[PUG] The Left's Difficulty Accepting Election/Referendum Results

[Stu]

It is true that illegally employed construction workers have decimated the pay of the trades. This is a serious issue. It seems that the pressure on builders to build at the lowest cost has pushed them into illegal activity. It seems to me that if there were no jobs for illegal immigrants to have then they would not be here. It also seems that in many states it is harder to prove your right to vote then it is to steal a job from a citizen.
Who it to blame? Democratic elites or construction magnates?

 

[brightmoon]

http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

Speaking about how Trump used undocumented Polish labourers to build Trump Tower:

Sullivan put it more bluntly in 1990 to People magazine. “It was disgusting how he used people,” Sullivan said. “I said, ‘Don’t exploit them like that. Don’t try to f-ck these poor souls over.’ It baffled me then, and it makes me sick even now that he knowingly had these Poles there for the purpose of Trump Tower at starvation wages. He couldn’t give a sh-t because he’s Donald Trump and everybody is here to serve him. Over time he became more and more monstrous and arrogant. I asked myself, ‘How long is it going to take for all of this to catch up with him?

I would say is not only pressure to build at the lowest cost has pushed them into illegal activity but also greed. If you can get the work done cheaper and not have to worry about stuff that drives cost up like safety equipment why not do it?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Yeah, quit being a dick, @Flavus.Aquila you left the forum because you couldn't agree with people here who wouldn't tolerate a racist xenophobe... But now that Trump won, you're suddenly back..

I took a step back... I'm back, yeah!

The treatment of JJJA and ElegantWinter was sickening... but that frickin' cow's kind of buried... so yeah.

I think the voice of democracy, and the tears of oppressors has been great for everyone.

...
It's kind of neat how there were about 1000 protestors out in LA last night... that's about how many people turned out for Clinton's pre-election rally.

 

[just me]

One of the LEOs trying to help keep the peace has now died.

 

[54192&#cmy]

View attachment 30047
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-...make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

They want majority rule?

http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

Speaking about how Trump used undocumented Polish labourers to build Trump Tower:

Sullivan put it more bluntly in 1990 to People magazine. “It was disgusting how he used people,” Sullivan said. “I said, ‘Don’t exploit them like that. Don’t try to f-ck these poor souls over.’ It baffled me then, and it makes me sick even now that he knowingly had these Poles there for the purpose of Trump Tower at starvation wages. He couldn’t give a sh-t because he’s Donald Trump and everybody is here to serve him. Over time he became more and more monstrous and arrogant. I asked myself, ‘How long is it going to take for all of this to catch up with him?

I would say is not only pressure to build at the lowest cost has pushed them into illegal activity but also greed. If you can get the work done cheaper and not have to worry about stuff that drives cost up like safety equipment why not do it?

Another aspect of this problem is the fed letting it happen at all. The fed has turned its back on the citizen its sworn to protect.
Trump was able to do what he did because the law protected him.Whether it's right or wrong it's the law.

This election clearly shows me how the two party system can be rigged and how the people can be easily divided because there are only two choices. They won't even allow a third party candidate to debate with them. So much for free thought? Life is full of more than two choices. How can a diverse free society live with two choices and be allowed to prosper and grow. When it is constantly being divided.

We are forgetting that we are all Americans first. No mater what domination or color or creed. We are all equal and protected under the law. We the people need to open our hearts to one another and be Americans again. Take pride in what we stand for. Practice what we preach. Put our best feet forward to promote security and safety for all Americans. We need to end the division and unite as Americans. Political party's should not separate us from being Americans first and loving our country. And our fellow Americans no matter how close or far away.

It's sad to see this country so divided. I wish that love for one another would foster and grow again in the world. Setting aside perceived differences for the better meant of all human kind. And spreading compassion and understanding. That's the type of leadership I'm looking for. Where has it gone. Or has it just been stifled and it's waiting to bloom again and take hold.

 

[just me]

Why does the left in both GB and USA have such difficulty in gracefully accepting democratic elections/referendums?

