J vs P differences

Lurker said:
That is sooo me. Yeah so I need another P right now for a high-five.
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High-five! Huzzah!

I could blame my personality... But I can also blame my ADHD. I usually might do something like go home to complete a task. I end up online, looking up information about something. I then forget about the first task and move on to reading. After that, I'll talk to my friends or something. Problem is, I never remember the task I started.

Another way: Procrastination. I don't even start on cleaning my closet. Why? I really don't care. I know where the stuff I need is. Why mess with it if it has no bearing on me? I procrastinate until the last minute. I can't keep folders or stay organized at all. I'm spontaneous as well. 5 days before I had to go to court, I was like "Nope. No more smoking pot for the next few days." Two days later? "Fuck it. Let's blaze up!" After court? Rolled a fuckin' fattie.

I don't even keep stuff in a wallet. I just throw all of my belongings into my front two pockets. IDs, check cards, cash, paper with stuff written on it, keys, flash drive, change, lighter, cigarettes. Yeah, it's all in my front two pockets. Every morning, I pull all the stuff out of my pockets, put it on the dryer, get a clean pair of pants and throw everything back into the pockets. I've tried organizing those too. Money and cards in right pocket, other shit in left. Nope. Everything ends up mixed up. >:

I can't pay much attention to certain things. I could be in the middle of conversation and notice something stupid on TV or something. Like at work, we were having a discussion about the economy or something and there was a commercial on TV. Well, it showed a van with the company's logo with two people shaking hands under it. After the commercial, I stopped and said "Did you notice how long that fucking handshake was?" Seriously. The handshake was, like, 10 total seconds. That's way too long for a handshake. Uncomfortably long. If someone shook my hand that long and was being serious... I don't know what I'd do. Probably just be highly confused. Either way, they all looked at me and said "... Are you serious?"

I used to try to make myself more organized... But I've decided to procrastinate on that too. It's too much of a bitch to worry about at this point.
 
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I am the most disorganized J I have ever met. However, I need conclusions and I need a plan. I don't fit nicely into either category, but I know the judging preference is definitely stronger.

It's a fine line, but I once read of an easy way to figure this one out. If you're okay with not knowing, (e.g. calling yourself INF J/P or EST J/P)... you're a P.

A judging type would need to have a definite type.
 
You know the stereotype about a person who is messy knows where everything is? That is exactly why I like to organize things. There is no way I could ever remember arbitrary details about where I put stuff. I lose things so easily and live with continual uneasiness about what important thing is going to get lost next. I have a constant frustration with remembering any kind of arbitrary details in the external world. My dream is to have a large storage area in my house along a long hallways with cupboards and drawers I can label for all the stuff I need, but rarely use. It would be out of the way, easy to find, and not burying the other stuff like my keys. There is a kind of organization that makes life easier. Even as an elementary aged kid I would pack the family car for trips because I could save the most space while making everything accessible. The point of organizing is to expend less energy in the long-run.

I like to organize my thoughts the same way. I try to create a system that has a clear form of organization and that allows for easily adding new information. I do not like closed systems, but always create open systems. This is why I am certain of little or nothing. Everything has a likelihood of being true, but remains open for new information to be tested against. My thinking tends to be inclusive meaning I take in all information openly and observe any natural patterns that emerge. I don't have a preset or closed system by which I choose to dismiss certain kinds of information on first encounter. Everything has its place although some ends up on the "back burner" or is considered to have a minuscule likelihood of truth. I tend to reach conclusions after excessive amounts of analysis from every vantage point I can conceive of.
 
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J v P differences

Lurker said:
My answer to the OP is I don't recognise this preference in others, I look at the whole picture.

I get wary when people look at the differences between two letters as in P v J as they may be quite simple to explain as in J gets things done and P puts off, but the difference between an INJ and INP are substantial and completion of projects and such is not a big factor in deciding type.

There are INJs who hardly finish anything they start and INPs who are highly motivated, external factors and upbringing have an effect here.
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Please elucidate if you've a mind and when you have time.
 
