly known as musician/activist. I changed my name to flux partway through the thread.)
_flux said:Satya said:Fi overdose!
Not to criticize, but this thread is about homosexual marriage and adoption, and that thread is about homosexuality in general.
Hehehe, okay, but (s)he asked. *points*
So far I have gotten to the 25th page. Insane amount of reading and it certainly puts Wandering in a new light. It has raise lots of new and interesting questions, of which I think I will create new threads to explore. So far my favorite quotes are...
S
Shai Gar
I am actually done. After much, and I do mean much, reading, I can sum up the arguments that have been made against homosexuality and homosexual marriage and adoption. There was a considerable amount of repetition and expansion on the basic ideas, but here they are...
1. Homosexuals currently have all the same rights as heterosexuals. Homosexuals only want "special rights". Homosexual marriage and adoption are "special rights". They are not rights that are being protected, but rights that are being created. Homosexual marriage has never existed before the gay rights movement. It would be wrong to give homosexuals "special rights".
2. Homosexuality does not demonstrate a clear advantage to society and/or the government and should therefore not be supported.
3. Heterosexuality is the tried and true method for raising children. Children need a mother and father, and thus children are best raised in a heterosexual family.
4. The purpose of marriage is for procreation and as an institution within which to raise children, and as homosexuals are incapable of reproducing on their own, they are not entitled to it, or the rights and benefits inherent within it.
5. Allowing homosexual marriage and adoption will further degrade the moral fabric of society by further degrading the concepts of a marriage and family. The traditional nuclear family is the ideal, and abandoning that concept is wrong. It's proven in many studies that single parent families and other nontraditional family constructs have actually been a burden on society. Allowing gay marriage will only increase that burden.
6. It is not conclusively proven that homosexual families are not harmful to the children they are raising.
7. Homosexuals are predisposed to higher rates of personality disorders, character "quirks", and suicidal tendencies. "Quirks" were defined as compulsive obsessive disorder (particularly in regards to hygiene and appearance), vindictiveness, and irritability.
8. Homosexuals are predisposed to higher rates of STD infection and transmission.
9. Homosexuals practice promiscuity and casual sex at much higher rates than heterosexuals do.
10. Homosexuals wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate homosexuality.
1. Homosexuals currently have all the same rights as heterosexuals. Homosexuals only want "special rights". Homosexual marriage and adoption are "special rights". They are not rights that are being protected, but rights that are being created. Homosexual marriage has never existed before the gay rights movement. It would be wrong to give homosexuals "special rights".
2. Homosexuality does not demonstrate a clear advantage to society and/or the government and should therefore not be supported.
3. Heterosexuality is the tried and true method for raising children. Children need a mother and father, and thus children are best raised in a heterosexual family.
4. The purpose of marriage is for procreation and as an institution within which to raise children, and as homosexuals are incapable of reproducing on their own, they are not entitled to it, or the rights and benefits inherent within it.
5. Allowing homosexual marriage and adoption will further degrade the moral fabric of society by further degrading the concepts of a marriage and family. The traditional nuclear family is the ideal, and abandoning that concept is wrong. It's proven in many studies that single parent families and other nontraditional family constructs have actually been a burden on society. Allowing gay marriage will only increase that burden.
6. It is not conclusively proven that homosexual families are not harmful to the children they are raising.
7. Homosexuals are predisposed to higher rates of personality disorders, character "quirks", and suicidal tendencies. "Quirks" were defined as compulsive obsessive disorder (particularly in regards to hygiene and appearance), vindictiveness, and irritability.
8. Homosexuals are predisposed to higher rates of STD infection and transmission.
9. Homosexuals practice promiscuity and casual sex at much higher rates than heterosexuals do.
10. Homosexuals wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate homosexuality.
S
Shai Gar
They aren't special rights. There are only two rights; The right to take whatever you can, the right to defend whatever you can.
Heterosexuality does not demonstrate a clear advantage to society and/or the government and should therefore not be supported.
Very True.
Religious argument. Valid given that Marriage was actually created by religions and is their intellectual property. Those benefits better only be spiritual since most of us live within nations that separate church and state.
Yeah, I'm thinking that putting capitalism above morality at any point degrades society, and since this is a traditional USA argument, I'm going to further argue wars for profit as degrading society more than gayness.
It is not conclusively proven that eating apples is not harmful to the children who are eating them.
