[PUG] All white people are racist and must confront their racism

[slant]

I'm curious about the relevance this particular case, because the artist who created the cake and whose head is used in the installation is not exactly white:

Are you saying that the culture minister is racist because she participated in the event created by Mr. Linde in order to bring attention to the issue of female genital mutilation?[/QUOTE

People of color can have internalized racism, too. And not only that, but this is just a symptom of the rampant racism in sweden. For example:

That's a picture from the 2012 pride festival in stockholm, this shit happens all the time there;

and here are articles from people of color detesting what he is doing...one black person does not speak for all people of color, duh:
Apparently Black Woman Mutilation In Black Face Makes Great Art and Dessert

VOICES: MAKODE AJ LINDE AND THAT CAKE

The missing ingredient in Sweden’s racist-misogynist cake
[h=1]Artist Makode Linde is a Confused Racist Mulatto[/h]

 

[slant]

Yeah, you did a bit of work there to find all that, so I guess I'd suspect there's a need for some sort of confirmation of your thinking driving this.

Consequently I dont think there's anything to discuss, I told you I'm not racist and that'd invalidate your generalisation, you dont appear to want to take my word for that, which is alright. Just leaves no room what so ever for discussion.

#hardcore racist

 

[Gktr]

People of color can have internalized racism, too. And not only that, but this is just a symptom of the rampant racism in sweden. For example:
View attachment 19785
That's a picture from the 2012 pride festival in stockholm, this shit happens all the time there;

I would argue that it doesn't happen all the time. It was very newsworthy when it happened, and it ended in lawsuits.

Racism is a real issue, and institutionalized racism does exist, but one of the dangers you have to be mindful of when you're trying to bring about social change is that you might get caught up in instances that have nothing to do with the injustice you're fighting. I don't know what motivated those people to dress up like that, but I find it difficult to believe that people participating in a Pride Festival are particularly bigoted. Also, three people in questionable costumes out of 600,000 is not a whole lot, and it hardly qualifies as "rampant racism."

 

[the]

One of the most striking things I have read as I have been studying true history and culture is something ...

What is true history and how do we know the difference between true history and regular history?

 

[La Sagna]

[MENTION=933]Seraphim[/MENTION]
I do believe it is very different in the US generally and particularly in the Southern US than it is in some other parts of the world. Although racism has always existed in Canada it has always been much more subtle than it has been in the US. I have heard it said though that the subtle kind is no better and I can to some degree understand but even though subtle racism is harmful and needs to dissappear I cannot equate it to the racial violence that is still sometimes happening in the US (Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis).

Our history of racism is very different here. The only reported lynching in Canada in the last 150 years or so was done by Americans and they lynched an aboriginal boy:

Between 1882 and 1968 there were 4,742 lynchings in the United States. In Canada during the same period there was one—the hanging of Louie Sam, a member of the Stó:lo tribe.

Louie Sam (1870? – February 24, 1884) was a Stó:lō youth from native village near Abbotsford, British Columbia who was lynched by an American mob.

Sam was 14 at the time these events occurred. He had been accused of the murder of James Bell, a shopkeeper in Nooksack (today Whatcom County, Washington). The people of his band, today the Sumas First Nation at Kilgard turned him over to the B.C. government to settle the matter.

Following this, an angry mob crossed the border into Canada on February 24 and captured Sam, who had been in the custody of a B.C. deputy. They then hanged him from a tree close to the U.S. border.

A subsequent investigation by Canadian authorities strongly suggests that Sam was innocent, and that the likely murderers were two white Americans who were leaders of the lynch mob. [1] They were William Osterman, the Nooksack telegraph operator who took over Bell's business, and David Harkness, who at the time of Bell's murder was living with Bell's estranged wife. Neither man was ever prosecuted. [2]

On March 1, 2006, the Washington State Senate and House of Representatives approved a resolution stating that "through this resolution, the Senate joins its peers in the government of British Columbia, acknowledging the unfortunate historical injustice to Louie Sam and the proud Stó:lō people."

I have to say that in this part of the world (Toronto and area) is very different than most places. We are such a mix of races that if you live here and don't want to be associated with other races you would have a very difficult time:

Toronto's racial diversity

Racial DiversityToronto, with a population of 2.79 million people (5.5 million in the GTA - Greater Toronto Area) is heralded as one of the most multicultural cities in the world and is ranked as the safest large metropolitan area in North America by Places Rated Almanac. Over 140 languages and dialects are spoken here, and just over 30 per cent of Toronto residents speak a language other than English or French at home.


