What makes us INFJ?
- Thread starter Questingpoet
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Good questions, QP! People are always asking me how I 'came out so well with everything you've been through.' I don't know. Prayer? Belief in the greater good of people? Planning for a future without suffering? Being an INFJ? Hard to say!
Likewise, people see me as resilient and strong, but I see myself as deeply flawed, doing the best I can within my limitations, like we all do - neither better nor worse than anyone else. Is this INFJ, or simply low self-esteem?
Likewise, people see me as resilient and strong, but I see myself as deeply flawed, doing the best I can within my limitations, like we all do - neither better nor worse than anyone else. Is this INFJ, or simply low self-esteem?
All in all, I loved my childhood. Nothing too dramatic there. I always felt a little odd, couldn't put my finger to it. I also felt extremely vulnerable to critique and people... Their feelings caused me severe stress, I do remember (I got vibes and they affected me). I was at a border of OCD at one point - when I was 6-8 years old, huge need to control, I was very stressed about everything, although a happy kid (kept all to myself and probably didn't seem like it). I prayed every night for everyone I could remember - if I forgot them, I somehow reasoned if something happened to them, it was on me, feared bacteria, death - just, losing control. Thought everything would be fine as long and only as I could control everything. Very annoying then, obsessed with order almost.
I felt really bad if people hurt my feelings, I guess I had the tough exterior going on. As a kid I was more like an INTJ with an odd emphatic streak. I felt like a robot - just observing the world and the people but not feeling like I was one of them. But looking back at homevideos I look so lively and up-beat - which I probably am to this day which is weird because it's not at all matching my internal perception.
I'm the youngest, and I do feel like it's impacted me in making me strong-willed, and stubborn.
Unless I had all the things to keep me grounded (hobbies) and kept me socialising with people I think I would've just drifted off completely. I wasn't very "nice", and I certainly was in my own world, but I always, throughout my childhood, had friends who kind of clinged on to me ("the best friend"). I don't know how relevant that is, but without that I would've been alone a lot, in my fantasies. It probably caused me to be more aware of the social dynamics and status in some way. Be part of the Game, in a sense.
EDIT: And I totally agree what's been said about infj ... I don't know, resiliance? I know a marvelous person who types as INFJ and I feel so amazed by her strength (though she doesn't see it that way). All of the people I consider friends are somehow survivors in their own way, heros, damaged, bruised, but still on the dry land, even if they're gasping. It's unbeliavable to me, and I respect it. Cliche but true: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Maybe it's because of that, that I do not pigeonhole this to a MBTI specific little box, I think all the types and PEOPLE are capable of this in their own individual ways, and I've witnessed it in so many people. INFJ's are very self-aware (introspective) and future-orientated (N) - maybe that's advantage (and also disadvantage) when we're forced to deal with things.
I felt really bad if people hurt my feelings, I guess I had the tough exterior going on. As a kid I was more like an INTJ with an odd emphatic streak. I felt like a robot - just observing the world and the people but not feeling like I was one of them. But looking back at homevideos I look so lively and up-beat - which I probably am to this day which is weird because it's not at all matching my internal perception.
I'm the youngest, and I do feel like it's impacted me in making me strong-willed, and stubborn.
Unless I had all the things to keep me grounded (hobbies) and kept me socialising with people I think I would've just drifted off completely. I wasn't very "nice", and I certainly was in my own world, but I always, throughout my childhood, had friends who kind of clinged on to me ("the best friend"). I don't know how relevant that is, but without that I would've been alone a lot, in my fantasies. It probably caused me to be more aware of the social dynamics and status in some way. Be part of the Game, in a sense.
EDIT: And I totally agree what's been said about infj ... I don't know, resiliance? I know a marvelous person who types as INFJ and I feel so amazed by her strength (though she doesn't see it that way). All of the people I consider friends are somehow survivors in their own way, heros, damaged, bruised, but still on the dry land, even if they're gasping. It's unbeliavable to me, and I respect it. Cliche but true: "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Maybe it's because of that, that I do not pigeonhole this to a MBTI specific little box, I think all the types and PEOPLE are capable of this in their own individual ways, and I've witnessed it in so many people. INFJ's are very self-aware (introspective) and future-orientated (N) - maybe that's advantage (and also disadvantage) when we're forced to deal with things.
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I have a twin brother. We are alike in almost every way, except he is not an INFJ. He is an INT/FP.
We both ended up in the same career and have similar interests in THINGs. But our choice in people is very different.
Our childhood was relatively good. Two good parents. One very stable that grew up in bad situation. One very neurotic who grew up in a crazy situation. They provided a loving and caring home. Neither was particularly empathic nor understood what it meant to me. But they gave everything they had and then some: I had a good childhood.
We both ended up in the same career and have similar interests in THINGs. But our choice in people is very different.
Our childhood was relatively good. Two good parents. One very stable that grew up in bad situation. One very neurotic who grew up in a crazy situation. They provided a loving and caring home. Neither was particularly empathic nor understood what it meant to me. But they gave everything they had and then some: I had a good childhood.