Wrong. Any minority might feel the latter two strongly, any NT might be classed as the first three. Any Otaku might be .... WOULD be considered to have bad hygiene and appearance ***prayer*pleasedon'tshowmeanotherobesebitchwearingahalleberrycatwomansuit**.
Completely wrong. Given my response below, and the stupid nature of morons having sex without STI or STD Protection (condoms), Aids is much higher risk of spreading amongst heterosexuals (one reason why I most definitely get myself checked every fortnight even though I don't have sex any more).
Bullshit, it's equal percentages of promiscuity. Since Homosexuality is most definitely a small minority, Heterosexuals practice far faarrr more than Homosexuals do.
Religious bigots wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate religious bigotry
Fanatical Nationalists wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate fanatical nationalism
Mr Squiggle wishes to impose his point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate Mr Squiggles.
ShaiGar said:
Hm...I think you might be imposing your own value judgments there.
Heterosexuality does not demonstrate a clear advantage to society and/or the government and should therefore not be supported.[/quote:acp8289n]
I'm afraid I have to disagree. The advantage of heterosexuality is children.
Wrong. Any minority might feel the latter two strongly, any NT might be classed as the first three. Any Otaku might be .... WOULD be considered to have bad hygiene and appearance ***prayer*pleasedon'tshowmeanotherobesebitchwearingahalleberrycatwomansuit**.[/quote:acp8289n]
:mrgreen: *goes off looking for more neko chicks to post*
Completely wrong. Given my response below, and the stupid nature of morons having sex without STI or STD Protection (condoms), Aids is much higher risk of spreading amongst heterosexuals (one reason why I most definitely get myself checked every fortnight even though I don't have sex any more).[/quote:acp8289n]
Yes, even though HIV is spread most easily via anal sex, heterosexual women make up the most new cases of infection.
Bullshit, it's equal percentages of promiscuity. Since Homosexuality is most definitely a small minority, Heterosexuals practice far faarrr more than Homosexuals do.[/quote:acp8289n]
Still, homosexuals account for a vastly higher rate within their group than heterosexuals do within theirs.
Religious bigots wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate religious bigotry
Fanatical Nationalists wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate fanatical nationalism
Mr Squiggle wishes to impose his point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate Mr Squiggles.[/quote:acp8289n]
Poor Mr. Squiggles. Whatever will he do.
S
Shai Gar
Hm...I think you might be imposing your own value judgments there. [/quote:l0bjy8gq]
No, I'm stripping back "Rights" to whatever a person actually has inherently. It's the laws of the savage garden. We're animals. Anything else is idealism.
Heterosexuality does not demonstrate a clear advantage to society and/or the government and should therefore not be supported.[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
I'm afraid I have to disagree. The advantage of heterosexuality is children. [/quote:l0bjy8gq]
It says CLEAR advantage. Unless the government consists of pedophiles, children remain liabilities until they become wage earners and tax payers.
Wrong. Any minority might feel the latter two strongly, any NT might be classed as the first three. Any Otaku might be .... WOULD be considered to have bad hygiene and appearance ***prayer*pleasedon'tshowmeanotherobesebitchwearingahalleberrycatwomansuit**.[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
:mrgreen: *goes off looking for more neko chicks to post*[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
Don't you fucking dare!
Completely wrong. Given my response below, and the stupid nature of morons having sex without STI or STD Protection (condoms), Aids is much higher risk of spreading amongst heterosexuals (one reason why I most definitely get myself checked every fortnight even though I don't have sex any more).[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
Yes, even though HIV is spread most easily via anal sex, heterosexual women make up the most new cases of infection. [/quote:l0bjy8gq]
Myth. It's most easily spread through blood transfusions. It's most commonly spread through any sort of fluid transaction.
Bullshit, it's equal percentages of promiscuity. Since Homosexuality is most definitely a small minority, Heterosexuals practice far faarrr more than Homosexuals do.[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
Still, homosexuals account for a vastly higher rate within their group than heterosexuals do within theirs. [/quote:l0bjy8gq]
And yet percentages hold that Heterosexuality is worse.
Religious bigots wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate religious bigotry
Fanatical Nationalists wish to impose their point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate fanatical nationalism
Mr Squiggle wishes to impose his point of view, while not respecting the right of others to have a point of view that does not accept or tolerate Mr Squiggles.[/quote:l0bjy8gq]
Poor Mr. Squiggles. Whatever will he do.[/quote:l0bjy8gq][/quote]
Form a lobby group probably.