Firstly, one must be graceful to act gracefully.

Secondly, those in the streets know all too well they are not the majority. They have learned to riot and protest to get what THEY want. They do not care about the rest of us.

 

[54192&#cmy]

http://www.businessinsider.com/housing-foreclosures-rise-in-october-2016-11

And here is what will crash the economy again. Plus all the student loans out there. No work = more foreclosures. More defaults on student loans. The problem we are facing as a nation is much bigger than Trump or Clinton. And yet we focus right where they want us to look. We are on the cusp of another economic depression. We have allowed our govt to spend us into oblivion...

 

[Faye]

I'm not an American, so I don't have any answer to critiques of how I vote.

I also can't take many of the complaints about what might happen hypothetically too seriously, because assault is assault, regardless of the victim, and the laws dealing with this aren't in question. Having special laws for particular groups is kind of repellent to me. Laws should have no favourites.

As for the loss of state benefits, this is such an epic case of "first world problems", that it's kind of sickening, if you've seen people with severe malnutrition, having lost all their teeth and digits. It makes my blood boil to hear people crying blue murder over the repeal of some aspects of obamacare. It's such a rareified and aloof position in the world beyond the horizons of US domestic concerns.

The proceeding rant isn't desirous of bad things for certain groups, but rather annoyance at the brattish complaints in a backdrop of a world filled with people who ACTUALLY die because they lack the most basic things most of use despicably take for granted. Example: clean drinking water, which doesn't carry deadly disease.

Seriously? "First world problems" is your response? That is such a lame shutdown tactic. This is what I am talking about when I say that you will not even engage in an actual conversation.

I have seen people with malnutrition and who were missing body parts. Just because our lives are not as horrid as what I witnessed during my five months in Africa does not mean that bad things do not happen here in developed countries. Lots of bad things happen here, and telling people not to be upset about them just because they are not living in a slum in Africa is absurd. The problem is not that we have it good in developed countries: it is that they do not have the infrastructure and governance they need in developing countries. Oh yeah, and people here are actually dying. No, not as much as people in rural sub-Saharan Africa or wherever, but they are still dying.

I am acutely aware of having the privilege of living in this country, and that is just the thing. I already feel like America is a great country in many ways. But the way that Donald Trump acts reminds me of how politicians in Africa act, and that is upsetting on a visceral level.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Seriously? "First world problems" is your response? That is such a lame shutdown tactic. This is what I am talking about when I say that you will not even engage in an actual conversation.

I have seen people with malnutrition and who were missing body parts. Just because our lives are not as horrid as what I witnessed during my five months in Africa does not mean that bad things do not happen here in developed countries. Lots of bad things happen here, and telling people not to be upset about them just because they are not living in a slum in Africa is absurd. The problem is not that we have it good in developed countries: it is that they do not have the infrastructure and governance they need in developing countries. Oh yeah, and people here are actually dying. No, not as much as people in rural sub-Saharan Africa or wherever, but they are still dying.

I am acutely aware of having the privilege of living in this country, and that is just the thing. I already feel like America is a great country in many ways. But the way that Donald Trump acts reminds me of how politicians in Africa act, and that is upsetting on a visceral level.

What do YOU call a highly privileged individuals, who angrily demand more and more privilege, without having to honestly earn/pay for it; and who use influence, media, and political tactics to get their expectations met?

That's how your left wing population comes across to the rest of the world. I think "first world problems" probably doesn't fit, because at least that meme is somewhat amusing and self-aware.

The hallmark for me, as a spectator from across the Pacific, that the Clinton campaign is truly self-deluded in regards their privilege, is the contempt with which you all constantly reference uneducated working classes, as being your largest opponents demographically. Uber elitist.

 

[Faye]

I want to ask you a few questions in no particular order.
Do you think it is fair for a person to go to college to better themselves only to have their jobs given to people who did not go to college and who are not legally able to work in America? And violate the law by working as plumbers and electricians without the proper apprenticeship cards?

