J vs P differences | INFJ Forum

J vs P differences

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Quinlan, Aug 7, 2008.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 13 users.
More threads by Quinlan
  1. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Threads:
    160
    Messages:
    4,066
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ISFP
    What are the main differences between these two? How do you recognise these preferences in an Introvert?

    I'm working in accounts at the moment and I get huge satisfaction when the books are all balanced, also when my in-tray is completely empty. I think I like the sense of order and completion that comes with it. Is this my J preference coming out?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    t56hg2bv and Sandie33 like this.
  2. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Threads:
    67
    Messages:
    3,866
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    I'm like that too, very J at work. I like it when the J all comes together :D When I get home I think I'm more P, more laid back and spontaneous.
    We don't like surprises and we love order so much we even try to create it out of chaos. That's the gist of it for me.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    PastelpinkPuppy and t56hg2bv like this.
  3. OP
    Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Threads:
    160
    Messages:
    4,066
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    315
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ISFP
    I thought of another one, I hate leaving things unfinished. When I got my latest computer, I couldn't get it setup and running properly before I had to get some sleep. I barely slept that night... It frustrated me to leave it only half setup overnight.

    When I moved into a new flat I had to have everything unpacked and in it's place before I went to bed that night, no half full boxes!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    t56hg2bv likes this.
  4. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Threads:
    78
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    My answer to the OP is I don't recognise this preference in others, I look at the whole picture.

    I get wary when people look at the differences between two letters as in P v J as they may be quite simple to explain as in J gets things done and P puts off, but the difference between an INJ and INP are substantial and completion of projects and such is not a big factor in deciding type.

    There are INJs who hardly finish anything they start and INPs who are highly motivated, external factors and upbringing have an effect here.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    PastelpinkPuppy, April and t56hg2bv like this.
  5. sumone

    sumone down the rabbit hole

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Threads:
    67
    Messages:
    3,866
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    infj
    Lurker, I agree with you about factors, it's always a good thing to keep in mind.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    t56hg2bv likes this.
  6. wormheart

    wormheart Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Threads:
    2
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This applies for me too, I'm a trooper at school, which makes me appear conscientious, yet with assignments and studying I procrastinate like there's no tomorrow. :S
    Some external structure prevents me from being distracted and it also has something to do with keeping up with the crowd (can’t stand the thought of having to catch up on things) and feeling anxious/restless when faced with incomplete tasks, wishing everything was already over and done with so I can relax and unwind without any pressure lingering over me. Even though I live for such freedom, I can never bring myself to maximise it and put that J into practice where there is no structure to slot into.

    True. My mum is INFP and she's much more motivated than me to keep the house clean. She also works hard to run a business and definitely isn't inconsistent with that like I am with school. I actually have a maths assessment today which I didn't study much for, hence I bludged and spent most of the day reading mbti central...because I'm bad. :mrgreen:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    I tend to think of Ps as "wanderers" and Js as "directed." I agree with Lurker... although I only know one INTJ and he is very driven, he also knows his goals specifically (like getting into a top-notch grad school) and goes for them (by doing a lot of sports/other activities and seeking out internships and stuff over summers). I also know only one INTP, lol me, and I have a much more circular and open ended learning/working style. I basically want to do what I love, and I love to find out about the world around me. That leads me to go "hey... what about the physical world?" and study physics. Then "hey... how do people see the world around them?" and find a bunch of different people and spend nights (almost everyone is more open to discussion after 1 or 2 in the morning) talking to them. Then "hey, does science really cover all of reality?" and look into logic theory and theology. Most recently it's been "how do feelings affect people and is there any 'right' or 'natural' way to experience them?"

    Ps can be very hard workers and pour tremendous amounts of energy into things--I've actually skipped food for a day without realizing it because I was too into something at the time--but we're much less decisive about what it is we want to/should do to accomplish the goal. We're also really easily sidetracked (I have a P friend who would come and play Bridge with us at 12:30 even if he had a 4 or 5 page paper due in 13 or 14 hours that he hadn't started yet), but the smarter ones seem to rarely fail to get something done "in time" (although our personal "in time" may be different than a deadline a teacher would set, but it's usually a conscious choice to not worry about meeting their deadlines so much).

