What Does It Take For God To Save A Sinner?
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
- Start date
No, that part is crystal clear to me. At least in that you've been consistent with it. But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about things like this:
According to what you've illustrated, the why of that should be entirely clear to you. But maybe that's a rhetorical question and you're illustrating that man can't do it on his own? Well nope:
What's that there? Looks to me like you're saying it is up to us. But wait there's more:
Well I'll do that and already have done. But according to you that shouldn't even be possible. However there's still more from you:
Is it really? What happened there? I thought there was no prerogative! But wait!!
This very statement contradicts itself right away! "When are you going to realize that?" As per your illustration, the answer to that is "NEVER, until God wills it so!"
Do you see? Probably not.
Yes, I agree. That seems to be the universal reaction.
But it has no basis in FACT. It's amateur psychology and psychoanalysis. And it simply isn't accurate at all.
It's amazing how the statement that "ALL HUMAN BEINGS other than CHRIST are NOTHING but SIN" can be taken as a PERSONAL INSULT!
And how is the statement that "those who do not have faith in Christ are going to hell", a personal attack?
That's a flat-out doctrinal statement.
That doesn't prove that I'm wrong for making such statements--it proves how LOST and CONFUSED people are.
You are right. You, most of all, are very lost and confused. I feel very sorry for you, but I do hope that maybe you will reflect on your Biblical studies until such time that you have a better understanding.
I see your point, but here's the source of the misunderstanding:
Man's inability to believe/understand/receive the Gospel is not an INTELLECTUAL problem but a MORAL one.
Man can UNDERSTAND the WORDS that are written in the Bible. In fact, even a CHILD can understand them.
But because man is EVIL and UNGODLY by nature, he CANNOT and WILL NOT RECEIVE them.
He will SUPRESS and DENY what it says, or else do all he can to avoid HEARING it--UNLESS GOD BREAKS his WILL.
Then and ONLY then will a sinner RECEIVE the things of God.
Does that help? Or is it still confusing?
The day you come to me and say, "SovereignGrace, I'm concerned about the state of my soul. I'm afraid I am lost, and I need to be saved. How can God save a sinner like me?"
The day you say that and mean it from the heart, I'll tell you all you want to know.
But at this point in time, you are nothing but a troll, and I have no desire to continue with you.
[MENTION=11142]SovereignGrace[/MENTION]
Why is stating your faith as an opinion insulting? Isn't that the purpose of having faith? Does one speak about having faith in gravity or mathematics? Why does your faith weaken by stating it as your opinion? Are ye of little faith?
Why is stating your faith as an opinion insulting? Isn't that the purpose of having faith? Does one speak about having faith in gravity or mathematics? Why does your faith weaken by stating it as your opinion? Are ye of little faith?
I know this concept. It's not that I've never heard it.
I'm not feeling it from you. That makes it difficult for me. You've said before to focus on the truth and not you, but I can't seem to extricate myself from that.
It's an honest question. Why don't you reflect on it. When I have an opinion, I have no problem stating it as such even if I feel very strongly about it. I don't think opinions are somehow invalid simply for being opinions.
If that's so, then why don't you start by admitting to your Lord that you're nothing but sin?
Then maybe you should confess to your Lord that you did not have the wisdom to choose him, but you know that he chose you first.
Then, you might want to actually start reading his Word, and submit to a pastor who preaches the Gospel.
You might think it sounds "spiritual" to say "I submit to my Lord." but if you won't submit to anyone else, then you are not submitted to the Lord.
Well, that sounds like a psychological problem.
You will have to find some way to stop focusing on me, and just focus on the truth itself.
I'll work on that. Maybe you should work on your faith and your ability to preach the gospel in an appropriate manner.
Well, I can help you with that, if you're willing to accept it.
I would be glad to help you find a good church.
Also, the link in the O.P. is a sermon by Don Fortner, one of the best preachers alive today.
Please just stop fighting, and accept some help.
You need it. And I can help you.
Can you imagine if we ended up as brothers in Christ?
Even after all this, it still could happen.
I'll stick to those who are better preachers than you and who don't appear to be blaspheming for their own ends. You've done enough damage already.
Come on man. Seriously, you're lost. And I'm trying to help you.
Don't be so stubborn. At least listen to the link in the OP.
Come on.
Just accept help when it comes your way.
Don't "look a gift-horse in the mouth."
It is a psychological problem for me.
And it's not that I just hate you. I try to give things due consideration. I really do. But it's not only just you because I find myself defending other stances which I don't even agree with.
I can't willingly get on board with this. But maybe you're right for all I know. And you are right that if this is the truth then I hate the truth. Not all truths are nice or convenient.
I'm not one to hide from truth. I dare truth to come and find me. If what you say is true then I'll have to suck it up even though I hate it because that's how truth is some times. If this is the truth then I will not be repentant on my own but if God is going to override that, then that's how it's going to have to be. It's not like I could fight it if it's the actual truth. It wouldn't be the first time I've faced a truth that I hate and had to be dragged into it tooth and nail. This is something that happens to a lot of people physically, let alone metaphysically.