You have referenced killing yourself several times in this post. I am concerned. Are you serious? I hope not. That's a very frightening way to feel and believe about yourself.

So what are you going to do start a battle with the bigots? How will you deal with them?
How are they responsible for the way you feel?

Are you willing to admit your wrong if Trump does not do what you say. What if he puts all kinds of people into his administration? From all walks of life.

Is everything the white mans fault? How is it my fault? Where is my white privilege being used against minorities?

Should I kill myself and my children because we are white? Because we could most likely be racists or against gays?

Would the world be better off if all whites were dead? Zero white people? Is that possible?

What is the final solution for the white race?

How do we solve the white problem of privilege?

Can a white man ever be saved? Maybe it's too late for them from birth? Do you think so? Maybe white people should be exiled but where could they all go so that they were not a danger to the world?

I'm really trying to understand. I can't possibly see where two wrongs equal a right. Maybe you can explain where I am wrong?

I will answer in order.

1. No, it is obviously not fair; however, it is a reality. There are an estimated 11.4 million illegal immigrants in the United States right now, and so getting rid of them is not feasible (not to mention the damage it would do to the agriculture and construction industries). It is a story that has been repeated several times in the history of this country- with Irish, German, eastern European, and other immigrants. Immigrants get here, find success and make things more competitive for the people already here, there is a lot of racism and political action directed toward them, and it never works and they assimilate into the American melting pot. The only difference now is that they have brown skin instead of white, but history is repeating itself.

2. Yes, I am serious. I have thought about suicide almost every day for 15 years now. If things do not work out for me, I will definitely do it since my life as it is is not worth living. It is just a reality of our existence: 41% of transgender people have attempted suicide.

3. No, I am not going to start a battle with the bigots- they have already started it against me and others like me. To combat them, I will be political informed and engaged. I will also carry knives and maybe mace when I go out as who I am (for self defense only obviously).

4. He needs to do a lot more than put all kinds of people into his administration, but that would help. I would of course admit I was wrong if he did in fact turn out to be a good president. You have to admit that his campaign has not been promising. Go look at exit polls of how many black people voted for him.

5. It is not your fault as an individual. And it is not about your privilege being used against minorities- that does not even make sense. What we mean when we say that some people are privileged while others are not is that some minority groups do not receive the same treatment and opportunities by virtue of them who they are.

6. Where on earth is this coming from? Of course you should not kill yourself if you are white. And I would not assume a white person is racist or against gay people either ("gays" is not a word by the way).

7. No, we would not be better off if all white people were dead. You are being ridiculous.

8. That sounds ominous. And you are still being absurd. I am not for hurting white people at all! I am white myself!

9. We solve the problem of privilege by making sure that other people are affording the same rights, protections, and opportunities that they deserve. I know that is vague, but it is not about hurting white people.

10. I really cannot wrap my head around your mentality. White men do not need to be saved or whatever. Once again, this is not about hurting white people. I really cannot believe you think I have said anything that implies that I think this way.

 

[Faye]

What do YOU call a highly privileged individuals, who angrily demand more and more privilege, without having to honestly earn/pay for it; and who use influence, media, and political tactics to get their expectations met?

I call them the Republican Party.

 

[Faye]

Please just wait and see what he does. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised. Just give him a chance, please.

Well, we have no choice. The Republican Party will be in control of the federal government: the legislature (both houses), executive, and probably the judiciary. So no more blaming Obama for everything- it will all be on them once his term starts.

 

[the]

Which candidate was the one who characterized an entire ethnic as rapists and murders?

Do you mean super predators?

 

[the]

 

[James]

I think that although Donald Trump lost the popular vote, under the current electoral system in America, he won the election. It's over, he won. The time to argue about the format was before not after the election.

Not everyone seems to accept that view though. Here are some tweets from President Trump back in 2012, when he thought Obama had won the electoral college but lost the popular vote to Mitt Romney. For clarity I should add that under the official records, Obama did win the popular vote by a clear margin.

