INFJ Leaders of History | Page 9 | INFJ Forum

INFJ Leaders of History

You are a idiot...big time, the kind you rarely meet in life. Relax, its in your nature, you are a INFJ.
Edit: I remember in the voice recording thread, even the way you talk sounds self-important. You speak exactly like a idiot, proof that I'm never wrong about people.

What is bother me more than anything is you inconsistent attidute. You flip from one side to another, without any apparent reason.

Sorry mate, you're full of it. I'm a very consistent person with enough drive and intelligence to make up for my shortcomings. What's more, I engage with teams and groups that will balance out my self-centred and impractical nature because the end goal is more important than my ego. Even if I have to be an idiot, things still get done because I try my best to take responsibility for my shortcomings. You're just plain wrong about this one!
 
I'm not doing by typology.

Alright then. I have nothing left to say to you and i'm not interested into taking this conversation/debate/whatever further.
 
Sorry mate, you're full of it. I'm a very consistent person with enough drive and intelligence to make up for my shortcomings. What's more, I engage with teams and groups that will balance out my self-centred and impractical nature because the end goal is more important than my ego. Even if I have to be an idiot, things still get done because I try my best to take responsibility for my shortcomings. You're just plain wrong about this one!
I don't think I am wrong (althought I hope so). Your team should teach you in the first place to shut up when you have to, and keep quiet.

And I'm not full of it...its nothing personal. I've just have enough of INFJ idiots, and sometimes I have to speak.
 
Alright then. I have nothing left to say to you and i'm not interested into taking this conversation/debate/whatever further.

Great. You are such a ...straight to the point person, so direct. I guess...
 
I don't think I am wrong (althought I hope so). Your team should teach you in the first place to shut up when you have to, and keep quiet.

And I'm not full of it...its nothing personal. I've just have enough of INFJ idiots, and sometimes I have to speak.

Keeping quiet is really hard, and sometimes I get super exhausted with bottling everything up. Talking about it is not about massaging my self-importance (although I feel that urge too), tbh it's been about coping with stress and feelings of alienation. Part of being on this forum for me is being able to express things when I feel like I have to speak about them. It's really really hard to cope with the constant pressure for perfect results against organisations and people who have much more resources at their disposal, and I am constantly aware of the opportunity cost of sticking to principle. I want to talk to people who get that, is that such an idiotic thing? I used to want to be regarded as a special snowflake, but now I just want the emotional support to get through all of this.
 
Lady Gaga is a INFJ girl.

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And BOOOM! Niels Bohr is the INFJ brilliant physicist! (now I know that every INTJ forum claims Niels Bohr one of their own, but don't listen to them, listen to me. If we are to listen to INTJs, even Einstein is a INTJ, which is obviously way of the mark)

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It's really really hard to cope with the constant pressure for perfect results against organisations and people who have much more resources at their disposal, and I am constantly aware of the opportunity cost of sticking to principle.

Results in what for example?
 
"Evil" Leaders

Adolf Hitler






"Think a thousand times before taking a decision... but after after taking a decision never turn back even if you get a thousand difficulties!!"

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

"If freedom is short of weapons, we must compensate with willpower."

"I have not come into this world to make men better, but to make use of their weaknesses."


The man who is universally regarded as the most evil person in history is not well understood. Such a result can only be the nature of such a dramatically important figure. Regardless, if one were to look closely at Hitler's mannerisms as a human being and not as a dictator, we can see that he is clearly an INFJ.

Like other figures on my list, Hitler was born in a small town, the town of Branau-am-Inn in Austria in 1889.

His father was strict and a drunkard, and showed similar traits to Hitler that he would develop later in life, such as holding militaristic traditions in high regard. Hitler had many arguments with his father, which he recounts in his part autobiography, part rambling political essay Mein Kampf. When his father died, Adolf was natually upset, but he was much more upset when his mother Klara who he was very close to died. Had his mother not died when Hitler was at such a young and impressionable age, it is likely many of the negative traits he later displayed in all their ugliness to the world would never have surfaced.