J v P differences

gloomy-optimist said:
J and P, when you look at functions, are different on whether or not their judging or percieving function is extroverted. In the primary and secondary functions, if your decision-making (T, F) function is extroverted, then you are J, and if your info-gathering (S, N) function is extroverted, then you are P.

J's gather information internally, and make decisions on them in an extroverted manner. Therefore, they come across as more "decisive" or "organized." P's, on the other hand, react to information extrovertedly, and make decisions internally, so sometimes it's harder to see their decisive processes. A strong P will be less organized physically because their organization and decision-making processes are focused on and draw energy from an introverted source.

When someone is balanced in their extroverted perceiving and judging functions, the J and P will become more balanced.

I can tell the difference between P/J more by personality and the way they react than I can by how organized they are. Sometimes it's obvious; someone who's really organized is probably J, and someone who's very messy is probably P. But first and foremost, it's obvious by emotion. A P will react more quickly and more strongly to something, but their emotions will also change faster. Their interests are many and their attention is often quick to change focus.
A J will take longer to react strongly, and they will keep that emotion for a while. They tend to be more focused on more specific undertakings.
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What an interesting analysis, especially the last paragraph on emotions. I never thought of that or even really noticed it before. You have the most amazing perceptions.
 
J v P differences

beyond_the_sun said:
I am the most disorganized J I have ever met. However, I need conclusions and I need a plan. I don't fit nicely into either category, but I know the judging preference is definitely stronger.

It's a fine line, but I once read of an easy way to figure this one out. If you're okay with not knowing, (e.g. calling yourself INF J/P or EST J/P)... you're a P.

A judging type would need to have a definite type.
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I don't know; this seems a little oversimplified to me. I've struggled with the J v P question for weeks--maybe months now. I generally test as an INFJ, but tested once or twice as INFP, which for me threw everything into doubt. So I've read and researched and analyzed. In the process I've learned some things about myself, which turned out to be more important to me than whether there was a J or a P at the end of my MBTI code. I've learned, for example, thatf I can tolerate external clutter but must have internal order, that though even if I plan out a story I may well get sidetracked by a new insight into a character? I've learned that I'm very directing because otherwise nothing would get done, but I procrastinate as well. Finally I came to the conclusion that I have some of both preferences and it's reflected in my test scores; the J/P scores are closer than any of the others, which are rather extreme and therefore probably more definitive.

I don't mean to sound testy or rude and you may very well be right. I still don't know if I'm an INFJ or an INFP. Anyone out there want to hazard a guess?
 
I'm also a bordeline case. I thought I was INFP for ages, but I've come to realise I was more likely a beaten down INFJ, rather than an unhappy INFP. Working at being a happy INFP made me consider that I wasn't one at all, because of the ordered way I was going about it. So I took the test, being more honest to the present rather than my future ideals and came out J. Revelation!

I do enjoy looking at the world through a P perspective though. I aspire to it, and I work at it, because I'd like to be kinder and more perceptive than I feel I am. So I put a lot of energy into being non-judgmental, but behind that, my instinct is always to judge, unless I manage to get myself into a hypnotic state through some form of meditation. Then I'm more like a smiling cabbage than an INFP.

I like the idea of not categorising things and people, of not labelling anything, but I do it anyway. I like the idea of being disorganised and spontaneous, and can tolerate clutter for a while, because I hate wasting my time cleaning up. However, actually living in a mess for any length of time is very frustrating for me, so I inevitably do tidy up when it gets too much.

I become very discontented with a lack of progress and direction and need some kind of structure to get anything done effectively. I'm quite lazy, by habit, yet feel much happier if I achieve something, but need lists and calendars etc to manage this.
I also have a need to know what I'm getting myself into before I make a decision. I hate on the spot decisions. Even if it's choosing from a menu. Set menu please, crisis over.
I research things and plan my reactions and rehearse my speaking part where possible. Inevitably things don't go the way I planned anyway, but sometimes it helps me feel more in control.