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You can count me in on this one. My childhood was not the regular kind due to this empathy thing. The kids at school might say, "That teacher is mean! harumph" and then walk away. In my empathy fueled self at age 8 or 9 my thoughts would have been, "oh I see, I feel a lot of pain. The anger is innocent and I can't hate her even though I want to, or however I might have put it together at that time.
And sometimes I'd feel bad that I wasn't like the carefree other kids and I couldn't seem to just see the teacher; I felt her too. I felt jealous of the other kids for not feeling her pain and seeing that she needed to cry or scream. I would know when someone had reached their boiling point even before they did.
I knew instinctively when to remain silent and couldn't understand it when the other kids would continue to push buttons.
I wish I had understood intuition and empathy at an early age, taught to me by someone kind and gentle. When I'd try to talk about things that I felt inside people would just say I was crazy
I found a few teachers who spotted my empathy overdrive, understood and appreciated me. I just about worshipped the ground they walked on I can tell you.
oh that turned out to be quite a ramble lol
Wow, I can really relate to this! I was always quiet, well behaved and studious in class. Those teachers who "saw" me for who I was, really made me feel like they believed in me and were grateful for my respect that I showed them. And even now that I'm in class again as an adult, the same "boisterous" mature students still kinda rub me the wrong way.
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of course this is all my interpretation, there's plenty of room for error, but I agree with the notion that INFJ is something we must be born with. its the tools we are given, the way react to our life, not necessarily the content or subject matter of our lives themselves. I guess this means I'm more so arguing the nature side then the nurture side. of course your environment has major impacts on who you become, but I think those are what create the differences between us, and the INFJ characteristics we share are something more innate.
when it comes to the written word, I think thats only half true. I didn't read that much as a kid, but words still meant a lot to me, I think it has to do with the way our minds work. words are symbols for deeper meanings, and I think we use these to understand our world and ourselves, we seek the underlying meanings of things, the themes that tie everything together.
but I did play a lot of RPGs as a kid Final Fantasy and stuff. these imaginary, fictional worlds provided me with a world I could create in my mind which I could connect with easier than to the external extroverted world so incompatible with idealism like Siamese Cat mentioned. I think this is really similar to reading fiction novels as a kid, have all of us had experiences with imaginary creative worlds as children? I know even today I often rely on the symbols and themes that I grew up with as a kid to guide me.
when it comes to the written word, I think thats only half true. I didn't read that much as a kid, but words still meant a lot to me, I think it has to do with the way our minds work. words are symbols for deeper meanings, and I think we use these to understand our world and ourselves, we seek the underlying meanings of things, the themes that tie everything together.
but I did play a lot of RPGs as a kid
Final Fantasy and stuff. these imaginary, fictional worlds provided me with a world I could create in my mind which I could connect with easier than to the external extroverted world so incompatible with idealism like Siamese Cat mentioned. I think this is really similar to reading fiction novels as a kid, have all of us had experiences with imaginary creative worlds as children? I know even today I often rely on the symbols and themes that I grew up with as a kid to guide me.
Ria and Sumone, my experience was essentially the same as yours. It was a special kind of bond with my elders but alienating with peers. I'd say it was 50% my peers being annoyed with me, and 50% me being sad about feeling removed from emotional compatibility with them. But oddly enough, I wasn't quiet in class. I was overexcitable. Good teachers used to let me stand at my desk, because sitting would be too hard. But I was a devoted student.
I'd agree that my preferences was for making up imaginary worlds (writing RPGs, etc) as compared to reading. I had entire universes in my head where characters acted out my kid melodramas. I wrote my own RPGs and rulebooks etc. We didn't have the depth of computer art when I was a kid that we do now.
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Hello to all. I'm new here, as of today, but thought I'd add my thoughts on this too. I'll start with compliments to Questinqpoet for 'questing'. I think the INFJ's enter the world with such a high level of curiosity that even at a remarkably early age, their continuous question is 'why?' Why did my mother/teacher/friend/brother/sister/father do that? Why did I do that? Once you ask the 'why', it forces introversion to obtain answers, and from introversion, empathy is born. It's understanding ourselves that first allows us to understand others, I think. I know that in my life, I've been an obsessive 'reader' as long as I can remember. I even remember hiding under covers with a flashlight when I was only eight years old, reading books until way after the house was quiet around me. I think that reading obsession is just one expression of an eternal curiosity, because I can never feel 'sated' when it comes to information....there are always, always more questions, like my real driving need is to someday become a walking encyclopedia. And the focus of most of my curiosity is humanity.....what makes 'em tick, what pleases them, what breaks their hearts. I 'learned' to feel empathy, and it was at a very, very young age. I was the champion of the underdog; defender of the weak, and never, ever a 'joiner' because I just didn't fit in anywhere. I remember my parents sometimes looking at me with amazement at my insights into motivations. So, it's my belief that the INFJ is born with insatiable curiosity and a love of the puzzle of humanity, and that curious, curious love and fascination makes us delve for answers to questions other personality types never ask, and thus we become 'different'. And that 'different-ness' makes us loners, at times, and in my life, at least, leaves a deep, aching yearning to find someone just like me because most of the time I feel like an alien on a planet of some species other than mine. Or maybe I'm the human and they're the alien species....