Adolf was a sickly child, and had several older brothers and sisters, most of whom died from illness when Adolf was still young.

From memory, Hitler's father Alois wanted him to get a job in the Austrian bureaucracy, but Hitler was insistent on becoming an artist (a painter, in fact. Many of his paintings can be seen today. He was pretty good, except his drawing of faces was miserable).

Hitler's application to the Vienna Art Academy was, however, rejected, and the poor Adolf sold postcards with his paintings on them to make a living before war broke out in 1914.

***

Upon the breakout of the First World War in 1914, Hitler rushed into Bavaria to join the Imperial German Army. He was utterly infatuated by Germany and German culture and despised the Hapsburg monarchy in Austria where he was born. Drinking with his friends in beer halls, he always sung "Deutschland uber Alles" instead of "Heil dir im Siegerkranz"; he was not a huge fan of the German monarchy either.

Hitler served as a runner, delivering notes between front line posts in France - a very dangerous task. For his bravery he was awarded, I believe, two Iron Crosses, and obviously took this gift from Germany very seriously. During the war he was injured by an artillery shell and by chlorine gas - a large number of theories, mostly unsubstantiated, have emerged regarding Hitler's WW1 experiences. One I think had it that Hitler's testicle was removed by a Jewish doctor (that one is obviously a joke). Needless to say the gas left an impression on him as a dangerous weapon.

Adolf was shattered by the defeat of Germany in 1918. His inferior extroverted perceiving function, Se, did not allow him to understand properly that Germany was losing and probably had little chance of winning the war in the first place. He began to grow more resentful of society and soon, he picked up on (not invented!) the common myth at the time that Jews in Germany had somehow (it was never really explained, being just a way to blame someone for their military incompetence) "stabbed in the back" German soldiers.

Soon after the war, Hitler was employed by the German government - now a very free and democratic Republic - to spy on radical groups. His distaste for communists and communism grew here, but he soon left the state when he found Anton Drexler's German Worker's Party. Hitler joined as member number 7 after a fiery speech against Bavarian unification against Austria was noticed by Drexler. Hitler soon began rallying larger and larger rallies up to 2000 people, when Drexler decided to merge the party with another minor party. Hitler was furious and threatened to resign if he wasn't made leader. Drexler, realizing the party was nothing without Hitler, accepted.

A few years later in 1925 the party, now renamed the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) or Nazi Party for short, with the Aryan symbol of a swastika on a white disk over a red flag as its emblem, began under Hitler an attempt to seize power via a march similar to Mussolini's March on Rome in 1922. The plan was never going to work: Hitler's party simply did not have enough popular and military support for it to become a reality. The "Beer Hall Putch" was a failure, its leaders arrested and Hitler thrown into jail, where Hitler after a passionate speech in favour of German nationalism was given a very easy sentence, and comfortable conditions in jail. He wrote Mein Kampf there and prepared to win power democratically upon his release.






Above: The Putschists March

*****


After being released from prison Hitler was one goal: to win over the hearts and minds of the German people by any means necessary. His mini-cabinet in waiting consisting of Joeseph Goebbels (ENFJ) Heinrich Himmler (ISFJ) and Hermann Goering (ESTP) were to be - especially Goebbels - his instruments of success.

With Goebbels' smart slogans like "Hitler uber Deutschland" (made while Hitler was famous for travelling in a plane when no other politician did) the support of the NSDAP steadily grew, election by election, until it reached a massive breakthrough after the Great Depression of 1929. The depression made millions of people unemployed, and most of these people - who did not care or agree with Hitler's racist and militaristic policies - saw in him an opportunity for work.

