Introverted Intuition

[Paladin-X]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about one's type, what the personality profiles have to say, what the functions or letters do, etc. I have been trying to think of a way to share a simplified, but concrete, explanation of all of the functions over the last couple of weeks, but I haven't found a good way to express my interpretation of them yet.

In the mean time. Since most who come to this forum probably believe they are/were/or might be an INFJ, why don't we share what our functions mean to us and compare, rather than how 100s of different sources try to explain what it is.


Let's start with Introverted Intuition (henceforth known as Ni). Try to think from personal experience. What does Ni mean to you? How do you think it differs from Extraverted Intuition (Ne)? Extraverted Sensing (Se)? Introverted Sensing (Si)? Can you provide an example from your past where you used Ni? How do you use it in your day to day life? For example, think of how you use Ni to learn something new.

NOTE: If possible, try to think of another way you use it than with describing AHA moments. Even sensing types experience them, though I think intuitives do so more, but I'm biased!

 

[Jana]

I would easier describe that in picture, Ne is seing many directions from one point, Ni is seing a) one object from many side b) from one point all through. It is why Ne users often have so much creative ideas ("We could do that and that and that or that...")

Example:
I have coleague at work who is probably INTP. When we cooperate, she comes up with few ideas. Then I pick up one and just see how it can look at the and and then I finish it.

 

[Paladin-X]

I would easier describe that in picture, Ne is seing many directions from one point, Ni is seing a) one object from many side b) from one point all through. It is why Ne users often have so much creative ideas ("We could do that and that and that or that...")

Example:
I have coleague at work who is probably INTP. When we cooperate, she comes up with few ideas. Then I pick up one and just see how it can look at the and and then I finish it.

Haha! I love collaborating with Ne types for this reason! For example, I had to make a one minute movie storyboard for English class. I was stumped. My INFP buddy provided me with about 8 completely different ideas. I picked one that I liked and developed it greatly in-depth on my own. Once I had the context to work within, I could generate endless possibilities.

I had read in the Neuroscience of Personality, than Ne types essentially look at everything in various metaphors and such. You can give them a simple object, such as an apple. They will give you, on the spot, several different metaphors or contexts to describe the apple or the meaning of the apple or, or... I confirmed this with a couple of INFPs I know. It's not to say that any other type cannot think of metaphors or contexts, it is just that Ne types tend to do this inherently and excel at it.

We can both generate very quickly multiple possibilities. However, Ni usually needs a context to work off of. It needs a problem to solve or a question to answer. It needs to converge upon something. It is essentially a process that lets you see what you want to see (I don't mean this in the bad way that this phrase usually is used). Another reason why I think more than that of any other type, Ni types are the ones that confuse their type most. Because Ni may easily tell them how they exhibit Ne, Ni, Se, Si, Fe, Fi, Te, Ti traits! This does not happen to all Ni types, because not everyone questions/overthinks it as much as others do. We might confuse ourselves, not because our intuition is weak (although that does happen to some) but it is because we are so good at using our intuition.

Ne on the other hand is a creative brainstorming process. It likes to work off of a point and identify multiple contexts, rather than go in-depth on a specific context. It doesn't want to converge, it wants to expand. More possibilities!

Let's think of a sales database on a computer for a moment. Se is the raw data, the numbers. Si are qualifiers/historical comparison trends in current reports of the raw data. Perhaps comparing how sales are up or down compared to last quarter. Ne provides several quick glance forecasted trends. Ni provides the in-depth forecast report on a specific trend.

 

[Jana]

We can both generate very quickly multiple possibilities. However, Ni usually needs a context to work off of. It needs a problem to solve or a question to answer. It needs to converge upon something.

I think this is very true...if I get the task or problem, I know what I should do.

 

[Lemonworld]

The descriptions of Ni and Ne confuse me. The more I read, the more I wonder how much of Jung's original theory has been lost in all the various translations.

Presuming that I am not incorrectly typed and that I predominantly use Ni, I would describe it as a largely unconscious process. I am not aware that I am doing it, but it occurs to me after the fact in very specific 'pictures'. Sometimes the deeper meaning isn't immediately obvious and it requires time and simply letting my mind wander in order to see the relevance. For example, I can be in the middle of a project and just suddenly stop working, aware that something is inconsistent or wrong, but not yet knowing how to solve it. Trying to force a solution does not work for me. It's usually after I have given up making a deliberate effort and moved on to something new that the answer will simply occur, out of seemingly nowhere, presented as a very clear inference. One of those AHA! moments, as you say.

