We have a government agency devoted to groping old women and babies.

Personally I have no interest in being patted down or having a full body scan just for the sake of getting on a plane. I have no real fear of terrorism. I guess where I am from we aren't quite as hardcore in terms of security.We get a wand waved over us and that's pretty much it. It wouldn't shock me if at some point we ended up amping up our security as the USA has, but for the most part I honestly don't see the point.

If a terrorist wants to bomb a plane or some buildings they're going to find a way and I don't think full body scans and pat downs are going to prevent that. Not even close.
 
IndigoSensor said:
The media is just making a mountain out of molehills. It was an isolated incident, and honestly I was expecting that to happen at some point. It's unfortonate, but now that this has happened a standard can be set for dealing with staff who break ettiquite with these matter, and propmtly demote or fire them.
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If there were effective methods for tracking down and punishing the sources of leaks, TMZ wouldn't be thriving. Etiquette is not such a pressing concern when one can discreetly snap a photo of the scanner screen (no image-saving necessary) and upload the pictures to a database from a public IP.

Moderately famous people will make good targets. Major celebrities can fly in their own jets, but everyone else
 
TSA agents aren't allowed dosimeters... makes you wonder how much radiation is coming out of those things.
 
What the hell is wrong with the back scatter, unless you're particularly interested in blue ghost porn?
 
sandra_b said:
Personally I have no interest in being patted down or having a full body scan just for the sake of getting on a plane. I have no real fear of terrorism. I guess where I am from we aren't quite as hardcore in terms of security.We get a wand waved over us and that's pretty much it. It wouldn't shock me if at some point we ended up amping up our security as the USA has, but for the most part I honestly don't see the point.

If a terrorist wants to bomb a plane or some buildings they're going to find a way and I don't think full body scans and pat downs are going to prevent that. Not even close.
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Won't happen, we're not that hyper-sensitive.
One thing I will point out is that when I was leaving the Canadian side of my Calgary-London flight, you only get a wand or scanned IF YOU SET OF THE METAL DETECTOR FIRST. If you don't set it of -- which I never do because I am fully aware of what sets it off and take it off my person -- you just move on. If you do set it off, you get a choice of wand or scanner, and its your own damn fault for not emptying you pockets or forgetting your watch.
 
TheLastMohican said:
If there were effective methods for tracking down and punishing the sources of leaks, TMZ wouldn't be thriving. Etiquette is not such a pressing concern when one can discreetly snap a photo of the scanner screen (no image-saving necessary) and upload the pictures to a database from a public IP.

Moderately famous people will make good targets. Major celebrities can fly in their own jets, but everyone else
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Barnabas said:
the scans have the faces blocked
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Theoretically. Those seeing the scans can be in back rooms, unable to know whose bodies they are looking at. They can also be prohibited from having cameras in those rooms. But if I have to take an honest guess, I'm not going to wager that those restrictions will be consistently observed.
 
sandra_b said:
I guess where I am from we aren't quite as hardcore in terms of security.We get a wand waved over us and that's pretty much it.
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DoveAlexa said:
Won't happen, we're not that hyper-sensitive.
One thing I will point out is that when I was leaving the Canadian side of my Calgary-London flight, you only get a wand or scanned IF YOU SET OF THE METAL DETECTOR FIRST. If you don't set it of -- which I never do because I am fully aware of what sets it off and take it off my person -- you just move on. If you do set it off, you get a choice of wand or scanner, and its your own damn fault for not emptying you pockets or forgetting your watch.
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Yeah, I too have a hard time seeing things going that far over here, but you never know. All I know is that we have pretty strong and powerful activists when it comes to privacy.

My experiences in travel has been the same as that of Dove's. In the few countries I've been to, I've only gotten the wand and the metal detector. I've never been patted down. I must admit though, it's not something I would like to go through.
 
Barnabas said:
the scans have the faces blocked
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which an amateur hacker could make go away.

fun fact from a friend in the military. A lieutenant on a military charter flight from Bagram AFB saw a soldier have nail clippers taken away from him going through TSA rescreening at a stop in Indianapolis, although he had an empty M16 slung over his shoulder and was told that nail clippers could be used to take down an airplane yet a giant metal club(M16) couldn't.

As for backscatter: I want to see the amount of radiation given off and how much a regular TSA would get. none of this equivalent BS TSA is spouting and if need be how they justified the comparison. I've had X-rays... the people giving em stand behind a lead lined wall. X-rays are X-rays regardless of if they say low energy. That name is relative to traditional X-rays.

It may be a privilege but I still have rights and since they made it so that if you fail to complete a security screening you face a civil fine of $11000 it seems I must opt for alternative modes of travel.