In 1933 he was appointed chancellor by the old general Hindenburg, who was dying, and later in 1933 the Nazis finally managed to secure a majority in the Reichstag ... almost. With vague promises Hitler secured the support of conservative and reactionary parties, and passed the Enabling act, made under the pretense of protecting Germany from a non-existent communist threat after a fire in the parliament had been started a few months earlier. Soon the Nazis swept away or transformed every aspect of German life, including education, military, politics and social freedoms which were vastly restricted.

[video=youtube;5tGKfIJwrh4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tGKfIJwrh4[/video]

Above: Hitler's first speech as Chancellor. Do you see the INFJ in him?


Two important things happened in 1934. Firstly, the Night of the Long Knives, where Hitler purged the Nazi party of its more radical, left wing element, the SA, which he feared as only a paranoid dictator really could as a threat to his own power. Secondly Hindenburg, who was still President of Germany, died. Hitler held a totally pre-determined election where the offices of Chancellor and President would be merged into a new office, "Fuhrer und Reichskanzler", which was, of course, to be taken up by him.

In 1935, the Saar territory occupied by France after WW1 was retaken with minimal and wimpy protests from the French government.

In 1936, the demilitarised zone of the Rhineland was also taken by Hitler. With again, minimal protest from Britain and France.

Around this time Germany had been totally transformed. New discriminatory laws against Jews were in place. It was illegal to be a member of a party other than the Nazi party, and a Nazi, pro-German militarist curriculum was thoroughly enfored in the education system.

However, millions of people were also now in work, even if it was only simple labour, as Hitler took credit for his predecessors' construction projects such as the Autobahn which is still used today. This, along with annual, huge, propagandistic Nuremburg rallies made Hitler more and more popular over time, although he probably never had the support of a majority of Germans until 1940 when France was defeated.

(Other Hitler creations which survive to this day include the Volkswagen, or "People's Car")

Hitler began to transform into the dictator we would see later in the war. He spent more time and state funds on the military than anything else, and before long, the military was a huge, modern creation with many motorised vehicles and modern aircraft. Genius army organisers like Guderian would help Germany win battles in the years to come. When the 100,000 man limit imposed by the Treaty of Versailles was broken, nobody said a word.

Hitler was much liked by most of Europe and in the USA as a modern reformer - back in those days, the negative connotations of dictators hadn't really emerged (Hitler would certainly assist with that). His rapid expansion of the military was however viewed with alarm in the governments of the UK and France.

In 1938, Hitler annexed Austria. Italian troops had earlier stopped a German annexation attempt, but this time Mussolini was Hitler's ally, not rival, and did nothing to stop the move. In a referendum 98 or so % or Austrians voted to become a part of Germany.

Later that year Hitler decided to radically change his foreign policy. No longer would Germany meekly expand, but Hitler knew a war was coming and wanted to get as close as possible to the war with as much territory as possible. So, he started agitating the German minority in the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia, and soon a meeting in Munich was called between France, Italy, Britain and Germany. After a period of tension, the leaders agreed to secede the Sudetenland to Germany and Hitler got his way while Chamberlain promised "peace in our time." It was not a prediction that was to hold up.

In March 1939, the German army was over 2 million men strong and had thousands of modern tanks and aircraft. Hitler decided to swallow up the rest of Czechoslovakia which he described as a "spear" sticking into Germany by supporting a nationalist uprising in Slovakia while moving into the rest of the country. Official protests were lodged by Britain and France but again they did nothing. Hitler's empire was never to grow larger in peacetime again.

Finally the Allies had had enough. They decided in mid 1939 to guarantee the independence of Poland and thus secure it against any future attack. Hitler thought the Allies were bluffing, and made territorial demands to Poland in August, demanding the German-majority city of Danzig (Gdansk in Polish) and a rail corridor from the enclave of East Prussia to the rest of Germany. Poland steadfastly and bravely refused.

Meanwhile Hitler performed his greatest diplomatic stroke of genius by signing a "pact with the Devil" ie. the Stalin-ruled Soviet Union and dividing Poland and other states between them.