Of course, it was pain too, that taught me empathy at a very young age. Or was it the empathy that caused the pain? Food for thought.....
.Of course, it was pain too, that taught me empathy at a very young age. Or was it the empathy that caused the pain? Food for thought.....
For me, it was a bit later. Sometime during first grade it started to click. My first big experience was when a girl in my school died, and then we held a birthday party and played games. No one seemed to sense the irony. And the teachers seemed to hope we were oblivious
I completely relate to that. At a summer camp I used to chase the bullies around with a log until they agreed to stop tormenting people. (Back then I was bigger than the other kids.)
When I was younger I used to wonder if I was a Cromagnon or Neanderthal.makes us loners, at times, and in my life, at least, leaves a deep, aching yearning to find someone just like me because most of the time I feel like an alien on a planet of some species other than mine. Or maybe I'm the human and they're the alien species...
Its tought being an INFJ male. Particularly a straight INFJ male. I don't know how many times I had people question my identity. They recognize me as as strange as I feel. But this got easier with age.
Now, I'm comfortable with who I am. I gave up trying to figure out why I'm a Neanderthal and focus on trying to grow more, even if it isn't valued by my peers.
How about you?
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I agree with the written word. Although I can't speak on everyone's behalf, I think what has helped shaped me to be who I am, INFJ or not, is perseverance, seeing the good through the bad, not giving up, and understanding a deeper meaning through life and suffering. Always hoping and looking for a better way, understanding, and answer keeps me going.
I'm so glad you are all out there and I'm not the only one : )
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Though I know I'll likely get flak for this in some way, I'll post it anyhow cause I know some of you will find it interesting.
http://www.kabalarians.com/
Put your name in the box on the left side of the page. I found it extremely accurate. Also, there are only so many descriptions possible, (combinations if you will) same as the types.
This is based in numerology (here's where I'll get the flak, cause this is a pseudo science), but the site is not a cult or something.
Consider it though, what do we get when we're first born? A name.
http://www.kabalarians.com/
Put your name in the box on the left side of the page. I found it extremely accurate. Also, there are only so many descriptions possible, (combinations if you will) same as the types.
This is based in numerology (here's where I'll get the flak, cause this is a pseudo science), but the site is not a cult or something.
Consider it though, what do we get when we're first born? A name.
No - you won't get flak for it at all! This link's been floating around the forum for a while, but it's nice to see it pop up, now and again. Several posts also relate to astrology and new ageisms...we're pretty open about different things here. So don't worry; we're all into different spiritual stuff.
Eh, I find it more scientific, but just "unpopular". it does have basic in the effect sound has on mind. Hell music is the best example of this, as does a constant discord. One can make you happy but the other drive you into rage. it kinda complicated in how the name related and that's where the science goes psuedo. I'd like to know how many people the descriptions are accurate for though.
Environment, hormones and genes, but note also that genes are dynamic throughout life, and not some static inheritance. They are modified through epigenetics, and exchanged through horizontal gene transfer. Whatever the factors, they are smooth and relative.
My guess is hormonal basis for Se/Si (strong/weak) people, and everything else is environment, i.e. how we order the functions, and do we escape from the physical S towards its counter-part the N. It is shaped very much by direct interaction with others. To a certain degree, it allows some flexibility in life. Meaning, we could reorder our functions to a few other types, but not to any other type. Also, when we reorder, we are less efficient than the natural ones. It just requires many more years of training the brain circuits, to become natural.
I support the claim that there are physical patterns in face and body structure among MBTI types. However, these patterns do not seem fundamental enough to be based on genetics. Rather, they are the superficial result of how the brain exercises the body and the face, including by triggering hormones, but not only.
Objectively speaking, our differences are so negligible, looked from the larger perspective of time; I can't believe they cause so much suffering, still. And so many people are treated worse than animals. Makes one prefer to have been born some animal instead.
My guess is hormonal basis for Se/Si (strong/weak) people, and everything else is environment, i.e. how we order the functions, and do we escape from the physical S towards its counter-part the N. It is shaped very much by direct interaction with others. To a certain degree, it allows some flexibility in life. Meaning, we could reorder our functions to a few other types, but not to any other type. Also, when we reorder, we are less efficient than the natural ones. It just requires many more years of training the brain circuits, to become natural.
I support the claim that there are physical patterns in face and body structure among MBTI types. However, these patterns do not seem fundamental enough to be based on genetics. Rather, they are the superficial result of how the brain exercises the body and the face, including by triggering hormones, but not only.
Objectively speaking, our differences are so negligible, looked from the larger perspective of time; I can't believe they cause so much suffering, still. And so many people are treated worse than animals. Makes one prefer to have been born some animal instead.
Interesting proposal, ENFP CAN BE SHY. I guess I'm a little more fatalistic because I see so many things between us that do not seem to be environmental. But its still hard to dissect. Still, I'll lean more towards genetics, just because of the evidence I have seen that some things are genetic that people don't normally associate with the field.