Still, I test 50/50 on P/J, so I don't have the security of knowing for certain which camp I belong to. Is it even so important? On the one hand, no, when I consider how insignificant my life is in contrast to the all and everything, but on the other, yes, I can't feel content not knowing what I am, and conseqently how to improve on it. The P part of me isn't too bothered, I tell myself, but the J can't stand that, hence I've just gone with my gut feeling of INFJ, to keep it quiet. ;)
 
Is it weird that I really, really want this system?
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gloomy-optimist said:
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I can tell the difference between P/J more by personality and the way they react than I can by how organized they are. Sometimes it's obvious; someone who's really organized is probably J, and someone who's very messy is probably P. But first and foremost, it's obvious by emotion. A P will react more quickly and more strongly to something, but their emotions will also change faster. Their interests are many and their attention is often quick to change focus.
A J will take longer to react strongly, and they will keep that emotion for a while. They tend to be more focused on more specific undertakings.
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You have some interesting comments here. I have a feel for what you are saying about the emotional responses, but I'm wondering how that relates to Fi or Fe. It seems like Fi feels things quite deeply and has a constancy whereas Fe is more external and in the moment. For the NFs it would make the P and J difference opposite from the NTs. The INTJ has tertiary Fi and the INTP has Fe as the fourth function, so it would parallel what you are saying, but I might hesitate to say an INFP's feelings would be fleeting. Although, I'm more likely an INFJ and I definitely feel things very slow and hard. I never even had fleeting crushes when a child and teeny bopper like all my friends. I felt deep attachments even around age 10 that would last for years. I definitely could have done the whole Juliet thing at age 14.
 
It's not so much Fe/Fi as Ne/Ni ;) The perceiving functions determine P/J. Extroverted perceiving functions as a dominant functions make for quicker reactions to things, and it also allows them to not hold on to those reactions as long.
 
beyond_the_sun said:
I am the most disorganized J I have ever met. However, I need conclusions and I need a plan. I don't fit nicely into either category, but I know the judging preference is definitely stronger.

It's a fine line, but I once read of an easy way to figure this one out. If you're okay with not knowing, (e.g. calling yourself INF J/P or EST J/P)... you're a P.

A judging type would need to have a definite type.
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How can you validate this statement? Understand that i'm not questioning you, but rather looking for legitimate reason to distinguish between the two.

I'm caught in the middle, and it bothers the holy crap out of me. I see a lot of myself in both profiles, and i'm not sure exactly what to do with that. It varies on what test I take, but I'd much rather know for certain.
 
Vince said:
How can you validate this statement? Understand that i'm not questioning you, but rather looking for legitimate reason to distinguish between the two.

I'm caught in the middle, and it bothers the holy crap out of me. I see a lot of myself in both profiles, and i'm not sure exactly what to do with that. It varies on what test I take, but I'd much rather know for certain.
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If it helps, don't think about the J/P so much. Think of all the main individual cognitive processes that make up the actual person. INFJ uses these processes (for the most part): Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. INFP uses these: Fi-Ne-Si-Te.

You can read the information about the individual processes here: INFP and INFJ. You might need to scroll down to see the information.

Generally, Fi is usually self-motivated while Fe is usually other-motivated (although, I'd confirm this with other type gurus! That's how I can tell the difference, though).
 
I actually think my J is pretty well developed.. it's just that it's not my natural choice. If people come to me with complaints, I usually direct them towards problem solving on their own.

For example, my boyfriend was talking about wanting to leave civilization and build a cabin in the woods and never come back and lamenting the fact that he's afraid to do so because this is all he's known... I told him spend a few months studying survivalist books etc. etc. and go on naturalist excursions with his primativist friend.

I basically gave him no excuse not to study all he can and gain as much experience as possible so that he can actually go and live as a wild-man someday. If he's serious, I hope he does it.

I'm actually a fairly structured person, very regimented. I've had to be. When there's an issue or a problem or a pain in the ass obligation, I sort of attack it and solve it.
 