Hitler thought the Allies wouldn't risk a Second World War, but his call on the weakness of the Allied will was wrong, and after refusing to withdraw after the invasion began on September 1st, Britain declared war. Two days later France followed suit. The reaction was shock and surprise in the Nazi cabinet and in the German public. Ribbentrop, the "arrogant poseur and fool" (his own mother's words!) who was serving as the foreign minister at the time, had assured Hitler that the Allies would never go to war over Danzig. When news of the declaration of war reached Berlin, Hitler exclaimed angrily "What now??" to Ribbentrop.

Here is Chamberlain's declaration of war speech. I found it quite sad. Someone noticed how tired he sounds.

Neville Chamberlain's (ISFJ) Declaration of War Speech

[video=youtube;rtJ_zbz1NyY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtJ_zbz1NyY[/video]

more to come soon...
 
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I just read something about Hitler in a Canadian history magazine that I thought was very interesting. It is a description of Hitler from a meeting Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King had with him in 1937.

'He smiled very pleasantly and indeed has a sort of appealing and affectionate look in his eyes. My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good. His eyes impressed me most of all. There was a liquid quality about them, which indicate keen perception and profound sympathy...One could see how particularly humble folk would come to have a profound love for the man. As I talked to him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc.'

As much as I dislike the idea that Hitler would have been an INFJ I certainly can see it. That description sounds pretty INFJ to me.

Here's more about how Mackenzie King felt about Hitler:
'King believed that Hitler embodied the spirit of a Wagnerian Norse god, and that Hitler was guiding his people to triumph. He believed that it was his own higher mission to lead Hitler to peace, and this actually affected Canada’s relations with Hitler. While King disagreed with Nazism and the oppression of Jews, he wrote “the world will yet come to see a very great man-mystic in Hitler…[Hitler] – the peasant – will rank some day with Joan of Arc among the deliverers of his people.”

By the way, Mackenzie King is considered a very eccentric Prime-Minister who made many of his important decisions by consulting his dead mother or other dead people, sometimes using a Ouija board.
 
He smiled very pleasantly and indeed has a sort of appealing and affectionate look in his eyes. My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good. His eyes impressed me most of all. There was a liquid quality about them, which indicate keen perception and profound sympathy...One could see how particularly humble folk would come to have a profound love for the man. As I talked to him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc.'

The eyes he is describing are "INFJs eyes". I get the impression that the INFJs eyes "flow" inside back and forth, exactly like water, like something liquid. Not all INFJs have those kind of eyes, but the ones that do have it, they can look very impressive, very different, very "eye caching". My current boss from work, is a INFJ who has those kind of eyes. When I talk closely with him, its amazing. I just never bore to observe the motion of his eyes.
 
Can an INFJ answer me from experience with their own mind as to whether the quote "Think a thousand times before taking a decision... but after after taking a decision never turn back even if you get a thousand difficulties!!" holds any relevance? Hitler was very stubborn and in the face of obvious failure often persisted with his ideas.
 
Can an INFJ answer me from experience with their own mind as to whether the quote "Think a thousand times before taking a decision... but after after taking a decision never turn back even if you get a thousand difficulties!!" holds any relevance? Hitler was very stubborn and in the face of obvious failure often persisted with his ideas.

Nope that doesn't sound very INFJ to me at all

That kind of pig headedness in the face of all else sounds more like an ENTJ or INTJ to me

I'd go ENTJ

Also this idea:

“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”....would appall INFJ's as would this:

"I have not come into this world to make men better, but to make use of their weaknesses."

These statements sound ANTI-INFJ


Also Lady ga ga is not an INFJ.....that's one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. Personally i believe most INFJ's would be very turned off by Ga ga's superficiality. But then i'm not suprised to hear Lucy say something like that as he has got his types mixed up lol
 
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“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”....would appall INFJ's as would this:

"I have not come into this world to make men better, but to make use of their weaknesses."

