Ti dom in an Fe world | INFJ Forum

Ti dom in an Fe world

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Satya, Jun 27, 2010.

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  1. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I'm not gonna lie, sometimes it sucks to be an INTP member of an INFJ forum. Fe and Ti simply do not get along very well. Members with Fe seek to harmonize with their fellow member and are sensitive to their sensibilities. By contrast, Ti members are more interested in finding and expressing the truth, and if that offends someone, then tough cookies.

    There really isn't much that can be done to compromise between these judging functions and the battle is even internal.



    An INFJ who is pissed at an INTP for how they expressed their views will often be torn between the Fe sentiment of how insensitive the INTP was being and the Ti sentiment of the truth of INTP's argument. The end result is the INFJ will usually say that the INTP is right or at least entitled to their perspective, but they need to be nicer about it.

    By contrast the INTP who is pissed at an INFJ for their sensibilities will often be torn between the Ti sentiment of expressing what they believe is the truth and the Fe sentiment of feeling bad when they do hurt someone's feelings. The end result is the INTP will usually say that the INFJ's views should still be respected even if they aren't rational but the INFJ needs to be less sensitive.

    So you end up with this assumption, both internal and external, that INTPs need to be "nicer" and INFJs need to be "less sensitive". When in actuality, the priority of the INTP is to find truth and the priority of the INFJ is to harmonize. INTPs value competence and INFJs value peace.

    If an INTP senses that someone holds a belief that is false and potentially harmful, then that is incompetence and the INTP is driven at all costs to address it, even attack it. Incompetence and ignorance are the mortal enemies of INTPs and the perceived cause of all evil. The more the INFJ chooses to protect the belief, the more caustic and emotional the INTP is likely to get in trying to destroy it. The INTP usually isn't interested in attacking the individual who holds the belief, only the belief itself, but INFJs are often very attached to their beliefs.

    Given this pattern of interaction, what course of action can the INTP and INFJ take? Obviously, by their very nature,, INTPs are not going to back down when they encounter a potentially dangerous or irrational belief. And by their very nature, INFJs are not going to back down when they feel their views must be respected even if they aren't based on rational or evidence.

    Can the two types compromise in this situation, or is it hopeless?
     
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  2. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    This is part of the reason I don't have many INTP friends. I do have a very strong Ti at least where an INFJ is considered. But I still have these issues with NTP's and NTJ's We click but sometimes its not enough to overcome the F and T wall.

    for me I keep my INTP interactions very careful. And I tend to avoid anything tough feely and I ask that INTPs not be dicks about my feelings.

    I've found you have to get to know the other person well. Or its hard to care enough to accommodate such a large difference in personality.

    So in short I don't really have a good answer for you expect that both members try and meet in the middle.

    Again I seek truth pretty strongly almost in a T manner but I don't know about people who don't.

    A couple important issues for me that I just remembered.

    I've noticed a lot of NTPs and NTJs especially E variants have a very Utilitarian Ethical system or even seem to lack a people focused ethical system.

    That right there is for me is one of the biggest hurtles to dealing with someone of (NTP /NTJ) types. I find this along with emotional sensitivity to be the hardest to over come. Because they are usually core values. And usually if I feel someone is to me immoral I keep away from them and try not to let them get close. This also ties into the NTP especially ENTP, predatory approach to friendship and an imbalance of give in take in relationships. With some NTP or NTJ types I feel that I'm being taken advantage of.
     
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    #2 Blind Bandit, Jun 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  3. Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    Based on the various example of this relationship on the forum, I think it's best to keep the two types away from each other when it comes to deeply held beliefs of the INFJ. I've seen it numerous times (not being an INTP) where an INFJ will get overtly offended by what an INTP said but it was meant to illustrate a point, not so much as demean their character. Alas, the damage is already done. As long as both types play it safe, I think INTPs an INFJs can get along splendidly.
     
  4. DoveAlexa

    DoveAlexa Chaz's Lovey Bunny
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    Well, part of this is because we identify with our beliefs, as in we "are" our beliefs and don't see how they could be separate from our character. While this could be taken as wholly negative, it does make us take more care and responsibility in what we dare to believe. Usually.
     
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  5. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    +1
     
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  6. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Shut up bill lol!

    <3 <3 <3
     
    #6 Billy, Jun 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  7. 88chaz88

    88chaz88 Back for a limited time only
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    I get along quite well here.
     
