Social Experiment. Perception of Quran vs. Bible
- Thread starter dogman6126
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Muslims, Left-wingers, and colonised populations.
*Breaking my own principle of no large cut 'n pastes.*
This discussion has really gone in an odd direction......I haven't been watching this thread because I'm in finals week, but please keep it civilized guys.
This isn't a thread about which religion is better or worse, or which is more violent. Rather, this thread was to point out that even people who are supposedly Christian are susceptible to the same biases that we all are, and that we should be aware of this tendency. Hopefully even improve ourselves about it. Here's an interesting question. How do we fix this general behavior of condemnation of Muslims, because of our bias, and improve the social structures in a mutually beneficial way?
I don't know. i'm really tired right now, so i'll let you guys go whatever way.
This isn't a thread about which religion is better or worse, or which is more violent. Rather, this thread was to point out that even people who are supposedly Christian are susceptible to the same biases that we all are, and that we should be aware of this tendency. Hopefully even improve ourselves about it. Here's an interesting question. How do we fix this general behavior of condemnation of Muslims, because of our bias, and improve the social structures in a mutually beneficial way?
I don't know. i'm really tired right now, so i'll let you guys go whatever way.
Containing islam would be one way of keeping things civilized. (Couldn't resist that pun).
It is possibly biased to assume that the people in that video were Christians, or supposedly so, [MENTION=11455]dogman6126[/MENTION] .
In terms of reforming biases about muslims, it would require either a lot of mental gymnastics in the non-muslim observer. On the other hand, biases against muslims could be remedied if sharia law were to be overturned and abolished in muslim countries and communities; if peaceful, coherent, stable societies of muslim nations could be found in the place of the actual muslim nations; if muslims themselves could generally adopt a more accepting attitude towards other religions/customs/views, such that the vast statistical majority of muslim families would be OK with children choosing other beliefs/non-belief; if the huge number of different terrorist organisations would close; if highly devout/enthusiastic practice of islam did not ipso facto make one sympathetic/apologetic with jihadists; and if there were some definitive interpretation of islam, which were acceptable to the vast majority of muslims, which excluded all intolerance to other religions/cultures (especially jews), excluded misogyny, excluded violence, and contained a uniform set of morals to be applied uniformly.
Seriously Matt. Thats the best you can come up with?
I always find arguments funny when a person starts pointing out spelling and grammar as a reason to not consider whats being said. If you want to use this simple excuse to close your fragile mind and protect it... you will.
Are you saying Jesus didn't exist as a person historically? I don't think that's really up for debate. What is up for debate is all the things attributed to him like the miracles etc. since I think most of that is only found in the gospels.
I'm not taking sides, I'm just saying that reports point to this being a part of the plan for extremists. It's like the IRA benefitting from anti-British sentiments.
The fact that people think that I have sympathies for extremist groups for stating this proves my point.
The reading that I have done along with the research suggest to me that whether Jesus existed at all is in fact still a debate. Do you have anything that proves he existed?
If we look at percentages I would ask how many Muslims kniw their religion well. How many Christians etc... I mean beyond what their religious leaders teach. The percentage of people committing murder... because thats what it is...in the name of Islam is pretty damn small by all accounts. I do not think you can judge a religion or anything for that matter on the actions of a comparatively small number of people.
It's not an assumption to say supposedly. It was suggested that they were Christian. Further, I don't recognize the point of this line. What does this matter? ad hominem? I did say that all people are susceptible to this bias, and I certainly don't exclude myself. Base rate neglect and attribution biases are fundamental side effects of our minds. no one is immune.
You have put a lot of suggestions into how they could change, but why to either? The problem is in the perception of Muslims. It is the fact that MOST Muslims, just like MOST Christians are good honest people just trying to make their way through the world. Peaceful and loving. Why should all of those good people be punished for what is no more than a loud (and violent) minority? Sure, maybe this isn't a question of punishment, and is instead a question about obligation on their part, but then I would ask why is that obligation taking priority? You're suggestion of mental gymnastics very well could work. Let's educate our people. Sure, we should fight the loud and violent minority, but would shouldn't fight the others. THAT is OUR moral obligation (at least the latter, the former is not really an obligation, at least in the same sense). If anything we have an obligation to protect those that are peaceful from those of us that are not.
The point that I'm getting at is your comment seems to suggest (although you don't directly state this direction. Even if it isn't your thought, you must admit it is so easy to construe the comment in that way) that the problems mostly come from THEM and not US, but that's simply not true. Not only is that the wrong way to frame the question (it forms US vs. THEM in group biases), but it is to misrepresent the solutions. We need to solve the problem in our culture, as we don't really have a right to tell them how to solve their culture (especially if most of us don't even understand it!). We need to stop being hateful of ALL Muslims. We need to accept those that are peaceful, and protect them from both the violent minority of Muslims, and the loud (and currently not violent) minority of Christians. What happens if all this talk of deporting Muslims, or tagging them, or restricting their religious freedoms actually goes through? What happens if people start violently attacking Muslims on the streets? We have an obligation not as Christians, but as Americans to prevent THAT from happening.
Here's a few quotes from the Torah.
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged."
Deuteronomy 17:12
"Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants."
Isaiah 14:21
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
Leviticus 20:10
To anyone saying that it is impossible to reform Islam, or to practice it in a non-violent way, look at your own religious texts. Nothing is impossible.
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged."
Deuteronomy 17:12
"Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants."
Isaiah 14:21
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
Leviticus 20:10
To anyone saying that it is impossible to reform Islam, or to practice it in a non-violent way, look at your own religious texts. Nothing is impossible.
Religion is primarily a way to self identify and a set of dogma second. That's one reason parents get upset when you change your religion. Why anyone would be surprised that any cult members don't fully understand their religion is beyond me... Well no it's not, people being ignorant is what I expect.
Sometimes I try to imagine population sizes. I think of a hundred people, then 1000. Then 20 or 30 thousand sitting in a full stadium. 7 billion people in the world. There is going to be conflict. Remember when 250, 000 people died in Indonesia? People hardly think of that anymore unless they live in the area. No one could wrap their head around that when it happened though. It was tragedy on a previously unknown human level. Today we here of a single person killed in the news and sometimes that has more effect then 250, 000 dying if they are killed in a certain way. By someone elses hand rather than nature. All of it...ALL of it is about perspective. It takes work to see the world this way but its truth. As a civilized society we should be making the effort though.
Whatever your ASSERTIONS might be about the majority of muslims, the FACT is that the vast majority of muslims follow sharia law (and this is not just some theoretical moral code - it is literally something even a non-muslim can be tried under in a court). I think you ought to familiarise yourself with sharia law a little better, because it is obvious you have not.