These statements sound ANTI-INFJ

Would they appall an evil INFJ? I don't think they would. If you put yourself into his shoes maybe you'll understand what I mean. Most people aren't evil. Especially most feeling types. Just as "The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do." (-Stalin) would appall most ENTJ's, as the three ENTJ's I know are very strongly in favour of democracy.
 
Would they appall an evil INFJ? I don't think they would. If you put yourself into his shoes maybe you'll understand what I mean. Most people aren't evil. Especially most feeling types. Just as "The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do." (-Stalin) would appall most ENTJ's, as the three ENTJ's I know are very strongly in favour of democracy.

No if he is behaving like that he is not an INFJ, he is something else

If you look at the world around you it should be clear to you that you don;t need to look far to find types that are incredibly insensitive to the rest of humanity; they are not INFJ's
 
What makes you think INFJ's can't possibly be evil? Anyone can be.

If you go back to the thread and read through everything i've said i've set out my stall pretty clearly regarding this issue

There are currents that run through society....lets call them the jedi and the sith so that we can help our imaginations get a handle on this concept

I'm not saying INFJ's are not capable of doing bad things they can do bad things but they are not of the dark current

Incidentally though...how much do you know about the history of germany and the history of the jews?

Are you aware of the occult dimension to world affairs? For example do you know who prints the dollar bills? Do you know why those people have put an eye in a pyramid on the dollar bill? Do you know what that symbol signifies or do you think they just chose a symbol from random from a catalogue and liked the look of that one so they put it there?

Who do you think those people are?
 
First of all I think you're a conspiracy theorist who chooses to look at the least simple and least likely explanation as the cause of things.

Secondly I know quite a bit about the history of Germany and the Jews.

"Are you aware of the occult dimension to world affairs?"

There's no such dimension. You're just making it up.

Also, you say that INFJ's forgive and forget in regards to revenge, but what Hitler did wasn't just based on revenge. Sure, he wanted to get back at France and the Jews for losing WW1 (the Jews contributed to that in his warped mind) but he also wanted to persecute heaps of other groups that had nothing to do with revenge.

Also, I know John Howard who was prime minister of my country, Australia, never forgive or forgave his political opponents. He got shafted in the 80's and when he finally came to power in 1997 he got his revenge. He was an ESTP and since that is the shadow of an INFJ it's entirely possible that Hitler could have done the same.
 
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First of all I think you're a conspiracy theorist who chooses to look at the least simple and least likely explanation as the cause of things.

Not true

Think about it....the most simple explanation is that a cabal is causing many of the problems. Its YOU who is believeing a more complex view

Secondly I know quite a bit about the history of Germany and the Jews.

"Are you aware of the occult dimension to world affairs?"

There's no such dimension. You're just making it up.

If you do not know about the nazis occult roots them you do NOT know much about the history of germany and the jews

Also, you say that INFJ's forgive and forget in regards to revenge, but what Hitler did wasn't just based on revenge. Sure, he wanted to get back at France and the Jews for losing WW1 (the Jews contributed to that in his warped mind) but he also wanted to persecute heaps of other groups that had nothing to do with revenge.

Those 'other groups' such as the communists were linked to the jews

Also, I know John Howard who was prime minister of my country, Australia, never forgive or forgave his political opponents. He got shafted in the 80's and when he finally came to power in 1997 he got his revenge. He was an ESTP and since that is the shadow of an INFJ it's entirely possible that Hitler could have done the same.

Or he just wasn't an INFJ

You see once again you are trying to complicate things by trying to fit a square peg in a round hole

You have to make all these mental acrobatics to try and make your theory work

If you look at ENTJ leaders like napoleon they also believe in their own sense of destiny and they also cast themselves in the role of saviour of their people

[h=2]ENTJ — The "Chief"[/h] ENTJ Chiefs are natural and decisive leaders. They are analytical, efficient and hard working. They live in the world of ideas and have a great ability to debate. Their goal-oriented and self-confident nature enables them to take charge. They thrive on achievement.
 
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