    Then there're a few other normal things you can read everywhere... Js are more organized and tend to find/make some order in their lives... Ps will drop stuff wherever there's room and deal with it later (ie deal with it never). INTPs at least will drop things anywhere that will be "out of the way" and ignore it until it's needed or gets in the way of something else. To Js it looks horribly disorganized--and it is--but we (again, the smart ones at least) always know where everything is, as long as we were the ones who dropped it there. If someone goes in and moves something or organizes it for us, it's maddening because now we don't know where the stuff is anymore--even if they explain the order to us.

    Ps are at our best when we're allowed to wander and work on things when we want, as opposed to any fixed schedule. If I make something a sort of life goal, say, "learn about the world around me," I'll make progress that leaves other people stunned, because I can just mix work and play naturally. If you stick me in an office or classroom with stuff I don't care about, though, and say "ok for the first 15 minutes of class we'll be doing X, then get together in groups and discuss Y..." telling me exactly what's needed, I'll tune it out almost every time and dismiss it as irrelevant--after all, I'll find out what we're doing when the time comes, right? Why worry about it now? Js, on the other hand, don't seem to understand that, and would rather know what they're getting themselves into beforehand, and feel more comfortable when there's a plan set in place. Basically, Ps are more "circular" in their learning and "figure it out when the time comes" people. Js are more "focused," "directed," and "plan ahead" people.

    at least... that's what I've been able to gather. I only know 3 Js, and they're all TJs... so my generalizations might be influenced more by seeing the thinkers, so it may not include you guys... but to the best of my knowledge those are the differences.

    oh that's right, I forgot... I think Ps tend to have lower self-esteem too. That's not because it's a P trait, but just because the world doesn't seem to value the P style of learning very much anymore. That may just be because I have two strongly J parents, however, who thought that people who didn't plan ahead and know exactly what they were getting into are foolish. I think it's the same kind of reason that most INs have low self-confidence too, because introverts are (or at least I was) raised to think we're supposed to want a lot of friends, and intuitives are classically misunderstood. The combination of few people understanding your thoughts and not sharing them much in the first place tends to make you doubt your mind a lot. I think Ps are under the same kind of effect... not that there are few Ps, but just that P-ness isn't valued as highly.
     
  8. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Threads:
    78
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    Damn frozen ^ ^ good stuff but lot's of that I can relate to! My Jay is very broken :?


    source

    There’s also a list of statements that generally apply if you click on the link. I find they generally confuse things though so *shrug*
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Kwistalline

    Kwistalline Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Threads:
    24
    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    In response to frozen, the whole organization thing isn't quite right!!

    I am INFJ with ENTJ roomate.
    Guess which is the tidy one? Me. Roomate? Not at all!! She dumps and goes. ALl the time. Always busy, always on the go, always dumping . . . whenever, wherever . . .

    And here I am. So darned antogonistically organized that I've actually given her "official" dumping spots. She makes a half glare, rolls her eyes, and disregards.

    I could be less anal, she could be less . . lazy. But we are both very decidedly our "type".
     
  10. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    ahh'k gotcha then. Everything I've read say that Js are generally organized... but I suppose "generally" doesn't mean "always." If she were dumping her stuff in a spot that irritated me and not her, I'd probably just move it to somewhere that would irritate her and not me... but I suppose in fact you are the one who has to live with her. I think I'd freak out though... I don't react well to blatant disrespect like that.

    I'll bet she still "organizes" her life, though. Planning ahead and fixing a schedule during which you want to do something is still organization. If she doesn't do that... I'd honestly double check again, cause then I wouldn't think she'd be a J. It's also possible, of course, that if your organize her things for her when she dumps them she's just being a jerk and doesn't organize things because she knows you will... but I don't really have any reason to think that.

    Either way, I was just parroting a mix of my observations between me and an INTJ friend and the things I've read. Both shaky grounds.
     
  11. Kwistalline

    Kwistalline Permanent Fixture

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Threads:
    24
    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Frozen, I think I'll make an amendment. I was referring to physical organization. It seems that people misconstrue "organized" as "clean/tidy". She is organized in other areas, you are correct! Definitely the driven sort. But she doesn't care twopence about physical organization. That was the point.