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  8. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

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    I haven't noticed any many problems with the people I've talked to here... tho granted, I haven't talked to too many for too long. I got along well enough with the (only, I think) INFJ from my high school as well; we went to prom together and all. I disagree with most of your analysis of what problems occur between the two types too, though. Ti is not aggressive in addressing/attacking other peoples' beliefs unless it's mixed with arrogance, at which point it's not the Ti that's the problem. I've noticed that the problems I have with (all types of) people drop off very steeply if I'm not sure I'm right.
     
    #8 frozen_water, Jun 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  9. DoveAlexa

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    I am more likely to bump heads with another Fe or an Fi. We both share a non-rational function but have different but equally strong beliefs. Hard to meet in the middle sometimes. Its when we start using T we calm down.
     
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  10. Reon

    Reon Midnight's Garden

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    Yep. Most INTPs (around the age range of ~18+ up to...25ish? ) tend to have a desire to correct any logical impurities that people have, no matter if they are right or wrong. People's beliefs tend to be the fodder of their cannon so to speak.
     
  11. IndigoSensor

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    It is of my opinion that the majority of INFJ's and INTP's do not do well in political, religious, and philosphical discussions when put together. Unfortonately there is no way to fix this what so ever. All you have to do is just walk away.
     
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  12. Jonathan

    Jonathan Community Member

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    I've been thinking about the INTP/ INFJ interactions on the forum for a long time now. From what I've learned about MBTI, I've come to understand that T types might be a lot less sensitive to others than I am. I've learned to brace myself for the hard truth, because I use my J to convince myself that, when it comes down to it, it's probably for the best to hear their honest opinions. It still hurts a bit sometimes, but at least I know where it's coming from.
    The only problem I have with INTPs sometimes is when they say something like it's absolutely true, when I've spent so much time coming to a different conclusion. I wish we could all just be on the same page, and that everyone's feelings could always be considered (INFJ idealism talking, I guess.)
    Agreeing to disagree seems to happen a lot between our two types.
     
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  13. Peppermint

    Peppermint Well-known member

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    Can you expand more on this predatory approach to friendships?

    Why would it be impossible to fix it? Surely, compromise is still a possibility, but only if the parties involved are willing to thoroughly communicate their views. People can always "agree to disagree" without any hard feelings if everything else fails. I'm sure some of you will disagree, but to me the agreement of opposite sides in a debate is not very relevant to the debate itself. As a side note, I think that political, religious and philosophical views aren't necessarily tied to types.

    This is an interesting topic, I'll be keeping my eye on it.
     
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  14. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    Upon discovering MBTI it was disheartening to realise that other people weren't just messed up versions of me that could be "fixed" they had fundamentally different priorities. Makes me wonder if people will ever find peace and stability.
     
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  15. Norton

    Norton XXXX

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    Look, Satya, I'm an INTP on this INFJ forum, happily married to an INFJ for 34 years. I think MBTI can be taken too far. It's not an exact science (if a science at all) and people are incredibly diverse even if they share the same four letters. As Dirty Harry said, "A man has to know his limitations." Just because one has limitations doesn't mean they can't be overcome. Sure, we INTP's can be oblivious to emotion, but there is a logic to emotion just like there is a logic to facts. Over time, one can realize that data are data, whether they come from facts or feelings and such information is useful in dealing with the world. I would posit that an INTP has more to learn on this forum than on an INTP forum, such as INTP Central, where people seem to reinforce their weaknesses to their own detriment. Hopefully, as one grows older, one becomes wiser. Wisdom is understanding the world and appreciating its diversity, an appreciation which is closer to the truth than the prosaic limitations of the immature INTP.
     
  16. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    Norton I think I love you!

    Wow that was well said. I think thats the first time any T type has ever gotten emotion right. Hell the functions we use for logic and feeling are both fallible and not perfect. Thats where a lot of issues come for me. A T type (often an INTP) Thinks that that logical is iron glad. Regardless of the fact that T types still have feelings and biases. The best we can do admit that our perception will always be flawed no matter what function you use to reason. INFJs also have this problem until they develop their Ti enough to search for truth.
     
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  17. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    Well, it's just a matter of figuring out which function works best in which situation.

    I'm compassionate in social situation, but usually my Ti sucker-punches my Fe in the face when it comes to anything logical. And there is a way to argue where you can be tactful while laying a logical smack-down at the same time, and I think that's a good middle ground for both INFJs and INTPs to aim for.
     
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  18. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    @Peppermint I find some NTPs espically can have a very scekewed approach to what constoutues a fair and balance relationships. I find I give more than I take most of the time. That and some NTP's make you feel like a peace of meat and your just a commodity to be used. Its just a feeling I get its hard to explain it well.
     
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    #18 Blind Bandit, Jun 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  19. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    well said *applauds*
     
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  20. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    Very much agreed with this as well.
     
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