Is life worth living
- Thread starter Tin Man
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I think that if you're enjoying yourself, you tend not to ask yourself these kinds of questions.
I don't think I can answer either way. Worth what? Life just is, and we don't know why. Maybe one day, should we have the chance to glimpse at the larger picture, we may be able to evaluate whether these trials and processes were worth the journey. For now, the greater question for me is how I live it. The first question was whether I wanted to continue to live; after having said "I might as well" or "yes", I decided it then made sense to make the best of it according to how I conceive that at the present time.
If the question is whether the trials and tribulations are a small part to pay for the experience of being alive and bearing witness to the process of consiousness... I don't know. I used to be inclined to say yes, but I have begun to feel increasingly frustrated and depressed over not knowing why we're here in the first place. I suppose I'm being a little immature and controlling, maybe pouting in a manner of speaking, but I'd really like to know more than I currently do, and to inherently understand why I'm aware of being aware and able to take place in this grand scheme in the first place.
If the question is whether the trials and tribulations are a small part to pay for the experience of being alive and bearing witness to the process of consiousness... I don't know. I used to be inclined to say yes, but I have begun to feel increasingly frustrated and depressed over not knowing why we're here in the first place. I suppose I'm being a little immature and controlling, maybe pouting in a manner of speaking, but I'd really like to know more than I currently do, and to inherently understand why I'm aware of being aware and able to take place in this grand scheme in the first place.
Maybe they all stalemated each other and decided not to conclude, because they knew that they'll never come to an agreed conclusion, anyway.
That is a really perplexing thing to say. Has he been dead before? Well he must've been alive to experience it, therefore there is no such thing as death.
Living is a process. While perceivers may think that the journey is just as, if not more, important than the destination - it is the destination that defines what a journey is. Analogously, it is our intention, self-chosen purpose, or goal that defines our particular process of living.
I agree with your friend, that a moment of life is eminently better than nothingness. This is because each type of existence has its own perfection and can attain a greater, or lesser degree of its own type of perfection. When you see a beautiful tree, it is a wonderful creature; and a tree that has flourished, flowered and borne fruit is even better to observe because it has attained a certain fullness of tree-ish perfection.
What is the perfection of a human? In terms of what we have in common with other mammals it is to see an elderly couple surrounded with children and grandchildren - perhaps -. In terms of what makes us unique from other animals is to have attained wisdom - that is, a profound understanding not only of what what surrounds us, but of truth itself. And having attained wisdom, to have shared in its goodness.
I agree with your friend, that a moment of life is eminently better than nothingness. This is because each type of existence has its own perfection and can attain a greater, or lesser degree of its own type of perfection. When you see a beautiful tree, it is a wonderful creature; and a tree that has flourished, flowered and borne fruit is even better to observe because it has attained a certain fullness of tree-ish perfection.
What is the perfection of a human? In terms of what we have in common with other mammals it is to see an elderly couple surrounded with children and grandchildren - perhaps -. In terms of what makes us unique from other animals is to have attained wisdom - that is, a profound understanding not only of what what surrounds us, but of truth itself. And having attained wisdom, to have shared in its goodness.
I don't understand why so many of you reply with a simple "yes," as the OP is looking for some sort of reasoning and debate on the issue. No, there is no meaning other than that created by us. From a biological viewpoint, the human brain has developed to a stage in which a person experiences that there exists something that he understands to be a separate "I" that can relate to the "outside world" and reflect on things such as explanations and meanings in order to make sense of and better manage his environment. As a byproduct of this neurological development, the self-aware man has begun to apply this meaning-giving tendency of his to questions that he is able to come up with but that have absolutely no connection to empirical reality. Such absurd questions include the "meaning of life." First of all, there is no such thing as life. It is a figment of our imagination. "Life" is a heuristic, practical word, not an ontological quality. Separating organic matter from inorganic matter and "living organisms" from complex organic molecules and structures is based on nothing more than agreed scientific convention. In essence, what an organism, including us human beings, actually is, is a temporary, fluid cluster of various physical and chemical processes. There is no such thing as life - therefore it is utterly absurd to postulate that there exists any "meaning of life" outside of those meanings that we create ourselves.