•Half of Toronto's population (1,237,720) was born outside of Canada, up from 48 per cent in 1996.


•47 per cent of Toronto's population (1,162,635 people) reported themselves as being part of a visible minority, up from 42.8 per cent (1,051,125) in 2001.


•The top five visible minority groups in Toronto were:


•South Asian at 298,372 or 12.0 per cent of our population;
•Chinese at 283,075 or 11.4 per cent;
•Black at 208,555 or 8.4 per cent;
•Filipino at 102,555 or 4.1 per cent;
•Latin American at 64,860 or 2.6 per cent.



•Toronto's rich multi-cultural diversity is expressed by the more than 200 distinct ethnic origins residents identified in their response to the 2006 Census.


Language
•Toronto remains a mosaic of many languages. In 2006, forty-seven percent of the population had a mother tongue in a language other than English or French.

I just wanted to illustrate that racism is a worldwide phenomenon but it takes many different forms and does not always resemble the white on black racism that is a huge issue in your part of the world.

I stated that I believe Canada's racism problem is more with the way aboriginal people are treated and that is definitely systemic.

Hundreds of aboriginal women have been murdered and have gone missing in Canada without the outcry that would have happened if they had been middle-class white women:

http://www.culturalsurvival.org/pub...ing-justice-canada-s-500-missing-native-women

Aboriginals are also a disproprotionately high number of incarcerated individuals in this country:

http://www.oci-bec.gc.ca/cnt/rpt/oth-aut/oth-aut20121022info-eng.aspx

 

[Lark]

#hardcore racist

Alright, I hope you dont run into any of the genuine article if you believe that.

 

[the]

White privilege is liking watermelon but not having to admit it.

 

[sprinkles]

Premise of thread is racist.

 

[bamf]

Racism is an institution of society, and anyone who grows up in a society in which racism exists is indoctrinated with it. One can fight against the indoctrination, but one cannot completely escape. Everyone can (and probably does) encounter bigotry, but being white and jumped in a nearly all-black school isn't racism or "reverse racism." That's not to say it's less "bad" or anything of that nature. It's a horrible offense against a person and is rooted in bigotry, fear, and hatred. However, it just simply isn't racism. Again, not trying to downplay the horrendous nature of the events, but it's not institutionalized in our society. Murder isn't murder unless someone is murdered. Racism isn't racism unless it's institutionalized.

 

[sprinkles]

Racism is an institution of society, and anyone who grows up in a society in which racism exists is indoctrinated with it. One can fight against the indoctrination, but one cannot completely escape. Everyone can (and probably does) encounter bigotry, but being white and jumped in a nearly all-black school isn't racism or "reverse racism." That's not to say it's less "bad" or anything of that nature. It's a horrible offense against a person and is rooted in bigotry, fear, and hatred. However, it just simply isn't racism. Again, not trying to downplay the horrendous nature of the events, but it's not institutionalized in our society. Murder isn't murder unless someone is murdered. Racism isn't racism unless it's institutionalized.

Bullshit.

If saying "all x people are x" is not racist then I don't know what the fuck is.

 

[bamf]

Bullshit.

If saying "all x people are x" is not racist then I don't know what the fuck is.

Uhhh, it's bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and a whole host of other things?

 

[sprinkles]

Uhhh, it's bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and a whole host of other things?

And do we want to enable that here?

 

[sprinkles]

Additionally I will say that none of this has to do with being white. That's your institutionalization right there, [MENTION=1009]bamf[/MENTION]

The fact of the matter is, that there is no other race that has as much privilege as the white person and if we as whites do not discuss, separate from other racial groups and the discrimination they have done, our own white racism and passive and active racism there can never be progress. Whites are most responsible for the suppression of other racial groups through passive racism and we must analyze that. What is the cause of this? How can we work together to prevent this and change society? This is the discussion we must have and the discussion I want to foster and nurture in our communities.

That's basically saying that by being born with a skin color, you're automatically responsible for some shit.

Racism will not go away as long as you're separating yourself based on a facet that shouldn't determine anything really. Treating 'whites' as a group with inherent responsibilities to be 'good white people instead of typical racist white people' is BS in my opinion and does not help.