I then take a more direct approach and build around my intuition, and flesh it out more consciously, so that it can be understood by others. Often that is the most difficult part for me - describing my ideas so that they do not sound crazy or simply illogical to other people. Sometimes this involves using metaphors or imagery, but more often it just involves words and patiently building up a feasible explanation. Once I have come to a conclusion this way, I almost never doubt it. I just have an absolute certainty that it is correct for what I am trying to express, and even if I have no evidence to support it, I will stick by my idea. I'm not sure whether this is a strength or weakness.

I'm not a good brain stormer, and I'm pretty lousy at coming up with lots of ideas on the spot. But like you both said, I also tend to narrow in on something very specific and then finish it to completion, rather than expanding it or leaving it open. For all of that, who knows - I might be an incorrectly typed sensor. Either way I'd like to learn more about Ni. It seems so much like smoke and mirrors.

 

[Shaqie]

For me Ni is the ability to have the inability to sleep.

 

[CindyLou]

The descriptions of Ni and Ne confuse me. The more I read, the more I wonder how much of Jung's original theory has been lost in all the various translations.

Presuming that I am not incorrectly typed and that I predominantly use Ni, I would describe it as a largely unconscious process. I am not aware that I am doing it, but it occurs to me after the fact in very specific 'pictures'. Sometimes the deeper meaning isn't immediately obvious and it requires time and simply letting my mind wander in order to see the relevance. For example, I can be in the middle of a project and just suddenly stop working, aware that something is inconsistent or wrong, but not yet knowing how to solve it. Trying to force a solution does not work for me. It's usually after I have given up making a deliberate effort and moved on to something new that the answer will simply occur, out of seemingly nowhere, presented as a very clear inference. One of those AHA! moments, as you say.

I then take a more direct approach and build around my intuition, and flesh it out more consciously, so that it can be understood by others. Often that is the most difficult part for me - describing my ideas so that they do not sound crazy or simply illogical to other people. Sometimes this involves using metaphors or imagery, but more often it just involves words and patiently building up a feasible explanation. Once I have come to a conclusion this way, I almost never doubt it. I just have an absolute certainty that it is correct for what I am trying to express, and even if I have no evidence to support it, I will stick by my idea. I'm not sure whether this is a strength or weakness.

I'm not a good brain stormer, and I'm pretty lousy at coming up with lots of ideas on the spot. But like you both said, I also tend to narrow in on something very specific and then finish it to completion, rather than expanding it or leaving it open. For all of that, who knows - I might be an incorrectly typed sensor. Either way I'd like to learn more about Ni. It seems so much like smoke and mirrors.

This does sound like me. I have a difficulty communicating it. Usually, my moments either happen as it unfolds, as in I'm able to see the whole thing for what it is and wonder why can't anyone else seeeeeeeee, or it happens suddenly like MY eyes were suddenly opened, and when that happens it is way more exciting. Haha.

Just want to add: I'm not sure abut my type, or any of the letters or functions. I just don't know...

 

[ImpureHedonism]

Ne on the other hand is a creative brainstorming process. It likes to work off of a point and identify multiple contexts, rather than go in-depth on a specific context. It doesn't want to converge, it wants to expand. More possibilities!

Let's think of a sales database on a computer for a moment. Se is the raw data, the numbers. Si are qualifiers/historical comparison trends in current reports of the raw data. Perhaps comparing how sales are up or down compared to last quarter. Ne provides several quick glance forecasted trends. Ni provides the in-depth forecast report on a specific trend.

All intuition is quick glance, that's why it's called intuition. An in-depth forecast is a Thinking process. To forecast requires thought and judgment, while intuition is just there. You don't generate intuitions by a conscious process. To talk about intuition as a quick glance, it's more about how the quick glances differ. As far as I can tell, Ni is about efficient sorting and filtering of intuitions, while Ne doesn't filter out all that much, so of course Ne people have more to say about their intuitions and therefore metaphors.