Whether life is worth living or not cannot depend on whether life has objective meaning, which can be refuted. As all meanings of life must be subjectively created, and as the sense of whether life is worth living depends on the sense of meaning one attributes to one's life, the sense of whether life is worth living or not depends entirely on subjectively construed meanings. Therefore it cannot be said that life, objectively speaking, either is or is not worth living, as such experiences can be deduced to be nothing more than subjective constructions. For me, life is worth living simply because I fear death and do not wish for it. If life became unbearable due to a physical and/or mental illness or other undesirable circumstances, life would not be worth living, but I haven't come to that point thus far in my life. However, this is nothing but a subjectively construed experience, which doesn't imply that life would be worth living to all those in my situation. Someone may conclude that they simply want to die out of curiosity, for example, but as life inherently has no objective meaning and all meanings are subjectively construed, it is just as valid a subjective construction of meaning-giving as my own experience of wanting to live is.
Whether life is worth living or not cannot depend on whether life has objective meaning, which can be refuted. As all meanings of life must be subjectively created, and as the sense of whether life is worth living depends on the sense of meaning one attributes to one's life, the sense of whether life is worth living or not depends entirely on subjectively construed meanings. Therefore it cannot be said that life, objectively speaking, either is or is not worth living, as such experiences can be deduced to be nothing more than subjective constructions. For me, life is worth living simply because I fear death and do not wish for it. If life became unbearable due to a physical and/or mental illness or other undesirable circumstances, life would not be worth living, but I haven't come to that point thus far in my life. However, this is nothing but a subjectively construed experience, which doesn't imply that life would be worth living to all those in my situation. Someone may conclude that they simply want to die out of curiosity, for example, but as life inherently has no objective meaning and all meanings are subjectively construed, it is just as valid a subjective construction of meaning-giving as my own experience of wanting to live is.
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sramana said:
sramana said:
If there is no such things as life, how can we make an approximate label through language? That would make imagination as real as physical and chemical processes then, if one uses mental imagery and classifications to explain the physical processes. Some say consciousness is the ground of being, rather than the physical and chemical processes, or imagination it seems. So life and its thoughts are generally subjective, but this does not mean that a vast majority of people cannot agree on one thing- that life can be used to improve itself. I dont know of anyone who wants their life to go to shit, so I'd say wanting to improve one's life (and if the person understands the connectedness of all humans, they want to improve everyones life and the future) is fairly equitable. Even animals want to improve their quality of life by finding food, rest, and some recreation. Maybe the reason life is worth living is ingrained in us, that we should continue improving our lives and the lives of everything around us.
Life doesnt have any meaning. The individual gives meaning to his own life. Sometimes, an honorable death is better than a useless life. In the end, we all go to eternal darkness and void, like when we werent still born. So drink, sing and rejoice when you can and fight when you need, for someday we will all be gone and all the sorrow and struggle you lived through wont matter at all. The only thing that remains is the memories of glory and good times on your fellow people, that someday will be forgotten too.
Wow thank you [MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION], this is truly beautiful and wise
Pardon my language, but BULLSHIT. If you never existed, people wouldn't know you. You were conceived, born, records printed in a hospital. Raised by parents, or someone, maybe had siblings or other present family members, friends neighbors, schoolmates, co-workers. People have memories of YOU. YOU impact OTHERS. Vice versa, you have memories of OTHERS. They impact you. We are all shared experiences. If you never existed, you wouldn't know what it felt like to be alive. You wouldn't know those depressive suicidal feelings, or any other feelings you had before. If you die, you will cease to influence the world, and the world influence you, no matter how significant. /rant
That reminds of this poem by John Donne:
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
My personal belief is that one doesn't need to look for meaning, one doesn't need to try and leave their mark since just by living you've already done this.
Good or bad, sometimes we get what we dont deserve. Now, we can communicate all over the world some of the good things we got that we dont deserve and even spread the gracefulness of the universe, which in itself is something we havent deserved. Even in all the horrible acts humanity has performed, we have progressed to now and are still progressing. There is no entitlement, but that doesnt matter.
It does matter, to human beings. Expectations are counter-balanced by insecurity. The problem is not that we didnt get what we deserved, its that we thought we were entitled to anything to begin with.
"you dont get what you deserve, you get what you get" -Gregory House