You are responsible for you because you do what you do, not because of your skin. If you want to fight racism then do it because it is right, not because you are white.

 

[WellNoWonder]

Uhhh, it's bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and a whole host of other things?

And do we want to enable that here?

Honestly, if this is the first time you have been exposed to some of the ideas in Black separatism you should get out more. Slant was only alluding to the ideas not embracing them or promoting them. I am quite sure she is also aware of the heavy doses of misogyny that is coupled with many of those ideas.

It is misguided to believe our racial problems are all on the road to being ironed out with a little more social progression.

This is the fucking shit that irritates me about so called progressives.

We can talk all day long about being progressive and liberal, and woot the fuck blah blah.... do we know our fellow human is suffering from the shit of yesteryear? Will you "march" 60s style for it? People were fucking killed for believing in human rights.

and I wonder, why are people afraid of black separatists? it's not like they all up in the SCOTUS, influencing decisions.

are you really afraid? They are loud and oh.... they're black. they don't run corporations. they're not CEOs. there's no military contracts. prison profits... no comment.

I will say it blatantly now, check the racism. there's no need or time for it

and this is not directed to yall in particular, just a rant cuz I'm annoyed with the bullshit

 

[slant]

What is true history and how do we know the difference between true history and regular history?

This is a profound question. I can't give an absolute answer.

But what I can say is I follow closely to the phrase "History is written by the victors". So it should be no surprise that the history we are taught to be true, that which is unquestioned, is often only the case because of people rewriting history and the victors re-enforcing those historical accounts. When you have multiple sides to an issue you just have to read all sides and determine what to believe based on that. Most people DON'T read all sides of history, #1. And #2, we have to ask ourselves, are people, particularly white people who historically and still continue to benefit from institutionalized racism- are we capable of looking past our own self interest and admitting that we have and are doing some pretty fucked up things, and that actually, white people are not the holders of all knowledge and creator of all things? I don't think a lot of us are willing to move past that pont, whether it's subconscious or a deliberate, belligerent asshattery thing.

 

[sprinkles]

This is the fucking shit that irritates me about so called progressives.

We can talk all day long about being progressive and liberal, and woot the fuck blah blah.... do we know our fellow human is suffering from the shit of yesteryear? Will you "march" 60s style for it? People were fucking killed for believing in human rights.

and I wonder, why are people afraid of black separatists? it's not like they all up in the SCOTUS, influencing decisions.

are you really afraid? They are loud and oh.... they're black. they don't run corporations. they're not CEOs. there's no military contracts. prison profits... no comment.

I will say it blatantly now, check the racism. there's no need or time for it

and this is not directed to yall in particular, just a rant cuz I'm annoyed with the bullshit

It's not about being progressive and liberal.

I'm all for fixing problems that people still suffer from due to actions in the past. I am NOT for telling people that they're responsible for doing so based solely on their skin color.

I believe in doing the right thing. I don't believe in doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Racism is an institution of society, and anyone who grows up in a society in which racism exists is indoctrinated with it. One can fight against the indoctrination, but one cannot completely escape. Everyone can (and probably does) encounter bigotry, but being white and jumped in a nearly all-black school isn't racism or "reverse racism." That's not to say it's less "bad" or anything of that nature. It's a horrible offense against a person and is rooted in bigotry, fear, and hatred. However, it just simply isn't racism. Again, not trying to downplay the horrendous nature of the events, but it's not institutionalized in our society. Murder isn't murder unless someone is murdered. Racism isn't racism unless it's institutionalized.

That's retarded.

 

[WellNoWonder]

Uhhh, it's bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and a whole host of other things?

And do we want to enable that here?

It's not about being progressive and liberal.

I'm all for fixing problems that people still suffer from due to actions in the past. I am NOT for telling people that they're responsible for doing so based solely on their skin color.

I believe in doing the right thing. I don't believe in doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

What is the wrong reason?

 

[WellNoWonder]

That's retarded.

why?

 

[sprinkles]

What is the wrong reason?

The wrong reason is the premise that white people are somehow obligated based on the fact they are white, and if they don't do something they are a "passive racist".

This reasoning is also akin to saying that if you don't fight for women's rights you're a passive misogynist or that if you don't donate to charity you're passively causing people to starve to death or if you don't support gay rights you're passively a homophobe... list goes on.

The premise itself would be frowned upon if it were applied elsewhere because it is a faulty premise to begin with.