INFJ versus ISFJ
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My favorite Novel series is DUNE and I am currently reading all of H.P Lovecraft's short stories (He's the guy who invented the Cthulhu mythos). I also love D&D and have read most of the game books, have played several campaigns and am trying to start my own for 3.5. I pretty much live in a fantasy world in my own head.
How's that for a little more clarification?
I like some of it. Some of it is too shit to watch but if it's good I'm into it. Though I am fairly closeted about it since I can handle the looks I get for liking DnD but not anime XD.
However, I also like history, but can't even remember little facts in detail, like Dates, Names, specific places and numbers of troops etc. Si would let me memorize all that in a heartbeat and never forget it. I'd like to grow my Si just for the memory and detail bits but the tradition bits can go straight to hell.
Alright, everyone else add to this!
MacGuffin, just wanted to say I read your post. Probably other people can give you better answers about the differences between ISFJ and INFJ. One characteristic I think of is S as more oriented toward art or physical appearance.
I don't have any interest in fantasy as a genre of literature or movies. Maybe just because I never found time for it. There is so much interesting philosophy, history, and novels... I like novels about personal relationships and cultures, I guess, like Arundhati Roy and Lisa See. Like Dove Alexa, I have no memory for dates and names, but I like the social aspects of history, such as what gender roles and socioeconomic class relationships were like in various times and places. (That's more important than those lousy wars anyway
I don't have any interest in fantasy as a genre of literature or movies. Maybe just because I never found time for it. There is so much interesting philosophy, history, and novels... I like novels about personal relationships and cultures, I guess, like Arundhati Roy and Lisa See. Like Dove Alexa, I have no memory for dates and names, but I like the social aspects of history, such as what gender roles and socioeconomic class relationships were like in various times and places. (That's more important than those lousy wars anyway
Whether they're interested in fantasy or not is a bad way to go.
My best friend is an ISFJ, and he's a computer gamer nerd to a greater extent than me. He's into D&D and WoW, as well as certain fantasy novels.
The only way you can get to the nitty-gritty of determining whether someone is ISFJ or INFJ is to figure out whether they have a highly developed Si. Figuring out if you use Si or not is a lot easier than figuring out if you use Ni, since the qualities of Ni are less specific and somewhat elusive to even those who use it.
"Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones."
ISFJ's know things and make decisions based primarily upon their personal past experiences. They do this by internalizing truths into their Si from the external world. The key here is that they almost always latch onto truths that resonate with their Fe.
Example: If an ISFJ is young, and they love and value their parent, they are likely to agree with an opinion their parent has presented to them. This is because this belief resonates with their feelings, and then becomes stored into their Si. If you question that belief, the ISFJ will rigidly stick to their belief because to do otherwise would be a betrayal of their bond, which is very important to them.
When an ISFJ develops Ti, they can then go about the process of questioning their beliefs. This process can be identical to how INFJ's go about questioning their Fe + Ni reasoning.
The thing here is that the stereotypical ISFJ's will generally base their decisions and beliefs on specific facts. This means they are VERY good at remembering details.
My ISFJ friend told me the day Star Craft 2 came out that it was continuing the plot-line from SC1. I told him how silly that was because no one would remember the story from the first game... well, he remembered.
ISFJ's can't make coherent decisions in a mature way without this massive database in their head. As an INFJ, I will often reach conclusions and adopt those conclusions into my Ni model. Years later, I may forget the reasons and specifics for adopting a certain view, my Ni doesn't require the specifics, it only cares about answers.
This leads me to another key difference between the INFJ and the ISFJ.
ISFJ's have great difficulty with logic leaps. As INFJ's we often just *know* certain things to be true (whether they are true or not doesn't matter, we know.) This *knowing* is alien to the ISFJ. They know things because they've taken in specific facts that they have thought about, and reached specific conclusions. There is no holes, gaps, or inconsistencies. This can limit their worldview to what is common and knowable, where the INFJ is always flirting with the outer-reaches of the unknown.
I describe this difference to my ISFJ friend like this, when he begins to complain that there's no possible way I can know something since I am piecing together a few stray pieces of information and making a miraculous conclusion.
I tell him that I am making a guess, a flat-out guess in which I am totally believing in until proven wrong. Now, if my guesses are say 60 to 80 percent accurate, then more often than not I am able to determine things well before all the facts are present. This way of thinking grants me a statistical advantage in decision making, so long as the risk of being wrong is not too great. This is Ni.
My best friend is an ISFJ, and he's a computer gamer nerd to a greater extent than me. He's into D&D and WoW, as well as certain fantasy novels.
The only way you can get to the nitty-gritty of determining whether someone is ISFJ or INFJ is to figure out whether they have a highly developed Si. Figuring out if you use Si or not is a lot easier than figuring out if you use Ni, since the qualities of Ni are less specific and somewhat elusive to even those who use it.
"Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones."
ISFJ's know things and make decisions based primarily upon their personal past experiences. They do this by internalizing truths into their Si from the external world. The key here is that they almost always latch onto truths that resonate with their Fe.
Example: If an ISFJ is young, and they love and value their parent, they are likely to agree with an opinion their parent has presented to them. This is because this belief resonates with their feelings, and then becomes stored into their Si. If you question that belief, the ISFJ will rigidly stick to their belief because to do otherwise would be a betrayal of their bond, which is very important to them.
When an ISFJ develops Ti, they can then go about the process of questioning their beliefs. This process can be identical to how INFJ's go about questioning their Fe + Ni reasoning.
The thing here is that the stereotypical ISFJ's will generally base their decisions and beliefs on specific facts. This means they are VERY good at remembering details.
My ISFJ friend told me the day Star Craft 2 came out that it was continuing the plot-line from SC1. I told him how silly that was because no one would remember the story from the first game... well, he remembered.
ISFJ's can't make coherent decisions in a mature way without this massive database in their head. As an INFJ, I will often reach conclusions and adopt those conclusions into my Ni model. Years later, I may forget the reasons and specifics for adopting a certain view, my Ni doesn't require the specifics, it only cares about answers.
This leads me to another key difference between the INFJ and the ISFJ.
ISFJ's have great difficulty with logic leaps. As INFJ's we often just *know* certain things to be true (whether they are true or not doesn't matter, we know.) This *knowing* is alien to the ISFJ. They know things because they've taken in specific facts that they have thought about, and reached specific conclusions. There is no holes, gaps, or inconsistencies. This can limit their worldview to what is common and knowable, where the INFJ is always flirting with the outer-reaches of the unknown.
I describe this difference to my ISFJ friend like this, when he begins to complain that there's no possible way I can know something since I am piecing together a few stray pieces of information and making a miraculous conclusion.
I tell him that I am making a guess, a flat-out guess in which I am totally believing in until proven wrong. Now, if my guesses are say 60 to 80 percent accurate, then more often than not I am able to determine things well before all the facts are present. This way of thinking grants me a statistical advantage in decision making, so long as the risk of being wrong is not too great. This is Ni.
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[MENTION=1798]notmeganfox[/MENTION]
I am very interested in the way you personally deal with ISFJs. How do you manipulate them? I do--it's a survival technique. I do it unconsciously, but then I feel bad about it.
I am very interested in the way you personally deal with ISFJs. How do you manipulate them? I do--it's a survival technique. I do it unconsciously, but then I feel bad about it.
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INFJ's are more calm than ISFJ's, mainly because ISFJ's want to get things right straight away.
We see future possibility's, how ever it makes us lose sight of reality sometimes.
ISFJ's are present minded making them excellent at helping improve current
situation. Often times they are not able to articulate what it is they want.
But rest assure, they are very kind and caring and have good intentions at heart.
Conflict:
ISFJ's find fault in allot of things, whether it is justified or not. INFJ's whom can't
stand conflict very well could easily lose sight of what the ISFJ's real intention is.
The ISFJ would like to share their inner world with the INFJ. But will wait until the
INFJ opens up first because they feel that sharing their inner world first would be
too much of an emotional threat to them. If the INFJ doesn't step up than the ISFJ
might get frustrated.
Over all:
I think the ISFJ and the INFJ go brilliantly together in a couple. Although there are
some road bumps you have to dodge before we ride is smooth. The ISFJ and INFJ
are similar the way that they love and care about other people.
The only real difference is, ISFJ=present INFJ=future minded.
(Written out of own experience with my now ex girlfriend, you don't have to agree
with everything i wrote ).
We see future possibility's, how ever it makes us lose sight of reality sometimes.
ISFJ's are present minded making them excellent at helping improve current
situation. Often times they are not able to articulate what it is they want.
But rest assure, they are very kind and caring and have good intentions at heart.
Conflict:
ISFJ's find fault in allot of things, whether it is justified or not. INFJ's whom can't
stand conflict very well could easily lose sight of what the ISFJ's real intention is.
The ISFJ would like to share their inner world with the INFJ. But will wait until the
INFJ opens up first because they feel that sharing their inner world first would be
too much of an emotional threat to them. If the INFJ doesn't step up than the ISFJ
might get frustrated.
Over all:
I think the ISFJ and the INFJ go brilliantly together in a couple. Although there are
some road bumps you have to dodge before we ride is smooth. The ISFJ and INFJ
are similar the way that they love and care about other people.
The only real difference is, ISFJ=present INFJ=future minded.
(Written out of own experience with my now ex girlfriend, you don't have to agree
with everything i wrote
).
This INFJ is strongly drawn to story; but I do also find that I like story (be it movie, novel, anime, scifi or fantasy, games, what have you) that has an underlying purpose or meaning or informational/moral value to it. A story that teaches at the same time it entertains.