Alternative: You go to a country that harbors terrorists/has terrorist ties and have no business for being there, you become a POI. If you have ties to any of said nations you are a POI. POI are subject to further scrutiny. Also Screening passengers by observation techniques (SPOT) should be implemented and the agents doing it trained for such procedures. Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion airport does well with this system.
 
DoveAlexa said:
Won't happen, we're not that hyper-sensitive.
One thing I will point out is that when I was leaving the Canadian side of my Calgary-London flight, you only get a wand or scanned IF YOU SET OF THE METAL DETECTOR FIRST. If you don't set it of -- which I never do because I am fully aware of what sets it off and take it off my person -- you just move on. If you do set it off, you get a choice of wand or scanner, and its your own damn fault for not emptying you pockets or forgetting your watch.
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Yep that has been my exact experience. I have never flown out of the country but I have lost count of the amount of times I have flown into/out of Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver and Hamilton and the only time I have been scanned was something setting it off that I had on me that didn't take off and that's hardly anything for me to complain about.
 
Personally, I'd rather endure 30 seconds of groping than go through an x-ray machine.

And while I like being safe, I think airport security is blown out of proportion. There are other ways for an American to die that are easier to protect against than terrorist hijacking of airplanes.
 
sandra_b said:
Yep that has been my exact experience. I have never flown out of the country but I have lost count of the amount of times I have flown into/out of Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver and Hamilton and the only time I have been scanned was something setting it off that I had on me that didn't take off and that's hardly anything for me to complain about.
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And that's a much smarter way to do things. My only issue is, if my memory is correct, you can create bombs in a sense, by just combining a few liquids... So couldn't they keep them in non metallic containers? Not sure if it would corrode away, as I don't know much about that stuff... But just a thought.
 
Freedom has a lot to do with things you may never understand.

It is a truth we all see things differently. The dropping of two bombs cost many a life. One can only wonder how many they saved in the grand scheme of things. Calling that terrorism is just not right, but you have a choice to do so.

Might I ask how you would handle airport security with all your experience? Remember we each view freedom somewhat differently.

I have learned to accept the things I cannot change. Now, if I have a better idea I will share it with those it needs sharing with. Lighting a joint and going naked to talk with them about freedom that doesn't or didn't cost anything would get you locked up in a strange place you might get used to.

There have been many a man die for the freedom you have. The price was paid in their blood.
World War II ring any bells? Normandy?

How about Auschwitz? That wasn't terrorism; it was mass murder and genocide.

Those bombs may have made your life capable of existence.
 
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sandra_b said:
Yep that has been my exact experience. I have never flown out of the country but I have lost count of the amount of times I have flown into/out of Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver and Hamilton and the only time I have been scanned was something setting it off that I had on me that didn't take off and that's hardly anything for me to complain about.
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My condolences (the decor was horrendous, wasn't it?)
 
Urtehnoes said:
And that's a much smarter way to do things. My only issue is, if my memory is correct, you can create bombs in a sense, by just combining a few liquids... So couldn't they keep them in non metallic containers? Not sure if it would corrode away, as I don't know much about that stuff... But just a thought.
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Yes you're right, and that is why we are no longer allowed to carry on liquids exceeding 100ml. You cannot even carry on bottles that have the capacity to carry over 100mL. There was an incident where someone fashioned a bomb out of some kind of liquid and they carried it on, but as far as I know nothing happened.

My condolences (the decor was horrendous, wasn't it?)
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LOL actually I quite like the Calgary airport! It is much better than the Vancouver or Toronto airports. Toronto really has nothing to speak of to spend your time. Vancouver has a terrible layout and not much going on either. At least with Calgary you get a nice view and there are shops and restaurants!
 
These scanners are x-ray machines. They emmit radiation. Some medical experts have questioned whether or not they are safe.

I would not use them, i certainly wouldn't let my child use them and definately not a pregnant woman.

The pat down is not just intrusive it takes time. On average it takes 4 minutes and even longer if they talk you through the procedure. We have all checked onto flights....by the time you're moving you're tired and you just want to get on the plane. This is a big dissinsentive for people to go for the pat down option.

This is not a harmless security option. This is one more encroachment in a long list of encroachments which are eroding our freedoms:

In the UK we have more CCTV cameras then any other country. Face recognition technology is being introduced which can recognise people and even analyse their behaviour. This means you can be tracked anywhere you go.

You can also be tracked by your mobile phone and your conversations can even be listened into through its microphone even when the phone is switched off. In the UK phone calls and emails are monitored throught he government listening agency GCHQ for certain key words and then the content of your message checked

The government has tried to impose ID cards on us and a DNA database. Combined with psychometric testing and all the other information held on databases they can pretty much know anything about you.