 

[CindyLou]

I am so effing confused.

 

[Lemonworld]

It is simply a mode of perception and all perceptions, both sensory and intuitive, must happen so fast that you can barely notice them. The only conscious awareness I have is a sense of ping-ping-ping-ping-ping going on in my brain, kind of like a ball being bounced back and forth between my sensory reality and my subconscious. What comes after that is a murky imagery, almost like the preview of a movie or a child's picture book, which might have no apparent similarity to what I'm looking at or touching or tasting but which I know will contain some symbolic meaning. When I say symbolic I don't mean a literal symbol, like seeing a key or a circle. It's often symbolic in an emotional sense, where something deep from my subconscious is suddenly nagging for expression.

An example: last night I was watching a documentary on tectonic plates, when suddenly I noticed a sort of story being constructed in my mind, quite without any effort on my part, where two humans were trying to survive on love and kindness alone in a world that did not want them and in which they would have to ultimately accept their insignificance. I quickly forgot about it and went back to watching tv , but I will return to that idea and build on it in a conscious way when I get a chance, because I feel it has something important to tell me.

Another *possible* example of Ni at work is when I meet someone for the first time and deduce very quickly whether or not I like them. Of course, some sensory input is going on and I am analysing their appearance, their facial expression, the inflection of their voice, etc, but on a deeper level I am making associations which might or might not be warranted. Often within seconds I decide I have a 'feeling' about someone, and that I want as little to do with them as possible. I cannot give a reasonable explanation for why, other than that on a subconscious level we do not agree.

INFJ is an odd cognitive mix. To operate on Ni alone would make you seem like one of those 'crazies', spouting on about the end of the world and making no sense to anyone. I imagine a balanced INFJ has learned to use Ni in conjunction with reliable extroverted sensing, especially. Ti is just the reactionary follow through from immediate perceptions, I imagine. Most of this stuff confuses me. I am trying to gain some clarity.

 

[Paladin-X]

All intuition is quick glance, that's why it's called intuition. An in-depth forecast is a Thinking process. To forecast requires thought and judgment, while intuition is just there. You don't generate intuitions by a conscious process. To talk about intuition as a quick glance, it's more about how the quick glances differ. As far as I can tell, Ni is about efficient sorting and filtering of intuitions, while Ne doesn't filter out all that much, so of course Ne people have more to say about their intuitions and therefore metaphors.

Haha and this is why I struggle to find good metaphors to explain things! I was incorrectly trying to explain a couple of things about my understanding of the inner workings of Ni. Which I can now see how that can be interpreted differently than how I intended. Thanks!

A forecast report seemed like an apt description to consider all that was and is, to predict the most likely outcome. It is not that we consciously assess and logically derive an outcome, it is still an unconscious process and is always inherently present or used. Also, I was driving at a sense of breadth vs depth in using 'quick glance' and 'in-depth'. The metaphor seemed like a good way to explain the underlying logic and background processes of how Ni works. But I see your point. I will try to think of another way to express the logic.

Just want to add: I'm not sure abut my type, or any of the letters or functions. I just don't know...

AWSM? (awesome!)

 

[Untitled]

I agree that it's not a process one is aware of. I've only been thinking I have this Ni process lately after I discovered MBTI. Before that I just got these flashes of insight, compelling feelings about people I met, I noticed I was noticing these reoccurring random occurrences that seem to be symbolically linked and meaningful and took them as indications for something...like let's say an old friend I hadn't seen for years...first reading an article about a difficult illness and that night I'd for example dream about this friend, next day hear their favorite song at work while someone would be talking about their old friend they hadn't seen for years and how they should call their friend...maybe at home I'd be watching TV and there's be an episode about a person who was sick and wouldn't tell anyone and tried to deal with it in secret. This type of a thing I'd take view as suspicious and call my old friend just in case.

I also often get these very clear visions as to what something could be...Like you take a certain group of people and you kind of intuitively suss them out roughly on what they seem like to you and you just get this vision of what the group could accomplish.

Another thing I do which I understand is linked to Ni is if someone explains their unhappy situation to me and they seem to be stuck with their interpretation of it and it's eating them I find it easy to reframe that story in a way that is better for them to accept and deal with to move on and learn...I suppose that is the skill that puts psychologist on our recommended careers list.

