Has the experience of being an INFJ changed for the better?

[Norwich]

Societies everywhere have changed over the last several decades. One thing I have noticed in my culture is a tendency to recognize a broader range of emotions. When I was young, girls were strongly discouraged from expressing anger and any expression of assertiveness resulted in the label of "bitch." It seems boys were discouraged from feeling anything other than anger or happiness. And most definitely, they should never admit to being hurt. Many have worked to change this injustice and I want to believe the results have been positive.

For me, trying to deny just some of my emotions was futile. It seemed simpler to deny them all. I'm sure it poses no difficulty to imagine the dysfunction that followed. So I'm wondering, would it be easier to be born an INFJ today? If so, what are the other changes that have occurred to make a more positive experience possible.

 

[randomsomeone]

The schools did an evaluation of each student when I was in the second grade, this to determine the best route for educational opportunities. My mother said when I got out of the counsellor's office he simply said, "Don't ever try to change that boy." She did not, nor did my dad. This meant that whatever "I" was was more nurtured than not.

Being an INFJ meant, for me, making connections and deep life decisions/alignments in my teen years...decisions that unfolded marvelously in my life through the decades. I am now in my mid-50s.

It seems rather noisy these days, and being askew from mass culture may be a terrifying prospect. I think I had an easier time of it than I would now.

 

[bickelz]

Depends on where you look. I know that in sports world, where I grew up in, we were told to not show emotion. Actually told, irl.

If you're an angsty teenager who plays in a punk band, emotions are accepted.

 

[detectivepope]

Well in comes down to not giving a fuck and express what you want. INFJ's in general worry like stupid about what they should and shouldn't show emotionally. The modern day has liberated the INFJ as education, access and acceptance are an all time high. Imagine been internal but no matter what you were defined by social division and tradition to never let it out or be an individual. If I were born even 30 years earlier I would have gone insane or killed myself.

 

[Norwich]

It seems rather noisy these days, and being askew from mass culture may be a terrifying prospect. I think I had an easier time of it than I would now.

Good point. With more media, there is probably even more perceived pressure to be a member of the in-crowd. :tsk:

Depends on where you look. I know that in sports world, where I grew up in, we were told to not show emotion. Actually told, irl.

That sucks! I was hoping things had changed across the board.

 

[Kgal]

Societies everywhere have changed over the last several decades. One thing I have noticed in my culture is a tendency to recognize a broader range of emotions. When I was young, girls were strongly discouraged from expressing anger and any expression of assertiveness resulted in the label of "bitch." It seems boys were discouraged from feeling anything other than anger or happiness. And most definitely, they should never admit to being hurt. Many have worked to change this injustice and I want to believe the results have been positive.

For me, trying to deny just some of my emotions was futile. It seemed simpler to deny them all. I'm sure it poses no difficulty to imagine the dysfunction that followed. So I'm wondering, would it be easier to be born an INFJ today? If so, what are the other changes that have occurred to make a more positive experience possible.

I find that an encouraging observation.

I'm not sure I see it in a positive light. The media seems to encourage almost everyone to be angry and indignant whenever they feel slighted or injured. In that sense, females can show anger without any social curtailment.

But if this forum is any indication of what INFJs are dealing with out there irl - then I'd say no - it's not better.

Also - if I look at what I had for choices in employment over the last 15 years or so - I'd say the job field can be very limiting to the INFJ's true character and abilities.

Bullies seem more prevalent as well. (Although it might be because my "Injustice" radar has grown exponentially along with the population. hwell Even one of the cartoons I follow had a strip yesterday and today dealing with Bullies. There are social work CEU's one can get by attending seminars on Bullying. If anyone is going to be the brunt of that kind of behavior - then I'm guessing it'll be an INFJ because we're so opposed to confrontation.

Another thought: Let's say the culture encourages females to show their anger and males to show their sadness. There still is nothing taught in the schools as to how to deal with said anger/sadness.
I'm not sure we're any better off...

 

[Honey]

I was going to make a post about being an INFJ and my own unpopularity with others but this thread seems to be getting at the essence of what I wanted to explore.

I think it is generally harder to be an INFJ these days. I think that as an INFJ my qualities are not that admired. I am what could be described as really, really polite, I value harmony highly, and I am perhaps naturally overly considerate of others, I cannot be mean to others without significant stress to myself as well. However, a series of experiences over the last few years have convinced me that most people have more respect for people who are somewhat less "nice" than I am.