New 'terror' legislation has been introduced which allows police new powers of stop and search and detention. I also know that in the US amendments have been made to the constitution and the Patriot laws allowed things like th authorities knowing what library books you get out and am i right in saying phone taps as well?

Everything you do on the internet is monitored and recorded and some countries like Australia and China are even limiting their populations access to the internet becasue the internet offers people news which does not come from the state sanctioned media. The Chinese hire an army of people called the '50 centers' to post pro-government propaganda on the internet. They are paid 50 cents for each article they write. This is all part of the governments propaganda machine designed to control the way that the public think and feel about things.

In the UK laws have been passed which give traffic wardens the power of arrest and private security guards the power of arrest if authorised by the police chief and this can also extend to entering into peoples homes. The only reason these changes would make sense is if the government is expecting to deal with civil unrest

We are currently seeing waves of civil unrest sweep across Europe as the people are being financially squeezed by their governments. The people have now become aware that this is not because there isn't enough money to go around but because the politicians have given massive amounts of public money over to the bankers in the 'bailouts'. Here the politicians have, instead of writing off the debts to the ability to pay, have paid the over inflated value debts to the private global creditors and have taken on the debts and are enforcing them against the people. This means that no debt releif has been given to the people; instead the bankers have made off with the public money and the government is kicking people out of their homes (to pay the debt) instead

This policy is part of the movement of neoliberalism which has seen the deregulation of markets for example by Bill Clinton. The Clintons have subsequently made vast fortunes. These deregulations have allowed monopolies and the derivitives market. The ratings agencies which ok'd the toxic derivitives which have caused the global credit crunch were owned by the banks themselves...so it is clear that the whole system is rigged

The worlds political systems and economies are becoming increasingly integrated under 'globalisation' and the global financial elites that are driving these changes are looking at how they will control the worlds population under their global governance

Terrorism which is largely a myth and many people believe has in fact been orchestrated by the CIA (see Operation Northwood if this sounds fantastical) has provided the wests governments operating as the 'G20' with the perfect excuse to clamp down on the activities of their citizens. They have legislated away certain civil rights and new technologies are being employed as a way of controlling people

Some people believe that the New World Order intend, in the future, to implant microchips under the skin of every man woman and child on the planet to constantly monitor their movements and financial transactions.

We are moving ever closer to the situation outlined in George Orwell's book 1984
 
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muir said:
These scanners are x-ray machines. They emmit radiation. Some medical experts have questioned whether or not they are safe.
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There are two kinds of scanners, actually: backscatter, which use x-rays, and millimeter wave, which use microwaves.
 
Hi The Last Mohican

Thanks for the info. Microwaves are still radiation though right? I don't wanna be zapped by either!

Hi TDHT

I can't access the video on the site you have posted. It says funnily enough: 'not available in your country'!

Can you give me a quick run down of what it says?
 
i have this seriously amusing related story to tell. since that plane hit your building in the states we haven't been allowed to have rubbish bins on our train platforms at sydney central station because a terrorist might put a bomb in one. in the morning on my way to work i like to drink my coffee on the train and sometimes i do a bit of waiting around if i switch trains at central. in the past this has resulted in me holding an empty coffee cup for twenty minutes until i make it out of the next station and find a bin. but now i have given up doing this and i just dump it on the platform where i'm waiting. because they hire people to go around picking up the garbage with these long grabby claw wand things and it means that they are employed. so i am contributing to society by littering, because before they took our garbage bins away these people probably didn't have jobs. but enough of that crap, what i meant to say that is funny is, that if someone put a bomb in a garbage can it probably wouldn't do very much damage. it might kill a maximum of five people. i wonder how many people i could kill if i put a bomb in a backpack and left it under a seat in a full cinema. oh i haven't really thought about it much, or what scale of damage i could achieve if i were a terrorist. but i'm just saying. when you realise that these measures are largely ineffective bullshit wastes of time and money and energy that could be put into healthcare and education, they don't retain much meaningful function apart from terrorizing people into thinking that they need to be vigiliant. or perhaps it gives people a false sense that they are doing something meaningful to protect themselves from all the scary stuff out there, when the poor in their own country can't get housing and get screwed over way beyond what any terrorist could do to them. maybe it's just nationalist propaganda for some reason. whatever. sorry about all my weird crazy ideas. i don't really understand anything at all.

EDIT. oh wait it would probably kill more people than 5 if i put a bomb in a train station bin wouldn't it? i wasn't being very realistic about that.
 
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