I also sometimes used to watch my friends and see them as archetypal characters... Like "Oh... she's just like Afrodite!"

Now with more knowledge about MBTI (and after reading tons of INTJ threads about Ni, which are very helpful as they like to aim for a clear concise overview on the subject...) I can reframe my experiences as Ni...or more accurately Ni-Fe-Ti as how we explain Ni is not exactly how INTJs explain it. the other functions color it too much. it's samey, but from what I gather reading INTJforum our experience can be a wee more "mystical" because of the Fe-Ti.
I personally am not ready to flush spiritual explanations down the toilet...I kind of like to think they are not mutually exclusive. Kinda like Bush Jr. said...
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." Maybe so can the spiritual and the scientific.

 

[ImpureHedonism]

Haha and this is why I struggle to find good metaphors to explain things! I was incorrectly trying to explain a couple of things about my understanding of the inner workings of Ni. Which I can now see how that can be interpreted differently than how I intended. Thanks!

I find the best way to get good metaphors is to study the scientific or empirical stuff before, and also giving yourself an example to work with, even if it seems silly. You said you're reading Psychology of Neuroscience. You can write some of what you learned, then start explaining it, rather than going straight for metaphor. I wonder at times if i/e functions are really any different. I have theories about that, mostly that introversion or extroversion are "primary" traits that determine how you use the functions everyone has. A Japanese-style chef may have a certain way of cooking fried rice. Literally speaking, it's just frying rice, and all rice frying still follows rules. Still, the Japanese-style colors everything the chef cooks in how various techniques are used. Introversion colors how functions are used.

 

[jimtaylor]

I could be very wrong in my understanding so I will simply state my experience with my own mental process and leave the validity of it hinging on whether or not I was typed correctly. If it is Ni than that is my understanding of Ni, if it is not, I have no actual understanding of how Ni functions in an individual.

For me I will see a quote like; “Every morning in Africa a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you better be running.”

When I see a saying like this, I don’t see a gazelle running from a lion. I don’t imagine how this can be applied to multiple situations or to one specific situation. Instead I take how every situation in life can applied to this one saying by going to its deeper meaning and its core truth while ignoring the very small details that make multiple situations to begin with. It does not matter that the individual chose to use the lion and the gazelle or Africa or anything else for that matter. Those are all just meaningless words that written in a certain way created the hidden or implied meaning of the saying. This is not a process; it is almost immediate, like when I read it there is this feeling of knowing. I may have to explore it for a time to be able to put it into words others can understand but from the second I read those words, I already have this understanding.

For me it is like it is stripping away all the variables to get to the core meaning or truth. This is not always correct by any means and so I do not always act on it. Instead I take that initial feeling and then put it through the rigors of logical testing to see if there is any foundation to it that gives it any value beyond it being my feeling or idea.

This example can be interwoven with many other things being the stimulus to this process. A lone rose symbolizing the beautiful delicacy of humanities existence and then as I begin to think about humanities existence, I will begin to think of a situation where that could be put to a test. I will start to construct a world using pieces of the one around me and then play out the scenario, using my thoughts on ideas on how humanity works to give the different players life. If I have nothing better to do than just a think, I will throw in a different variable or two and go on forever creating this story in my mind and then decide to explore it further at a later time. All this though created in take a lone rose in the right context and exploring what it could mean. In most contexts, a rose is simply a rose but in the right one, it can mean so much more.

Of course, I am no expert, nor have I spent the proper amount of time studying MBTI to make any type of judgment but as in any field, sometimes it is easier to decide what something isn’t before explaining what it is. So examples of multiple functionalities that are not Ni may provide a better answer than examples of Ni.

 

[Paladin-X]

I could be very wrong in my understanding so I will simply state my experience with my own mental process and leave the validity of it hinging on whether or not I was typed correctly. If it is Ni than that is my understanding of Ni, if it is not, I have no actual understanding of how Ni functions in an individual.

For me I will see a quote like; “Every morning in Africa a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up. It knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you better be running.”