I have been forced to become more consistently assertive, and in the past where I would have allowed certain small slights and offences against me to past now I do not allow anything like that to past by at all, I am on top of it like a light. Modern societies is full of more people with deep insecurities, poor upbringing and so forth who take the easy route to feeling better about themselves by trying to bully/victimise others and INFJs will have to deal with these kinds of people frequently and that can be stressful for us because of our love of harmony and belief that others should be reasonable and rational. I think people even bullies respond better to the strength that assertiveness implies so there is at least a cure for that. I also derive quite a lot a pleasure from having the people who tried to harass me gradually, through "re-training", become somewhat afraid of me . "Nice" which INFJs are just seem like weakness to a lot of people these days and we therefore can seem like easy targets for those type of persons.

Then most societies now seem to think Introversion is some type of pathology which I do not think was so in the past.

The career issue for INFJ is also a difficult matter. I do not think there are many well paying careers for which INFJs are naturally suited. Most careers are suitable mainly for sensors and NTs IMO. Careers like Psychology, Social Work etc which are more suitable for us are rather low paying or over populated and filled with truly lost, bitchy SF types. Also, I think 9-5 jobs in the seemingly oppressive enviroments of most workplaces isn't compatible with our personalities. Then there is the long commute to many places of work which can add to our stress.

Romantically, I do not think we are as valued either. Most men seem to suffer from a form of stockholm syndrome I think and really like over assertive 'bitchy' women or doormats on the other hand which rule out INFJs who tend not to fall in either of those categories. The fortunes of the INFJ man might be improving as some women these days claim to like sensitive men. I am not sure but I think most women say one thing but deep inside desires a alpha male. I do think the future for INFJs will be brighter though and I will go into why in my next post.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

Careers like Psychology, Social Work etc which are more suitable for us are rather low paying or over populated and filled with truly lost, bitchy SF types.

I'm a lost, bitchy SF type in a career for which you are better-suited! Pleased to meet you!

 

[Lerxst]

Even the difference between my growing up in the 80's and others growing up today, I can see that things may not have changed for the better. It seems that back then, each event and situation that unfolded was its own little island that you could do with whatever you wanted. If it was a good occasion, you could bring it with you (emotionally speaking) and if it was a bad occasion, you could leave it behind. IE - If Jr High School was a nightmare, High School was a fresh(er) start where you were on more even terms with your classmates.

Today those barriers seem to be removed and each event seems to bleed over into one another. You have the Internet, social networking sites, cell phones, etc. People always seem to be in constant contact with each other and there's no way to escape it.

As an adult, sure, I think this can be a good thing. As a kid growing up, I would have hated it with a passion! There were a lot of past events that would have been held against me if news spread as quickly as it does today. I would have been known as "that kid who..." throughout most of my formative years if people were as connected back then as they are today.

I would say for an INFJ that likes privacy and needs some alone/recharge time, the lifestyle of always being "on" would be overwhelming. Not to mention what would happen if one does try to "recharge". I was never that popular growing up - never liked parties or social gatherings. I can see how that divide would only grow nowadays for a person who liked to be alone while the rest of the world was all plugged in to one another.

 

[Norwich]

Bullies seem more prevalent as well. (Although it might be because my "Injustice" radar has grown exponentially along with the population. hwell Even one of the cartoons I follow had a strip yesterday and today dealing with Bullies. There are social work CEU's one can get by attending seminars on Bullying. If anyone is going to be the brunt of that kind of behavior - then I'm guessing it'll be an INFJ because we're so opposed to confrontation.

I was hoping that the number of bullies hadn't increased. But instead the awareness of bullying and the consequences of such behavior. I know that at my daughter's school they have very specific policies in place to deal with bullying. Of course with the internet and cell phones, there are even more venues for the bullies to practice in. And to make things worse, the ones I mentioned are beyond the schools authority.

Another thought: Let's say the culture encourages females to show their anger and males to show their sadness. There still is nothing taught in the schools as to how to deal with said anger/sadness.

True. Yet, it does seem like some progress has been made. Before one can deal with or process their emotions, they must first recognize them.