 

[dang]

I dislike Donald Trump and believe he is unqualified to be president. But with that being said, protesting the results of a fair election is not democratic. The popular vote is irrelevant. The electoral college is all that matters. You can't change the rules because you didn't get the result you wanted. Anyone who thinks Donald shouldn't be allowed to become the next president, like Michael Moore, is being ridiculous. He won fair and square. The protesters are like a big bunch of sour grapes. And this is what I find to be most ironic. Many people believe that Donald will become more of a dictator or fascist than a president of a democratic nation. But in order to prevent him from becoming president, rather than going to the polls and defeating him on Election Day, the Hillary supporters want him to resign or for the electoral college to pick Hillary instead. Is that fair? Is that democratic? If Donald won the popular vote, and Hillary won the electoral college, would Hillary supporters be saying that Donald should really be the president? Hell no. It is so transparent. Hillary lost because she couldn't inspire enough liberals to go and vote. That's it. Is there ample reason to be concerned about a Donald presidency? Of course. But does it make sense to not accept the results of the election? Of course not. Just because Hillary and her supporters underestimated their opposition and assumed they would win, doesn't mean they are now entitled to get their way because they are shocked and upset. This reminds me of the 18-0 Pats losing in the Super Bowl to the Giants. Pats fans were stunned. But guess what? Just because the underdogs pulled off an upset, didn't mean that Pats fans didn't accept the outcome. Win gracefully, lose gracefully. Democrats are in many ways acting like spoiled brats who feel entitled to get their way. After 8 years of Barry O, did they really think they were going to automatically and effortlessly have democratic presidents indefinitely? That is not how democracies and elections work. The election is over. Deal with it. And focus on defeating Donald in 2020. But throwing a tantrum because things didn't go your way is not very mature. Donald won the election. He will become president on 1/20/17. Accept it and prepare for it. And if you are going to protest, at least do it in a productive manner. Protesting the results of a fair election is a waste of energy. Hillary supporters need to take a long look in the mirror. They are the reason Donald won. Period. Now deal with reality. Protesting Hillary supporters whining and acting ultra butt hurt because they weren't handed a presidential election seems really pathetic to me. Donald never should have become president. But now it is too late to do anything about it. And trust me, it won't be as bad as many believe. Presidents only have so much power. I could be wrong, but I don't think we have to worry about Donald destroying our country. And if one president is capable of destroying our country, would this country really deserve to remain a super power? Probably not. So chill out.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I will answer in order.

1. No, it is obviously not fair; however, it is a reality. There are an estimated 11.4 million illegal immigrants in the United States right now, and so getting rid of them is not feasible (not to mention the damage it would do to the agriculture and construction industries). It is a story that has been repeated several times in the history of this country- with Irish, German, eastern European, and other immigrants. Immigrants get here, find success and make things more competitive for the people already here, there is a lot of racism and political action directed toward them, and it never works and they assimilate into the American melting pot. The only difference now is that they have brown skin instead of white, but history is repeating itself.

2. Yes, I am serious. I have thought about suicide almost every day for 15 years now. If things do not work out for me, I will definitely do it since my life as it is is not worth living. It is just a reality of our existence: 41% of transgender people have attempted suicide.

3. No, I am not going to start a battle with the bigots- they have already started it against me and others like me. To combat them, I will be political informed and engaged. I will also carry knives and maybe mace when I go out as who I am (for self defense only obviously).

4. He needs to do a lot more than put all kinds of people into his administration, but that would help. I would of course admit I was wrong if he did in fact turn out to be a good president. You have to admit that his campaign has not been promising. Go look at exit polls of how many black people voted for him.

5. It is not your fault as an individual. And it is not about your privilege being used against minorities- that does not even make sense. What we mean when we say that some people are privileged while others are not is that some minority groups do not receive the same treatment and opportunities by virtue of them who they are.