    Not exactly sure why that mattered . . .. :?

    :D
     
  12. G.Kai

    G.Kai Community Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I think J people tend to see P types as unorganized. Looking more closely, the main difference is in the style of organization. When comes to being organized, "P" stands for piles. A driven P type will be extremely organized while looking like a mess. But when you ask a P about the mess, they'll tell you, "But I know where everything is," and many times they do. They can fish a folder out of the middle of a pile that I could never make sense out of. For me, a dyed-in-the-wool J, I'm obsessed with having everything put away and out of sight, but that doesn't mean I'm going to remember where I put it. I have a good friend who is INFP. She's a piler. She tells me that when she puts everything away, she has anxiety because she can't see it anymore. She says, "If I can't see it, I don't know I have it."

    P types also have beautifully wandering minds. They are sentimental. I once knew an NTP who would say, "I'm going to spend all day Saturday organizing my photographs." She would spend the first 15 minutes really working at it, then next thing ya know, she's just looking at the pictures with her mind off in some faraway place. After a few hours, she'd put her photograph envelopes back into the same pile.

    I believe J types are far more concerned with the appearance of being organized, because of fear of judgment from others about being sloppy. As a J, I would never want to be called a slob. If I'm caught off guard and don't have time to organize it, I hide it from view.

    The frustration I have with P is the argumentative thing. I think they have more of a pressing need to be right, which may come from J attacks on their organizational skills, which can start at a very young age. If a P is debating or arguing, and it's an argument they know they can't win, they'll say the argument itself is not being conducted properly. When dealing with P types, I've found the absolute worst thing I can do is suggest they might be wrong. As a J, if someone challenges a belief of mine, I want to know why, so I can change my mind if I need to.

    Despite the fact that P types are known for spontanaeity, sometimes their fear of making decisions can stand in the way of action. They like keeping their options open, sometimes to the point that they won't take an option unless they're forced between one of two. When it comes to things like picking out a college or graduate school, or a career, they may begin by saying, "I can go to any of 500 schools." Whereas a J would start with maybe 5 or fewer, and then begin narrowing down the field.

    Because of their ability to conceptualize so many options at once, P types may first come across as being very open minded. However, they are more resistant to change than the J. This can be a good combination in relationships. The J may seem like the grounded one, but the P is more steadfast in keeping things stable - maybe not in a day-to-day thing, more on a long-term basis.
     
  13. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    hehe... my INTJ friend and me had this conversation recently about "doing stuff" to get ready for grad schools in a few years. It's also really, really hard to tell which one of us is less flexible. That kid will never, ever admit he may have made a mistake or done something wrong... but he'll always say he'd change if someone could show him that he did. On the other hand I definitely speak as if I haven't the slightest bit of flexibility about things that I think I've hammered down securely... but very often I'll mull over what the other person said for weeks or even months after the conversation. I think that's the fear of decision making that you mentioned, along with extreme introversion... I feel like at least the things I argue about are so often right that even if I get carried away by someone's charisma or my brain locks up because I'm talking to someone, I won't actually bother to say "you actually might be right..." because 9 times out of 10 the minute I walk away I'll think of the perfect counterargument.

    The piles are so true too...
     
  14. Sesquipedalian

    Sesquipedalian Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    ...Js rule and Ps drool?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. wolfy

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ISFP
    I can be like that and I put it down to seeking to have an impact. Rushing towards the reward.
     
  16. in_wonderment

    in_wonderment Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    infj vs. infp in communication styles. not exactly what you want, but an interesting read nonetheless. i think it applies to infj vs. infp specifically though, not a general j vs. p.

    http://www.infjorinfp.com/docs/PreferredCommunicationStyle.htm

    "In a nutshell, INFJs are more comfortable telling other people what to do than INFPs are, despite both being introverts. INFPs are more comfortable just providing information."

    "INFPs feel uncomfortable "intruding" on other people's choices -- they want people to decide for themselves to do things. INFJs may inform up until things aren't getting done -- and then they direct (and may even take charge). This may come across as harsh or out-of-character to others, but it really isn't unnatural."