When I see a saying like this, I don’t see a gazelle running from a lion. I don’t imagine how this can be applied to multiple situations or to one specific situation. Instead I take how every situation in life can applied to this one saying by going to its deeper meaning and its core truth while ignoring the very small details that make multiple situations to begin with. It does not matter that the individual chose to use the lion and the gazelle or Africa or anything else for that matter. Those are all just meaningless words that written in a certain way created the hidden or implied meaning of the saying. This is not a process; it is almost immediate, like when I read it there is this feeling of knowing. I may have to explore it for a time to be able to put it into words others can understand but from the second I read those words, I already have this understanding.

For me it is like it is stripping away all the variables to get to the core meaning or truth. This is not always correct by any means and so I do not always act on it. Instead I take that initial feeling and then put it through the rigors of logical testing to see if there is any foundation to it that gives it any value beyond it being my feeling or idea.

This example can be interwoven with many other things being the stimulus to this process. A lone rose symbolizing the beautiful delicacy of humanities existence and then as I begin to think about humanities existence, I will begin to think of a situation where that could be put to a test. I will start to construct a world using pieces of the one around me and then play out the scenario, using my thoughts on ideas on how humanity works to give the different players life. If I have nothing better to do than just a think, I will throw in a different variable or two and go on forever creating this story in my mind and then decide to explore it further at a later time. All this though created in take a lone rose in the right context and exploring what it could mean. In most contexts, a rose is simply a rose but in the right one, it can mean so much more.

Of course, I am no expert, nor have I spent the proper amount of time studying MBTI to make any type of judgment but as in any field, sometimes it is easier to decide what something isn’t before explaining what it is. So examples of multiple functionalities that are not Ni may provide a better answer than examples of Ni.

As always jimtaylor, you have hit the nail on the head. Very hard. Thank you for your explanation. I concur with your observations, exactly!

Now with more knowledge about MBTI (and after reading tons of INTJ threads about Ni, which are very helpful as they like to aim for a clear concise overview on the subject...) I can reframe my experiences as Ni...or more accurately Ni-Fe-Ti as how we explain Ni is not exactly how INTJs explain it. the other functions color it too much. it's samey, but from what I gather reading INTJforum our experience can be a wee more "mystical" because of the Fe-Ti.
I personally am not ready to flush spiritual explanations down the toilet...I kind of like to think they are not mutually exclusive. Kinda like Bush Jr. said...
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." Maybe so can the spiritual and the scientific.

Yes! Good point to note as well! This thread is about Ni from an INFJ's perception and not meant to distinguish Ni as an entity all of its own in the MBTI universe. Thanks!

 

[Paladin-X]

[MENTION=2710]jimtaylor[/MENTION]

I've thought about this a little bit more. I wonder if this resonates with you or any other as well. Essentially, Ni is a perspective. It is a given mindset or point of view through which we observe the world. And if this is true, I wonder if an AHA moment is triggered by gaining a new perspective...?

 

[jimtaylor]

[MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION] I can see it existing in that way but I can also see it existing in another way. Those aha moments are like you said, a moment where a new understanding or perspective is achieved. It is not uncommon for these things to happen often but there may be more to it.

I think of it maybe like a processor in a computer or some other type of gate keeping device sorting through data. When information goes into a processor it instantaneously processes it and sends it off so that the computer comes to an “understanding.” Now let’s say a new set of data comes that is unknown, it has to process it longer and decide where it fits in. It doesn’t just send it off randomly hoping that where it sends it will work. It will “think” where can this information fit and have its “aha” moment. Now, I would perhaps argue this is how each person works and where I think we can differ Ni from most other perspectives is in the actual unconscious decision making process of where or how that information should be understood.

Ni to me just seems like a way to process all information coming in, both external and internal. How it does it is perhaps less concrete than some of the other perspectives out there that follow a more logically explained route of processing information. This gives the perception of an “aha” moment because our conclusions do not always follow that same concrete logic that others do. We look at a flower and see the meaning to life, others look at the flower and see a beautiful array of colors, others look at the flower and see how it can be made into perfume, etc… It is still the same visual stimulation; it is a difference of how that information is understood.

So really I think every type has that “aha” ours just goes into less concrete understandings which give us that mystical quality or even random quality because to others they are completely uncorrelated in any manor but to us it is correlated.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. Haha, but for me this how I have come to understand how all of them work. I am not 100% sold on my own idea in this regard but it does make sense to me.