6. Where on earth is this coming from? Of course you should not kill yourself if you are white. And I would not assume a white person is racist or against gay people either ("gays" is not a word by the way).

7. No, we would not be better off if all white people were dead. You are being ridiculous.

8. That sounds ominous. And you are still being absurd. I am not for hurting white people at all! I am white myself!

9. We solve the problem of privilege by making sure that other people are affording the same rights, protections, and opportunities that they deserve. I know that is vague, but it is not about hurting white people.

10. I really cannot wrap my head around your mentality. White men do not need to be saved or whatever. Once again, this is not about hurting white people. I really cannot believe you think I have said anything that implies that I think this way.

Don't take offense to my questions. I really am trying to understand. I have been seeing a lot of people on youtube that are very upset with whites as a whole. And I just do not understand how persecuted people can turn into the persecutors themselves. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of bigotry and hate. I understand hating myself because of their judgement of me. And I understand the suicidal thoughts that follow psychological abuse. Gay is a term from my youth. It's what I was called. Actually what I was called is much worse. I really wish people would unite together for the common good of all humans. Is this even possible if we divide ourselves further? I'm not for Trump. I want Wikileaks to get the goods on bush. And let the world know what crap the Republicans were pulling. Especially since they have all the cards again. And last time they went with the banks. Please don't feel bad I'm just trying to understand. I don't get out much. So where else can I ask?

 

[Eventhorizon]

Don't take offense to my questions. I really am trying to understand. I have been seeing a lot of people on youtube that are very upset with whites as a whole. And I just do not understand how persecuted people can turn into the persecutors themselves. I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of bigotry and hate. I understand hating myself because of their judgement of me. And I understand the suicidal thoughts that follow psychological abuse. Gay is a term from my youth. It's what I was called. Actually what I was called is much worse. I really wish people would unite together for the common good of all humans. Is this even possible if we divide ourselves further? I'm not for Trump. I want Wikileaks to get the goods on bush. And let the world know what crap the Republicans were pulling. Especially since they have all the cards again. And last time they went with the banks. Please don't feel bad I'm just trying to understand. I don't get out much. So where else can I ask?

The problem with your questions is that they dont play into a narrative people want to think about or address. Change "white" to "black" and you might blow up this forum with responses.
Cold hard truths are not what people want. They want fluffy easy lies.
Unfortunately the only place you will likely get answers to your questions is in an echo chamber. A term thats been used alot around here as of late.
Best of luck.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Seriously? "First world problems" is your response? That is such a lame shutdown tactic. This is what I am talking about when I say that you will not even engage in an actual conversation.

I have seen people with malnutrition and who were missing body parts. Just because our lives are not as horrid as what I witnessed during my five months in Africa does not mean that bad things do not happen here in developed countries. Lots of bad things happen here, and telling people not to be upset about them just because they are not living in a slum in Africa is absurd. The problem is not that we have it good in developed countries: it is that they do not have the infrastructure and governance they need in developing countries. Oh yeah, and people here are actually dying. No, not as much as people in rural sub-Saharan Africa or wherever, but they are still dying.

I am acutely aware of having the privilege of living in this country, and that is just the thing. I already feel like America is a great country in many ways. But the way that Donald Trump acts reminds me of how politicians in Africa act, and that is upsetting on a visceral level.

Im going to interject and point out that in places like Africa only the parents are to blame. They have kids knowing the horror of a life they will have. Offered contraceptives, not to keep them from reproducing but to give them a choice in how many children they have, they refuse citing more ofren than not their religion doesnt allow for it. Im sorry but thats the truth of it.

In this world, providing people the things they need or want is what makes it go around. If you dont have the ability to provide anything like this, there are no other options for you. Africa has very little of what the world wants.

 

[Ryso89]

The tension of this election has proven to me that humanity's awakening is on the rise. I'm stoked. My mission is t continue to spread information like wildfire to engage people to think for themselves. An informed populous will speak. Never underestimate our power.