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This is an interesting topic , and I had asked a question similar to this in another thread. I am an INFJ, but I found that this type can easily be confused with an INFP. I think the main aspects that make me a J are that I do appreciate order and stability in my life, and I am not spontaneous whatsoever. I build somewhat of a schedule in my day to day life, and hate having it interrupted. For example, if I'm at school for the day, I have already planned that I will come home, cook supper, shower, and then have some time for myself. Everything needs to scheduled around this. If even something as small as a phone call interrupts this, it can make me agitated. I can't stand surprise visits, even from close friends, as it interrupts my schedule! I can be very organized and tidy when it comes to my own belongings, and with things like school. Many times though I do have a habit of leaving things where they shouldn't be (I have ADD and this contributes to my absentmindedness) But with my own space I am very neat and tidy. While I like things to be orderly and set, I am not the best planner, so I normally need someone to help me plan future events, and I am not the best at remembering to get things done, such as booking appointments, paying bills, ect. I think having ADD interferes with this. I still believe I relate more to the J than the P.
 
I don't believe that being a J is correlated with being a judgemental person...especially since an INFJ is also known for being very kind and compassionate. I think it more has to do with being direct and focused, which possibly means that they may at times be more candid and have a take charge attitude, more so than an INFP. I may be wrong on this, it is just what I have observed and read. There are still things I would like to determine for sure.
 
In my last post I wanted to quote Helpful Elf's post, but I don't really know how to quote properly. =) I'm technically challenged with this.
 
Something that I had noticed or thought about, when it comes to the "J or P" differences would be:
  • That last function is how we "act in the world", and the opposite to be quite true at home. The fun loving, Spontaneous P can be guarded and ridged. As the typical straight shooting J can be indecisive. (All the while the opposite is more true in the public eye.)
If you might be looking for the differences between the INFJ and The INFP, it would be in the order of their functions.

INFJ:
INFJ - Pattern of Processes​


ROLE PROCESS SNAPSHOT
THE PRIMARY PROCESSES​


LeadingIntroverted iNtuiting Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects

SupportingExtraverted Feeling Connecting and considering others and the group

ReliefIntroverted ThinkingAnalyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles

AspirationalExtraverted SensingExperiencing and acting in the immediate context.


INFP:
INFP - Pattern of Processes​


ROLE PROCESS SNAPSHOT
THE PRIMARY PROCESSES​



LeadingIntroverted Feeling Valuing and considering importance, beliefs, and worth

SupportingExtraverted iNtuiting Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts

ReliefIntroverted SensingReviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data

AspirationalExtraverted ThinkingSegmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing
 
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To see the real difference between to two temperaments, it is helpful to see how each response to stress:
  • As an INFJ... I suck at the use of "sensing" as it is the function with the least amount of use/skill from me. Sensing is the skill or focus of the "physical world and things" around me, and my perceived need/use of them. If I want to know if something: looks good, tastes good, runs well, or a great house, car or makeup... I will ask a sensor, as I really have no idea. - Thoughts about them never consume my mind or attention. Nor, do they consume my language. You won't hear me talking about the "stuff" I want and own. I work/talk about ideas or theories.

    When I am weakened or stressed, this "sensing" function goes haywire and I am crazily lead by something I am terrible at. Bascially, messing up everything through it. I go overboard, too much of something/anything: lists, obsessive, overeating, sleeping... you name it. I forget balance.

    Others that share this with me: INTJ; ENTP; ENFP
  • As an INFP... I suck at the use of "thinking" as it is the function with the least amount of use/skill from me. I don't rely on the use of cold hard, fact-based logic or my logic doesn't come from an unemotional approach. My decisions and look at life are from an emotional heart based point-of-view, and I think that head-only thinking is too harsh. You won't hear of me analyzing, data collecting, fact only language; My words, my interests come from the heart. I work/talk about personal touch to things or others.

    When I am weakened or stressed, this "thinking" function goes haywire and I am crazily lead by something I am terrible at. Basically, messing up everything through it. I start analyzing everything, hugely critical, can feel useless and totally incompletent.

    Others that share this with me: ISFP; ESFJ; ENFJ
 
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