    "INFJs fool themselves into believing they only use the informing style of communication because they dilute their requests with "please," and "would you mind," and "could we maybe..." They think this dimension is really about how polite people should be. (It's not!) By "softening" their orders this way, INFJs delude themselves into believing they utilize only the informing communication style, because their self-image often prevents them from identifying with a communication style that might be perceived as "bossy" or "harsh." (I know one INFJ who concedes that she is "refreshingly direct.") INFJs bristle at being called "directing," especially when they "only want to help" or "offer some advice."

    ...yep. i could definitely see that. especially thinking that infp's are wishy washy and refuse to make decisions.
     
    PastelpinkPuppy likes this.
  17. in_wonderment

    in_wonderment Regular Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Threads:
    7
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    to me, J vs. P is difficult.

    I know several J's that are messy. and several P's that are judgemental.

    However, the way our HR department described it... think of it as a time line of getting ready. let's say you know you have to clean your closet before you leave the house this evening at 5 pm. the J's will probably start thinking about the process earlier in the week... buying boxes, sorting through other drawers. the P's won't typically plan future actions regarding closet cleaning.

    The J gets up early or on scheduled time today. Makes a list, or mental list of things needing to be accomplished. Plans the time usage for the day. Checking off actions like a train going down the track.

    A P is more circuitous. The P wakes up, starts to clean out the closet... then realize they need to go buy boxes. They go to the store, then realize they need to get groceries. They come back home, and then the phone rings, and they answer the phone and forget about cleaning the closet. Then around, 4:30, there's a flurry of action while they try to finish the task they wanted to.

    This is not to say that J's don't procrastinate - I definitely did on any school assignment. That must be sort of general human nature.

    To me, J's seemed more defined. They plan and schedule more long term. They don't like surprises as much. They can make decisions easier than Ps.

    That said, I think any FJ combo would be tough to type. The F seems to temper my J a lot. I use humor to water down any harsh judgements. And my empathy seems to prevent me from coming across as being cold.
     
    PastelpinkPuppy likes this.
  18. Lurker

    Lurker Has nothing to destroy
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Threads:
    78
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    Enneagram:
    That is sooo me. Yeah so I need another P right now for a high-five.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Threads:
    29
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    528
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    Enneagram:
    4w3
    J and P, when you look at functions, are different on whether or not their judging or percieving function is extroverted. In the primary and secondary functions, if your decision-making (T, F) function is extroverted, then you are J, and if your info-gathering (S, N) function is extroverted, then you are P.

    J's gather information internally, and make decisions on them in an extroverted manner. Therefore, they come across as more "decisive" or "organized." P's, on the other hand, react to information extrovertedly, and make decisions internally, so sometimes it's harder to see their decisive processes. A strong P will be less organized physically because their organization and decision-making processes are focused on and draw energy from an introverted source.

    When someone is balanced in their extroverted perceiving and judging functions, the J and P will become more balanced.

    I can tell the difference between P/J more by personality and the way they react than I can by how organized they are. Sometimes it's obvious; someone who's really organized is probably J, and someone who's very messy is probably P. But first and foremost, it's obvious by emotion. A P will react more quickly and more strongly to something, but their emotions will also change faster. Their interests are many and their attention is often quick to change focus.
    A J will take longer to react strongly, and they will keep that emotion for a while. They tend to be more focused on more specific undertakings.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #19 gloomy-optimist, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  20. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Threads:
    382
    Messages:
    11,688
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    Trophy Points:
    881
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    I think this ^^is the key factor between J and P. It's how information is processed, and it's not necessarily how those processes play out in a visual sense. I can tell you right now, that I am messy and I hate it. It bothers me when things are out of place. But I live with the mess sometimes because my energy is on something important (I'm also somewhat ADD, so go figure). But emotionally, I always measure situations carefully before responding. I wait and judge situations and weigh my responses against what is occurring. Mind you, I have many P preferences, but overall my key processes are Ni Fe Ti Se (with a strongly developed Fe).
     
Loading...

Share This Page