What Azumanga Daioh teaches, however, I can't rightly say. Still cracked up at it.
Yea lol, It's kinda silly.. But they want things open and direct. Which is in conflict with the INFJ nature which is to prevent people from feeling hurt. (And yes they get hurt very easily
, and they will hold that against you).
But rest assure, other than that it's wonderful having a ISFJ as a partner.
Hamburgers... are you sure?
this INFJ does get hurt, but not that easily... but DOES have quite a lot of trouble getting his ISFJ crush to be direct with him.
Hamburgers... are you sure?
this INFJ does get hurt, but not that easily... but DOES have quite a lot of trouble getting his ISFJ crush to be direct with him.
1- I'm a INFJ as well, yes we do get hurt. But we are less likely to hold it against people because we seek the reason behind it.
2- ISFJ's arn't particularly direct with people they don't feel comfortable with. They are often times shy. They don't tell you everything if they don't trust you.
3- Don't give me a nickname your not my friend.
P.S. For the record, ISFJ are good at analyzing people too (they see through bullcrap). If you have a crush on her she will probably have noticed. If she doesn't respond to you in the way you'd like than, well than you make the guess.
Could still give it a try though.
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3- Don't give me a nickname your not my friend.
Oh, it's an expression (progression is 'hmmm' -> 'hmmmbrgr' -> 'hamburgers'), not a nickname =)
Oh she knows; I've told her flat out, and she spends more time talking to me than ever... which seems counter-intuitive to the fact that she doesn't initiate often or ask much.
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That's a product of secondary Fe. IxFJ's share this in that they often have a lot to say, but will only speak it when they are promted in a specefic way. When that happens they can actually talk a lot, and will not want to stop talking.
Oh don't worry about her not initiating much, that's pretty normal. I'd say your heading in the right direction.
Just keep the course, once she develops feelings towards you it's a done deal. Cause ISFJ's are very emotional people (even more than INFJ imo.) plus the fact that she is a female. 1 more plus about the ISFJ's, they are very loyal.
My advice:
-Take the lead. (Show her how much you love her).
-Be patient, let her feelings grow.
Many INFJs look superficially like INTJ's. It's hard to tell them apart, however the parts that differentiate them from INTJ's are also common bonds which are shared with ISFJs. If you see what looks like an INTJ but has an F-based value system in their private life, then they're probably an INFJ.
Memory usage is also a biggie. I can only speak from experience when I say that when I receive concrete information, my mind tends to abstract the information -- the process of abstraction makes the information vague enough that I can more easily fit the information into other systems, but the granularity of the information suffers. ISFJs seem to do the opposite, they tend to receive and store the concrete information without abstracting it so much, as such their memory tends to be more spot-on but they are at a slight disadvantage when ti comes to transferring what they learned over to new, similar concepts.
Oddly enough, many ISFJs can appear quite intelligent to the point where you can see their Ti. However i've noticed that ISFJs dont tend to have much patience for theoretical or abstract conversations (in an "oh look a butterfly" type of way). They seem to get bored of it more easily than an INFJ would, though they're only half as flighty in this regard as an ESFJ is (much in the same way we might get flighty about how slutty Jessica looks in that outfit or what Steve (you know, mailroom steve) did last night).
Memory usage is also a biggie. I can only speak from experience when I say that when I receive concrete information, my mind tends to abstract the information -- the process of abstraction makes the information vague enough that I can more easily fit the information into other systems, but the granularity of the information suffers. ISFJs seem to do the opposite, they tend to receive and store the concrete information without abstracting it so much, as such their memory tends to be more spot-on but they are at a slight disadvantage when ti comes to transferring what they learned over to new, similar concepts.
Oddly enough, many ISFJs can appear quite intelligent to the point where you can see their Ti. However i've noticed that ISFJs dont tend to have much patience for theoretical or abstract conversations (in an "oh look a butterfly" type of way). They seem to get bored of it more easily than an INFJ would, though they're only half as flighty in this regard as an ESFJ is (much in the same way we might get flighty about how slutty Jessica looks in that outfit or what Steve (you know, mailroom steve) did last night).
My sister laurie (INFJ on here) like those, we got D&D between us and played it with our xxxP, xSxx, INxP and ESFJ friends. The P loved it, the S messed around and lost the dice, the INxP was confused and the ESFJ was bored. Me (ENTP) and INFJ loved it!
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MacGuffin said:
Personally that's not my thing. sci-fi stuff can be interesting but I don't drool over it or go out of my way to look for it. DD isn't my thing because roll playing makes me feel quite akward no matter where it is or who it is with. I might have fun with it, but I tend to think that I wouldn't.
I like Scifi, DnD, Chess, complex board games (e.g.: Arkham Horror, Settlers of Catan) all that geeky stuff.
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