I think that as an INFJ my qualities are not that admired. I am what could be described as really, really polite, I value harmony highly, and I am perhaps naturally overly considerate of others, I cannot be mean to others without significant stress to myself as well. However, a series of experiences over the last few years have convinced me that most people have more respect for people who are somewhat less "nice" than I am.

Yeah, a friend and I were talking not to long ago about this. In general it seems that people are less nice than when we were younger. And as an INFJ, this perceived hostility can be hard to bear.

The career issue for INFJ is also a difficult matter. I do not think there are many well paying careers for which INFJs are naturally suited.

I would agree, however it's been this way since I first went into the work force.

back then, each event and situation that unfolded was its own little island that you could do with whatever you wanted. If it was a good occasion, you could bring it with you (emotionally speaking) and if it was a bad occasion, you could leave it behind. IE - If Jr High School was a nightmare, High School was a fresh(er) start where you were on more even terms with your classmates.

Another really good point that I hadn't considered.

I do think the future for INFJs will be brighter though and I will go into why in my next post.

I'm really looking forward to that. As it stands, after reading through this thread, it seems the future looks pretty dismal for an INFJ.

 

[lantern]

I feel more at ease reading about INFJ typology, but I'm not like a lot of you it seems. Of course everyone is an exception to something. I am the typical INFJ cold on the outside fuzzy on the inside, but I don't come off 'nice' or fuzzy to most people are intimidated by me. I don't try to do this, it just happens. I like eye contact. Most people don't it seems.

I look at life sometimes as needing to put on your face/mask (what have you) and pretend you're an ESFJ or something pleasant haha. To be honest, I'm slightly ashamed of this, but in public, sometimes I pretend I'm my ESFJ friend. It just makes things easier. I find it easy to imitate and mimic people. I also like to hide who I really am, but it works...I seem to be able to be more sociable and friendly and conceal my secret identity.

Though I'm still convinced my smile looks like I'm going to eat someone's child.

I keep myself pretty private online, I try not to "let the edges bleed" of private and personal life. It makes me feel better. I'm not super-connected and crackberry loving. I like it this way. I choose to limit my interactions with people.

In the end it's about what you value about yourself. Kindness is an extremely difficult thing to possess and give. I think sometimes we're just a bit ahead of the curve with other people and they don't value our traits yet, but in time they might.

I wouldn't worry about what other people value. You need to be happy with yourself. I think there are a lot of career choices for INFJs. And if you don't like your options, make your own job and become self employed. Make your own place for yourself in the world. Don't just complain about how things are, change them. (Okay maybe easier said than done, I admit)

In terms of romantically, we're rare and valued. It's just like anyone else, it takes a specific person to be able to handle our intensity and passion. The right one will come, there are a lot of losers out there.

And it's probably better if you don't say 'it's hard to be me' because then your mind will make it that way, change your thinking. It is difficult to be a human being in our society. Everyone has challenges. Be thankful for what you have, but recognise that some things are challenges. Maybe change your thought pattern to 'it's difficult to be me sometimes, but I have talents and abilities that are valuable' or something like that. This could just be a difficult period in your life, it will get better. I promise

Maybe I will be cheesy and take this moment to share my mantra,

Please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to always know the difference.

So in summary of this rambling, everyone has something difficult to overcome in their life. It seems like acceptance is a big one for INFJs. But when you accept yourself for being who you are, flaws and talents, then acceptance from others becomes unimportant, and will just naturally happen because it doesn't bother you anymore

 

[Trifoilum]

Slightly.

I mean, in the US world it seems people are...slightly less demeaned or brought down in showing emotions; and for career opportunities, more jobs are opened (in type, not amount) for INFJs, even if it's still not enough.
And deviations from the society norm, even if it's not much, were slowly gaining power and recognitions.

But, I would say, not yet. Not much better, IMO.

 

[Resonance]

Forget emotions: kids these days have their imaginations stamped out. It's gradually improving in some areas and worsening much more quickly in others. I think this is a far more important crime than the emotional oppression.

But it's true, being angry or assertive still gets you called a bitch, and from what I can tell, for men anything BUT anger and assertiveness still gets you called a pussy. But it helps a lot when others stand up for you. 'Oh, so just because she doesn't like you spreading shit about her, that makes her a bitch? Fuck you.' So although the pressure is still there, it's not as suffocating because there is support.

So on average, I'd say it's about even.